When should support be allocated?



  • I'm looking at the support code and I'm wondering when support should be allocated between units. Here's a few examples of what I'm curious about:

    1. If a supporting unit dies before its supported unit fires, does the supported unit still get the support?

    Here's some examples of how this might occur in a battle:
    a. Fighter has an attack 3 and supports Tactical Bombers with a +1 attack. Tactical Bomber has an attack 3. Both Fighter and Tactical Bomber attack a territory where there is an AA gun that fire at both of them. The AA gun hits and the player removes the Fighter. When the Tactical Bomber fires, should it fire with an attack 3 or an attack 4?
    b. Patrol Boat has an attack 1 and supports a Cruiser with a +1 attack. Cruiser has an attack 3. Both Patrol Boat and Cruiser attack a territory where there is a Submarine. The Submarine gets a First Strike/Sneak Attack and the player removes the Patrol Boat. When the Cruiser fires, should it fire with an attack 3 or an attack 4?

    1. If a supported unit dies before it gets to fire, does the supporting unit get to support a different unit?

    Here's some example of how this might occur in battle:
    a. Fighter has an attack 3 and supports Tactical Bombers with a +1 attack. Tactical Bomber has an attack 3. A Fighter and 2 Tactical Bombers attack a territory where there is an AA gun that fire at both of them. The AA gun hits and the player removes the supported Tactical Bomber. When the other Tactical Bomber fires, should the Fighter be able to support it even though it was supporting the dead Tactical Bomber first?
    b. Patrol Boat has an attack 1 and supports a Cruiser with a +1 attack. Cruiser has an attack 3. A Patrol Boat and 2 Cruisers attack a territory where there is a Submarine. The Submarine gets a First Strike/Sneak Attack and the player removes the supported Cruiser. When the other Cruiser fires, should the Patrol Boat be able to support it even though it was supporting the dead Cruiser first?

    (I know that removing the supported unit is a bad idea of the player but this is a just a simple example.)

    I, personally, think that at the start of a battle round, the support should be allocated among all of the living units. Then, as units die and are removed (through AA, targeted attacks, sneak attacks, first strikes, suicides, offense hits), the support is not re-allocated. When the next round starts, the support is again allocated. So my answers to the questions would be:
    1a - tactical bomber still has support so it fires with a 4
    1b - cruiser still has support so it fires with a 4
    2a - the living tactical bomber gets no support as the fighter was already supporting the dead tactical bomber
    2b - the living cruiser gets no support as the patrol boat was already supporting the dead living cruiser.

    So, how should support be allocated?



  • @Trevan I would say that supports should be set at the beginning of the round. Mainly because what if there are first strike things that are supported. They could get support, fire, die in the other sides return first strike damage, and then the unit supporting them could support something else if supports get recalculated for the main combat.


  • Admin

    I might have a different perspective, support ought to be when dice are rolled. The interesting part is casualties count as if they were still in the battle.

    For the PT boat example:

    • 1 PT supporting 1 cruiser vs 1 Sub
    • First strike phase: Sub hits, knocking out PT boat
    • PT boat is removed
    • 1 cruiser now remains and rolls, it does not get support

    Similar example for AA:

    • 1 stuka and 1 infantry vs 1 aa and 1 infantry (World at War, stuka supports infantry with +1)
    • AA fire phase: AA hits knocking out the Stuka
    • Stuka is removed from the battle
    • Main combat phase for attacker: 1 attacking infantry rolling, does not get support

    So generally, support should be calculated when the units are rolling their dice.



  • I should clarify, I was only saying that i think the supports should be determined at the beginning. Like if all the infantry dies during the targeted attack phase, i don't think artillery support should switch to a mech infantry (or something else it can support).

    Whether the supporting unit support still happens if it dies, I can't decide yet.



  • @LaFayette what about the situation where a unit supports two units and one of those units fire during the first strike phase and the other fires during the "normal" phase? Say, the patrol boat gives support to both subs and cruisers. Can the patrol boat give support to both sub and cruiser in the same battle round? Or can it only give support to one of them? And what if it gave support to the sub but then the support is killed during the first strike phase, should it then be able to give support to the cruiser? Basically, is the support re-allocated during each of the phases?


  • Admin

    @Trevan Support is computed at the start of a battle phase and is consumed whenever used.
    For example:

    • Support Setup: PT boat gives 2 supports to either cruiser or a sub

    • Combat Scenario: 1 PT boat, 1 sub, 1 cruiser VS 1 sub and 1 cruiser

    • attacker first strike phase: sub rolls with support, one support from PT boat is consumed (let's say attacker sub misses)

    • defender first strike phase: sub rolls, let's say it hits and PT boat is removed

    • attacker main combat phase: cruiser rolls, there are no available supports for it, it is not supported

    Alternate scenario:

    • Combat Scenario: 1 PT boat, 1 sub, 2 cruiser VS 1 sub and 1 cruiser
    • attacker first strike phase: sub rolls with support, one support from PT boat is consumed (let's say attacker sub misses)
    • defender first strike phase: sub rolls, let's say it hits and sub is removed
    • attacker main combat phase: 2 cruiser rolls, PT boat has one support left, only one cruiser is supported


  • @LaFayette Ok, so would this algorithm do what you are thinking?

    1. Beginning of the round, allocate support among all the units.
    2. At the end of each phase, if a unit that is giving support dies and is removed from battle, remove its support from the units it was supporting.
    

  • Admin

    @Trevan It could be more complex.

    Let's say we have an "admiral boat" that gives support to any 1 other boat.

    In that case let's say we have 1 sub vs 2 cruisers and an admiral boat. The sub gets a first strike hit, one of the cruisers removed. At this point the support of the admiral boat is not assigned, nor used.

    In contrast, let's say the support was assigned already, in that case you could select as casualty the boat that was receiving the support.

    I think that implies the logic is more:

    • when units are about to roll, they consume any available supports.
    • available supports are subtracted from any supporting units
    • if a unit is removed from the battle board, it can no longer give support


  • @LaFayette So what about this?

    1. Beginning of the round, allocate support among all the units.
    2. At the end of each phase, if a unit that is giving support dies and is removed from battle, remove its support from the units it was supporting.
    3. At the end of each phase, if a supported unit dies and is removed from battle and it hasn't rolled, free up its support and see if it can be given to another unit.
    

  • Admin

    Sounds right, though I think this is a simpler way to think about it:

    • before a unit rolls, it looks to see if there is an available support, if so, it consumes that support.

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