Can subs block movement, lol?


  • Moderators

    So I play revised so little that I have no idea how things work.
    So in my game now with Bayder he was nice enough to let me edit something but I still am not sure what the rule is.

    According to this: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/TripleA#Version_2_rules

    The basic rule is that Subs cannot block.

    Yet in this engine they do block in v2 but not in v3?

    So what is the thing? Can subs block or not in revised like in ToC?

    🙏 thx


  • Moderators Admin

    @Ondis other way around Ondis Subs do not block in v3 in v2 they block and in v2 all those trannies are fodder. Thus why v3 came about. No Admiral in history would send trannies to defend his capital ships! Sadly most play v2. GLHF!


  • Moderators Admin

    @Ondis To be blunt! It is a terrible map I have never understood why it is so popular. That being said it is what it is...


  • Moderators

    AH yeah I mean thats what I meant. But can someone edit that then in the wiki? Or maybe I can edit it. Like it should be in the v2 section that it differs from what is listed under "basic rules".

    Yeah I will make an account later and add that then.


  • Moderators Admin

    @Ondis Regarding the page you linked, at its current state:

    Can move past hostile ships but does not block hostile ships.

    This, written in the "Basic Units" section, is wrong, as V1 and V2 rules (comprising LHTR) non-submerged submarines fully block every other ship that is not a submarine too.

    Likewise, non-submerged v2 submarines impede naval bombardment, loading onto transports and successfully offloading outta transports too (while v3 ones don't), exactly like a battleship would.

    Simply stated, being a submarine in Revised is always an advantage, except only that you cannot hit air units (which might be an advantage too).


  • Moderators

    Appreciate the clarification gents, cheers. If you can add it to the wiki otherwise i will at a later date


  • Moderators

    @Ondis test out the different maps offline to fully understand subs and how they behave in different versions, some players, like prastle, only play with one sub version, i play using both and it isnt as confusing as you would think, just takes some getting used to.


  • Moderators

    @prastle no maps are "terrible", it is always good to have options(maps).


  • Moderators Admin

    @SilverBullet Gigglez … Ok I guess it is just old like when I was `13 🙂


  • Moderators Admin

    @Ondis If you would like to update the wiki for all maps not just v2 that would be AWESOME!


  • Admin

    It's certainly a dream of mine we'll have a table that lists per rule set what behaviors are what, whether subs block, if transports can be selected as casualties, if bombard casualties fire back, etc..

    This is perhaps the best place for that wiki page: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/wiki/Game-Rule-Sets, not too much investment has been put in yet towards this, but it'll be sweet to get there.


  • Moderators Admin

    @LaFayette Just in case, I'll point out that something like this would entail something like a table of about one hundred rows (maybe even two hundreds with the original Europe and Pacific (the non-1940 series)), many of which would be very wordy and still hardly understandable by anyone not already deep enough into the rules. The rules sets have, between each other, a lot of small different details.


  • Admin

    I don't suspect it would be quite that complex. Wordiness can be solved. In any case the code to implement all the rules is going to be more complex than any such table, without the table we are lacking a specification to be sure the code does everything correctly (which leads to our current state where it's difficult to modify any feature in triplea because so much is jumbled together and nonsensical and lacking a clear specification). Regardless I don't think such speculation is argument against even trying.


  • Moderators Admin

    @LaFayette To be clear, I was referring to the proper rules, notwithstanding the TripleA behaviour. The list would be a lot shorter and simpler (relatively!) if one would document only the TripleA behaviours (as TripleA ignores a lot of the arguably many small differences between rulesets). However, that would be to some extent an exercise in guessing, as TripleA has a v1 default that is not even fully consistent, then has a v2 general property that I'm not aware is document anywhere what is actually doing (so, unless I'm missing something, only a developer can know what that property is doing), then has no general property to tell v2 LHTR apart, then has no general property (aside a fake one for v3) to tell apart the behaviours of whatever from v3 onwards. So, I think the only possible way for anyone to do it would be by looking at the basic games and just document how each happens to work for some TripleA version, which, at least for a non-developer, would pretty much mean taking all those "main" games and playtest everything, see what happens.

    I'm not trying to discourage anyone to do it and certainly it would be something good to have. Even better it would be good to have three such lists, one for the rulesets as TripleA enforces them, one for the rulesets as they should rather be and another one for the differences between these two lists of differences.


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