WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE

ebbe · 6 Mar 2021, 23:08

Hej Triple A community:

A NEW map RELEASE !!!! found in the experimental section....

last year I had the time to make my first map on TripleA... starting as a absolute newby:
it is a WW2-setting combining elements from
Hepps & Verquins splendid work with my own concepts. I really like to have a lot of feedback , tips and suggestions....in this forum ...

ebbe · 6 Mar 2021, 22:31

A well worked out global map, with combined terrain effects, realistic seasonal winter, oil production and fuel usage

and decent player info screens....
this first version of the map has a historical approach;
in weapon development and political situations...

most players have their own special units and
some minors to command

ebbe · 6 Mar 2021, 23:18

victory cities can be besieged while partisans roar in historical notorious areas of resistance...in behind both allies and axis frontlines...

the map has a functioning callender that gives you sense of
time and preparations for arctic and nordic winter...

and cities have their own real city grid and overflow boxes above to place all units....

ebbe · 6 Mar 2021, 23:18

isolated axis or soviet fleet in closed waterbodies like black sea will surrender or selfdestruct when no longer reaching friendly harbours for supply...

Offensive and defensive Leadership tokens
can support your most essential battles or strategical spots around the globe,

ebbe · 6 Mar 2021, 22:38

neutral armies have a bit more own identity...
terrain type is shown in territory label as well as smooth in background relief...

propaganda and reinforcements are common when victory cities are coming under pressure... some territotries have
volunteers awaiting their "liberarion"to join you with units...

and notifications of weapon development and events supported by images...

and what took me lot of time but was essential element:
I wanted al units to be placed in order....
not spread around...
and it was interesting to work with sound effects and so...

anyway...enough spam!

special thanks for Verquin & Hepps & Beelee!
for inspiration ,feedback, suggestions and units creating and sharing....
and Dan & Lafayette & beelee for dragging me through Github as a overwhelmed newby ..

ebbe · 7 Mar 2021, 13:25

@ebbe Gathering all of your opinions, tips , feedback and bug reports for moving to next step.

I definately add 2 scenario's soon with harder Axis or Allies A.I. -opponents for those who find AI too small challenge.....

ebbe · 9 Mar 2021, 21:56

and no longer easy Neutral-country snatching without consequences... invading one country will truely upset its allied neutral neighbours....

also screens of diplomatic / strategic advices included..-->

Cernel · 11 Mar 2021, 09:01

Assuming English is not your first language (mine neither), I revised the intro:

Before:

Intro=<body><img src="intro.png"/> Welcome to Triple A's OIL & SNOW: (beta) In this historical oriented scenario you conquer with a focus on securing enough oil to fuel your units and how to deploy them wisely to make full advantage of various terrain-types. Prepare your operations with awareness of the winter cycle by checking the calender --------> Read more essential basic scenario info in the Notes-tab! ------- Starting point is April 1941: Greece is still unuccopied, the USSR respecting its treaties with Germany and Japan & the USA is not yet involved. __________________________________________________________________________________ Credits: Inspired by Veqryns' Global WW2 & Hepps' Total World Thanks to:Wc_Sumption & Belee 4 fixing the realistic Winter-Effect! Special thanks to HEPPS, who is pretty occupied with amazing new TripleA-games and still made time to share, reflect and even test!< my respect , that is the spririt --> & all support feedback from TripleA community. Game on! Disclaimer Copyrights images: I was careful in selecting copyright-free images for the notifications ifever is found out that an image used is however copyrighted, let me know (--> wodamn@protonmail.com) and I will remove it or if sufficient: label it with the right source link. </body>

After:

Intro=<body><img src="intro.png"/> Welcome to OIL & SNOW (beta) for TripleA In this historically oriented scenario, you ought to conquer with a focus on securing enough oil to fuel your units and on wisely deploying them to take advantage of the various terrain types. Take into account the winter cycle by checking the calender whilst preparing your operations. ----------> Refer to the Notes tab for more essential and basic scenario information! ----------- The starting point of the scenario is April 1941: Greece is not yet occupied, the USSR is respecting its treaties with Germany, and neither Japan nor the USA are involved in the war in Europe. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Credits: Inspired by Veqryn's Global WW2 & Hepps' Total World War. Thanks to: Wc Sumpton & Beelee for fixing the realistic Winter-Effect! Special thanks to HEPPS, who is pretty occupied with new amazing TripleA games and yet took time to share, to reflect and even to test! My respect: that is the spririt. & to all support and feedback from the TripleA community. Game on! Disclaimer: Although I was careful in selecting copyright-free images for the notifications, if any one of the images is found to be copyrighted, let me know (wodamn@protonmail.com), so I shall label it with the right source link if sufficient or else remove it. </body>

Especially since English is not my first language, I don't mind if someone points out something I suggested to change which he or she believes goes in the wrong direction (I know that saying "and yet" may be seen as bad grammar, and yet I used it because I assumed that emphasis was wanted there.).

Instead of saying "you ought to conquer", you can say "you are to conquer", "it is advantageous for you to conquer" or "it behoves/behooves you to conquer" and surely something else. I'm not sure what is better.

I don't think I would define as "Credits" something which has merely inspired me, so maybe you should change "Credits: Inspired by" to something telling that the game is using stuff from this or that if this is actually the case.

Talking about credits, I'm not sure that crediting Hepps is exhaustive.

ebbe · 11 Mar 2021, 21:00

@cernel said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

Intro=<body><img src="intro.png"/> Welcome to OIL & SNOW (beta) for TripleA In this historically oriented scenario, you ought to conquer with a focus on securing enough oil to fuel your units and on wisely deploying them to take advantage of the various terrain types. Take into account the winter cycle by checking the calender whilst preparing your operations. ----------> Refer to the Notes tab for more essential and basic scenario information! ----------- The starting point of the scenario is April 1941: Greece is not yet occupied, the USSR is respecting its treaties with Germany, and neither Japan nor the USA are involved in the war in Europe. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Credits: Inspired by Veqryn's Global WW2 & Hepps' Total World War. Thanks to: Wc Sumpton & Beelee for fixing the realistic Winter-Effect! Special thanks to HEPPS, who is pretty occupied with new amazing TripleA games and yet took time to share, to reflect and even to test! My respect: that is the spririt. & to all support and feedback from the TripleA community. Game on! Disclaimer: Although I was careful in selecting copyright-free images for the notifications, if any one of the images is found to be copyrighted, let me know (wodamn@protonmail.com), so I shall label it with the right source link if sufficient or else remove it. </body>

@Cernel : thanks for the ultimately correct input, and accepted ofcourse, implemented in 1.7 this weekend..

ebbe · 11 Mar 2021, 21:19

so it IS POSSIBLE to conquer STALINGRAD after all!

ebbe · 12 Mar 2021, 12:38

Focussing on **PRO ACTIVE NEUTRAL MINORS now

or at least: let them have a role in choosing sides or remaining neutral.
Like Turkey, with very interesting geographical position; when it chooses sides the black sea fleet may enter the mediterranean and opposite.

I will give the Turkish neutral start, but if attacked they join the opposing Alliance directly. Also there will be the possibility that they join either side by Chance Roll, with a more bigger Swap sides rate to the more victorious Alliance over time. Would be interesting for more "bigger"neutrals like Spain...Portugal.. Sweden, Argentina.. but then all with their own background and trigger-issues.... what you think?

@Schulz : Setup Turkey ok? I saw you have some knowledge on this topic in the forum.. they get some Flotilla to once involved and joing a side.. and east turkey Hills or Mountains as terrain?

Schulz · 12 Mar 2021, 15:24

@ebbe Considering realism, Western Turkey should be more valuable than Eastern Turkey.

Both Western and Eastern Turkey are mountainous regions.

In the spring 1941 Turkey was politially slighly pro-allies considered a German invasion on Turkey highly possible and located most of troops in the Western Turkey defensively. After the Germans occupied Greece and signed non-Aggression pact with Turkey, the political position shifted to total neutrality.

Turkey had armament agreements with UK which wanted to bring it the war on Allies side, but Turkey stated its army is not ready to even resist a possible German invasion.

Turkey was also major chromite supplyer of Germany between 1941-1944. There was absolutely zero chance Turkey joining Allies without being attacked by Axis first in this timeline.

Some Turanists groups wanted to join the war on Axis side but they mostly just wanted to fight with the Soviets not with the Western Allies, the situation could be similar to Finland. I think there was a change they could succeeded had the Germans won in N.Africa and Stalingrad.

I think Turkey could join the war on Axis side in 1941-1942 with a government chance. It could definitely led a German victory on the Cauasus and anti-Soviet insurgencies among Azerbaijani Turks which could further weakened the Soviet position on the Caucasus which would cause total collapse of Persian corridor.

ebbe · 12 Mar 2021, 16:38

@schulz Okej thanks... on Turkey: so mountainous both... west/east PU : 2/1 I think Fortifications in the west , maybe outdated but numerous enough to be displayed.... no armour? light Fighter and light art. should do it and some serious manpower? and more troop west then east... clear..... I give them a slight more Axis "swap" chance in 41/42 and if allies gain global ground more allies focus, if joining after all.. I make it a 20% chance without being attacked.... and join opposite Alliances if attacked by one of the Alliances overall... ok
I think the Dardanelles canal-Black sea-mediterrean connection is an interesting twist in strategy when occuring....or by remaining a possibility during gameplay.....

And for Portugal I propose starting with like a true neutral , slightly more swap chance towards Allies... after 1942 and a Azores use of airbase Nr.4 (October 1943,) so Azore switch to cooperative Neutral_Allies then & add free airbase unit.

Schulz · 12 Mar 2021, 17:25

@ebbe Both Eastern Turkey is even more mountainous with higher altitude. But seems like altitude is not represented it is appropriate to make both mountainous.

Yes 2/1 PUs is more realistic. There was a defensive line called "Cakmak Line" to slow down a possible German advance if they had attacked Turkey via Bulgarian border but it became totally obsolete when the Germans occupied Greece since the line wasn't covering Turkish-Greek border. After that the bulk of troops moved to doorsteps of Istanbul from Cakmak Line.

Turkey had small amount of tanks and fighters but overall the army was in poor shape and there was a defict of war materials however it had still decent manpower pool, a small industrial power plus veteran commanders of WWI and Turkish War of Indepence.

I think Turkey overall was just slighly stronger than Romania in WWII.

The European part of Turkey so small to represent but making it its own territory with Dardanelle could make the situation more interesting.

Portugal had always good relations with the UK. It might be set up as slighly pro-Allies.

ebbe · 14 Mar 2021, 11:35

@schulz

Okej: Turkey adapted: starts neutral, but there is allways the chance they will join Allies or Axis throughout the game
(by a few chance rolls & bigger chance if this Alliance is performing well in conquering Victory cities )
and by this opening the Dardanelles for the Navy from and towards Black Sea... which I think is strategically interesting

Once part of the war, units will switch to active, coloured units and will be commanded by British or Germans depending on Alliance-choice.
If joining Allies the relation with USSR remains Neutral due to old tensions .

Example: Turkish troops are activated after Turkey joining the Axis...
and receive GArrison Reinforcements.
Suddenly the Italian Navy appears in Black Sea supported by Turkish Flotilla wiping out the Soviet Black Sea Fleet. . Soviets also trouble with Chechen Partisans but remain in control of Crimea. East Turkey will be partisan active territory once occupied by opposing Alliance player. Anyway... works fine?
I even saw A.I. all Turky (re)conquering Caucasus... splendid! ;

Next step to get a few more "Pro active Undecided Minors" :
I was thinking of: Portugal, Spain.. Sweden for example, could declare war to russians... if Russians will take Finland and or North Norway?
brasil and Mexico will allways join Allies
while Argentina will side with Axis if other South American Pro Axis countries are harrassed by Allies.

Also wanne make a swap for Italy If 2 of its 3 mainland Home-territories'are occupied...

Schulz · 14 Mar 2021, 11:57

@ebbe the Axis could still reinforce the Black Sea by using Danube River. Though not sure if it was wide enough to transport any kind of warships. Also not sure if all Axis Submarines were be able to sneake the Black Sea via staits.

Western Turkey was way more populated and industrialized than the Eastern one. If there will be partisan activity in Eastern Turkey, i can see no reason why wouldn't it be in the Western Turkey as well.

Realistically I don't think Spain and Portugal would declare war on Russia just because Finland and N.Norway were occupied. If they are completely occupied then it means the Russians already took back all of its original territories since Finnish front was the least important front for Russians.

It would definitely worsened the relations between Russia and Sweden but still not enough casus belli plus nations wouldn't want to join wars on loser side.

I think there is no scenario which Portugal joins the Axis.

Spain could have joined the Axis only if she was confident that Britain is already about to lose the war and significant German assist will be ensured. Spanish entry into the war could led Portugese entry into the war as well.

Spanish entry also could led conflicts between Spain and Vichy France over the control of African colonies.

Also iirc both Spain and the Soviets (until the Barbarossa) harbored the u-boats.

I have no knowlegde about Mexico and Brazil in WWII. Maybe they would delay their entance on the war if Germany decided not operate u-boats near of these countries?

The Italian situation is complicated maybe @Cernel could correct me.

I can't understand why Mussolini was so unguarded when it became appear that there was no way to stop upcoming Allies invasion of Italy without heavy German assistance which they already refused to fight for controlling Southern Italy and start to suspect Italian loyalty to Axis. At this point, Germans were interested in controlling Northern and Central Italy whatever Mussolini wanted or not.

It is not clear for me would Mussolini still be out voted and arrested even if Allies failed to invade Italy? Or couldn't Mussolini be so unguarded and prevent Italy switching side?

There was already heavy German presence in Italy and Italian occupied territories when the armstice signed and the Germans just disarm the Italian army then rearmed when Italian Social Republic created.

Turning Italy to Allies after losing Sicily and S.Italy is realistic but I don't think it was an unavoidable outcome. Nations may surrender without losing any land or not surrender even after losing %95 of lands. It really depends on parameters.

I think it would be more realistic turning Italy Allies with a possibility rather than automatically turning it Allies when southern one get occupied by the Allies.

Hepps · 14 Mar 2021, 13:58

@ebbe How do the Minor Neutrals produce new units?

Hepps · 14 Mar 2021, 14:44

@ebbe said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

@schulz

Okej: Turkey adapted: starts neutral, but there is allways the chance they will join Allies or Axis throughout the game
(by a few chance rolls & bigger chance if this Alliance is performing well in conquering Victory cities )
and by this opening the Dardanelles for the Navy from and towards Black Sea... which I think is strategically interesting

Once part of the war, units will switch to active, coloured units and will be commanded by British or Germans depending on Alliance-choice.
If joining Allies the relation with USSR remains Neutral due to old tensions .

Example: Turkish troops are activated after Turkey joining the Axis...
and receive GArrison Reinforcements.
Suddenly the Italian Navy appears in Black Sea supported by Turkish Flotilla wiping out the Soviet Black Sea Fleet. . Soviets also trouble with Chechen Partisans but remain in control of Crimea. East Turkey will be partisan active territory once occupied by opposing Alliance player. Anyway... works fine?
I even saw A.I. all Turky (re)conquering Caucasus... splendid! ;

Next step to get a few more "Pro active Undecided Minors" :
I was thinking of: Portugal, Spain.. Sweden for example, could declare war to russians... if Russians will take Finland and or North Norway?
brasil and Mexico will allways join Allies
while Argentina will side with Axis if other South American Pro Axis countries are harrassed by Allies.

Also wanne make a swap for Italy If 2 of its 3 mainland Home-territories'are occupied...

The one thing I noted during the development of TWW was that the spontaneous addition of neutral countries to either side of the conflict was an issue for players since it had fairly dramatic effects on game balance. Players did not like having a highly competitive match change instantly in the middle of a game. Just an FYI.

ebbe · 14 Mar 2021, 17:31

@schulz Wow that is a long post... reading through it:
okej:

1. danube navy-transportAxis: The only ships transported were fastboats and some small subs which were transported in parts.. and then reassembled in Constanca...

2. Western Turkey Partisans: I choose East Trueky: which is an assumption: as more mountaineous and less populated I could imagine it to be a perfect Partisan Heaven

3.--> "Realistically I don't think Spain and Portugal would declare war on Russia just because Finland and N.Norway were occupied."
Me too this trigger was reserved for Sweden only..
which still would but unlikely but I ended up in the Experimental Game Department so I just give it a try I like to make a more historical path scenario and another more free scenario...later.....maybe just declare War to USSR only , and swedish units limited to reconquer scandinavian territory? All very speculative ofcourse....
4. I think there is no scenario which Portugal joins the Axis:
I agree too... the treaty with UK seems strong....

5. Spain could have joined the Axis only if she was confident that Britain is already about to lose the war and significant German assist will be ensured. Spanish entry into the war could led Portugese entry into the war as well. That is the way I like to fix... very small change they would join early after devastating Civilwar, but I agree, more likely when Axis could like say occupy 3 or 4 Allied Victory cities for example

6Mexico and Brazil in WWII. they entered mexican mostly with airforce and brasil with an expeditionary force in africa

The italian case: I think I try if 3 out of 4 main Italian terr.'s are occupied ( N/s Italy, Rome and or Sicily ) surrender most units and continue as Allies partner with few Infantry and garrison only.

@ Hepps, thanks for the suggestion : I can understand that point:
but Turkey is small in Army size, and its PU's go to no one;
so I think it is just a sudden shock of the momentum of stepping in, not a game changer....?? How Turkey gets more units? Just by fixed limited
annual or biennial Infantry reinforcement only. To keep impact small but their representation alive in the game.

maybe I should take a break in this project untill I had time to take a
distance for bit more objective review Like I said I would.. haha...

before I might even think about let the USSR clash by chance with Allies after the Axis surrender and trigger the Comunist revolution in China.... well that sounds interesting though... hahaha.....

jkprince · 14 Mar 2021, 17:55

I am back after a long hiatus to make a comment about the addition of neutral diplomacy... If you are to make these neutrals able to take a part in the war their territories should be revised and divided into three to four territories in order to make it so at least they do not fall in a single turn, and also allow them to be given slightly more PU income as to make them relevant ingame.
Attached is examples where I applied the process to Spain, Sweden and Turkey (obviously in a very simple manner)