Over the Top- new WWI mod

[panzerman]

@schulz
Turkey today

[djabwana]

@panzerman all of this looks GREAT! However, the formatting came through kind of messed up so I'm having a hard time reading it. Were you trying to attach a document?

[GenerationKILL]

@panzerman
Hello I'm Danny. I'm the designer and visual artist of the map. My buddy @djabwana is the programmer and we in the midst of wrapping up Version 2. It includes several map changes as well as an extensive overhaul in aesthetics. We've been play testing it for a few months and we believe it's about as balanced as it will get. I have been very eager to wrap the project up so we can move on to newer projects (however many years that may take). But I appreciate that our game has taken some attention by fellow WWI enthusiast. As for the old version it's basically in the recycle bin at this point, so if anyone would like to bring new house rules or changes then it is best to leave it for V2 as that will be the official version. I think that our final iteration has ironed out all the kinks and will provide players with a much better gameplay.

We have had a nice base set of players that we've invited over the years to playtest our game but we are always looking for more. I know that not everyone has the advantage of including human players for triplea, but this game is basically meant for human interaction and not AI. It's unfortunate but that's how it is. The AI does not operate well with our games concepts especially with the inclusion of trains and munitions and dual attacking rounds. The ideal player count for this game is 5. Three for Triple Entente and two for central powers.

[panzerman]

@generationkill well my ideas house rules and mod can be used for new game, its historical and has good unit functions like battleships not hunting down battleships etc. I submitted them. I have similar house rules for tww as well.

[panzerman]

@djabwana
Over the Top House Rules mod indicates changes. Austria does not have to be defeated first. Ideally, infantry should defend at a 2.
USA factory changes back to America once enters war so that you can build planes. If that area is occupied USA may place one plane in Paris instead. USA may not attack German ships until they join but may transport troops however Germany can sink but cannot be escorted by USA destroyers.
Shelling restrictions and at starting entrenched coastal guns:
A unit shelling must stop its movement. France and Russia may pick where they want their starting port coastal gun. Only coastal shelling of Shipyards is allowed plus you can target the one costal artillery. This means the defender has to pick the one coastal artillery excluding bunkers. Shells are also limited per number of units amphibiously or coast invading units, but you can use leftover to shell other targets. There are no free shots from entrenched gun against land and only 2 shells for naval, but you cannot shell subs even with a destroyer. Only 1 entrenched gun at sea ports are considered coastal except the starting Ottoman one. Rail guns cannot shell naval targets. You cannot shell mines unless you have at least one ship or sub that investigates.
Air & Strategic raids of rail, airfield and factories or combination of both
Air superiority involves the number of attacking and defending air units. The first hits count towards planes and zeps per number of fighters on each side or if you play dice, it’s easy to see. You may pick a lower value zep over a fighter. At least one infantry is required to attack with artillery so you can have 1 guy and 20 artilleries however you can conquer an empty territory with artillery alone or if you are rescuing you capital.
Fighters and zeps only support artillery, not infantry, so you can only attack if you have artillery piece but this is not requirement with bomber. Or you could have one plane per artillery, player pick. You could also play like this with the artillery see below
Non-armored trains are considered captured and spoils of war. AA guns if alone get a one defense so edit them into a man. However, all defending air units including fighters, if caught alone, with defending units, get to escape up to range if attacking air is not in the mix. Planes do not get to defend bunkers alone; the bunker must have a land unit and the bunkers are considered captured.
When heavy bomber is achieved also put game on LL. The best way to do strategic raids is use Sweden and Norway territories to set this up and announce which raid you are doing. Edit in the attacking and defending targets both players intend to use including AA gun and factory before the 2nd combat phase. Then you will have to use edit move each plane and say if you want to bomb or attack. Retreat after one round and edit in the results including factory damage. You only have to edit out defending fighters if the same area is getting attacked and remember not the use the attacking planes twice. Question must be asked if defending player wants to scramble to bombing of factory or rail but if attacking airfield player has no choice.
The whole rail thing is very odd for instance, you can attack trains with fighters but the game will not let you defend them even with edit. So you could play that any defending fighters in defending areas can be used to defend rail but if area being simultaneously attacked a decision must be made. You will have to use the set up mentioned above for attacking defending planes and then regular play for attacking the rail and you can pick an unarmed trains first.
Sea shit
Submarines are picked last as casualties for both attacking and defending unless destroyers are involved. The easiest way to do this is once the game system tells you that you can submerge you must state picking Submarines last. In defending Submarines only situations, freighters, bombers, subs, and zeps and fighters can sink subs but you have to have a destroyer of course except for other subs. They get a one round and must submerge after first round even with paired with destroyer. You don’t have to submerge subs if attacker has no more destroyers just pick subs last.
If a destroyer or Freighters is not present, a free, 1 round only Sub sneak-attack is allowed. This means no hits from all the other ships count but you may edit pick a trannie as your casualty if applicable.
Troop-Transports, not Freighters, are only sunk per attacking ship or air so no more one sub killing 20 Troop-Transports. Edit surviving boats back into the same sea zone. They have to be picked last for defense unless attacking subs AND AIR ARE still in the mix. You may not bring them into battle unless beach landing plus it does not block so edit move past them. Freighters do block. Likewise unarmed trains must be picked last.
Harbor-Defenses do not defend against air units so edit them out if attacking with air only or if a combination of both, select naval units first as casualties. Harbor-Defenses block Submarine movement.

Other belligerents
Ottomans may only attack Russia and vice versa the first round but may combine fleets. Romania joins Russia turn 3 Bulgaria joins Germany turn 2. Upon Russia’s second round, the amount of Hungarian troops that were there, turn Russian with factory so you can buy for them and or reinforce but starts 3rd. Make sure all Austrian troops are out there by round 2.
Italy joins Allies turn 2 but CAN’T can be reinforced by France until 2nd round. If France combines fleet with Italy consider sz 30 still neutral, can’t be attacked or attack out of.
Greece remains neutral unless the Allies land a ground unit there starting turn 3. Additionally, the sea zones on both sides must be cleared. It turns French with Factory and starting game units that were British but make them French.
Arab uprising happens British Commonwealth round 3; 2 Entrenchments, 2 Cavalry and 1 Field-Artillery all BCW each in Hejaz, Al-Hawa and Oman. Additionally, a Factory in Oman. The Ottoman infantry there must be edited moved away to adjacent territory. The factory in Oman is removed is once conquered by and the brits can’t make ships. The commies do not get to share Russian tech.

[panzerman]

@djabwana one request outside of my house rules, don't make the railroad spots harder to find then the G spot giggidy. Hopefully my house rules have inspired you to make it more historical.

[djabwana]

We have just launched version 2.0 and it is now available for download!

@panzerman I think you have some great ideas but I mostly defer to @GenerationKILL on the historical rules and unit design. We did fix the sub rules and remove AA units altogether, as well as moving the rail zones to the "top" of the map so they are more easily selectable - I agree that selecting rail zones and the units in them is really tricky! Also, we added Lawrence of Ariabia and Bedouins for the Arab uprising.

Commies sharing Russia tech was an accident at first, but then we really liked it, because as the revolutionaries move closer to the capital, they are finding and using Russian units..

If there are any house rules that you have listed that are really annoying to implement with edit mode and you would love to have them just be base rules, please make an issue here: https://github.com/triplea-maps/over_the_top/issues/new and we'll see if we can integrate it into a future version.

[beelee]

@djabwana

Awesome !

I suggest updating the yaml to version 3 and do a PR. I will ping the thread at the A&A site with this.

Well done

Edit
Wow ! The Ocean looks Way Cool !

Western Front looks different too

You might want to list all the changes so there easy to see. I see you have them listed in the changelog but maybe a more in depth would be good for promo thread ?

Edit
Here the A&A thread if you want to promote it there as well
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/36205/over-the-top/2?_=1750731694330

Once again well done

[panzerman]

@djabwana awsome

[GenerationKILL]

@beelee It's not a perfect game, but it's a pretty game

[beelee]

@djabwana @GenerationKILL

Hi guys

You got a hit at the A&A site https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/36205/over-the-top/4?_=1751250888520

He's a very experienced and highly respected player so thought I'd ping you

[djabwana]

@beelee Thanks! I didn't know about those forums but I just responded there.

What do you mean by updating to YAML version 3?

[beelee]

@djabwana

right arm

yea so the yaml will let people who have already DL'd it know there's a new version. Any current DL will still give the latest.

https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/blob/master/triplea_maps.yaml#L2199

I have trouble with the search on yaml but you are L 2199

Change version number from 2 to 3. Have to be whole numbers when you change. Then do a PR and I or someone will merge it

[beelee]

Hi @djabwana

I didn't see your post over there. Maybe you have to join ? pita Idk

I'll link it again with a shot of his latest.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/36205/over-the-top/5?_=1751256293122

[djabwana]

@beelee Yes, I'm waiting for a moderator to approve my post, probably because I'm a new user.

I'll open that PR soon, will likely need to revise the game notes based on his feedback.

[beelee]

@djabwana

ah ok. He's on right now so i just pinge him the link here again lol

Edit
ahh I guess he's gone now

He was a playtester on the new North Africa game. Knows a lot of the wheels fwiw

[djabwana]

Here's what I had posted there:

@AndrewAAGamer Thank you so much for trying out our map!

Alas, yes, our map does not work well with AI because of the two combat moves with a “build” phase in between for the battleships to create the munitions. You do have to manually restrict your movement to not blitz like that to honor the intent. I don’t know of any other way to accomplish the munition mechanic in the TripleA engine, which is one of our favorite parts of this map, without causing issues like this.

Also, the AI doesn’t properly account for the defense effect of trenches. Again, I had to use rules that marked trenches as capturable infrastructure during the combat moves, so that undefended trenches can be captured, but then they switch back to “normal” defending units for combat. We humans can plug in a trenches value into the battle calculator, but the AI consistently underestimates the offense needed against territories with trenches.

So yes- unfortunately, due to the unique mechanics we implemented, I don’t think we can ever really fully support AI.

The victory conditions are either victory cities or economic victory based on the game options.

Thank you @beelee for alerting me to this thread!

[TheDog]

@djabwana
You can restrict the movement of units by step and switch them on & off, between steps, not just by turn as in 1888A Steam & Steel

eg (I have not played your game, so this will probably be wrong)
turn off all movement for none Battleships/Cruisers, Heavy Artillery, and Railguns
step Move Battleships/Cruisers, Heavy Artillery, and Railguns
turn on all movement for none Battleships/Cruisers, Heavy Artillery, and Railguns

Search go winter in the xml and apply the principles to different step phases of a turn
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4056/1888a-steam-steel-official-thread

Here is an overview, there are a lot of components, you will not them all

• Winter
  • Search go winter in the xml to see the components that make up how to use terrain effects and a dummy player
  • needs an allied dummy player, eg. winterp
  • define TT & SZ to be affected
  • define a new allied relationship eg winterr allows combat takes over in TT/SZ (oops has no go winter)
  • needs a WinterLand & WinterSea to be shown in the TT & SZ
  • define territoryEffect eg. Winter
  • Triggers to make it happen when you want it. Note -reset- has to redefine the TT/SZ when a TT/SZ changes effect

Hope this helps