Proposed Map: Domination 1941
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@thedog 16000x9000 looks pretty clean for the larger units. It crops with just a little bit of the Antarctic showing and the diameter of those circles at around 200 diameter at that scale.
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I think 16000x9000 is the way to go. In this case bigger is better
It will be a monsterous map :alien_monster:
What do think of having a regular shape for capitals maybe square-ish but with rounded corners? (you could always fractal a square shape to be make it look irregular?) Extensions> Modify path> Fractalise...
As its a big map, it might help to have a regular shape when zoomed out, what do you think?
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@thedog yeah I feel like the lesson learned from my first experience with Domination is to avoid things like capital circles at this stage, cause ya just never know what timeline someone might want, or how big they'll want their map I guess lol. Easy enough to add capital tiles later, somewhat harder to remove if done first, so I'll probably do something different than circles for that stuff. Like I honestly never thought a map with this many territory divisions would be desirable, but then it took off and grew more legs in the afterlife lol. Even still, when I look at it, I mainly see ways to recast AA50 or G40, by imagining half those lines are just gone, but then for someone else maybe this is just the thing heheh. I think 16000x9000 is probably ideal, I mean as long as tripleA can hang. GIMP and Inkscape can take a little while to render, or like if opening duplicates at that scale it can slow down, so going much larger than that might be a bit of a grind. But this seems to work OK and it's got the 16x9 aspect, so that's a plus.
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@black_elk :flexed_biceps:
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@beelee said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
@black_elk :flexed_biceps:
heheh for sure! Also, so feel free to draw on any of those drafts. Like with the red marker or whatever, and we can play around with ideas here lol.
So like for example, I was thinking to have the Rockies/Continental divide as a chokepoint, where there would be a pass through Utah Wyoming and another to the South (kinda Oregon Trail style hehe) So perhaps adding a TT split between AZ and NM like this... Or similarly, say you want a few more coastal divisions for the inevitable Japanese West Coast invasion, maybe you split California in 3 to create some more interest there... Or maybe Siberia gets bisected again etc, here that's pretty crude, but you get the idea...
At various points you can just lean into the blob topography, or follow a river, or a desert, or just use any abstraction really, so the geometry can get more tactically or visually engaging in whatever way. Basically once you got some lines down you can start riffing and it's a little easier to tweak as you go. Just to block in ideas, you can then go back and make it more accurate, or adjust the labelling so it's sensible.
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@black_elk
If this post still holds true
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/1726/ancient-empires-222-bc/101?page=6
24000x12000=288million px
then you have 16000x9000=144million px, so should be fine !Oooh 16:9, well engineered !
Is the line width of the baseTiles 3px-ish for the TripleA utilities.
The reliefTiles line width should be increased to 5px or more as some players will zoom out to 20% so that it shows up as this resolution. -
@thedog For sure! yeah right now it's a bit wobbly between 2 and 3 in some spots, needs some house cleaning hehe. I think it probably makes sense to draft it out and play around, then maybe stroke again just to get it a little more consistent. 1-3 and then 5 or more in the relief, sounds ideal.
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@black_elk yea i need to try and learn the graphics part. All i can do is change some units a little bit with pinta lol
I need a beginner program :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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@beelee said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
@black_elk yea i need to try and learn the graphics part. All i can do is change some units a little bit with pinta lol
I need a beginner program :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
@beelee I hear ya, fortunately inkscape makes certain things a lot simpler to manipulate. My problem is that I'm so used to PS/GIMP that I'm constantly reaching for that UI here, but inkscape is organized a bit differently lol. My primary interest is just to create a more general resource vector that others could use down the road. Cause usually what happens is we'll get that personnel shift, someone dips for a few years (usually me lol) and then it's hard to find some of the stuff at a starting point. We can get lost in the minutia of labelling or which divisions in the Soviet Far East are best forever, but really I just want to get something blocked out that I know will also work for say Global or V3 or even Classic. Cause it can always be downscaled again right, or boundaries can be removed or modified, but upscaling is usually the big pain in the ass hehe.
I'd envision working it out at 16000, then maybe pulling like 3 bitmaps at different scales in addition to the svg. Large, Medium, Small world guides I guess, in practical terms- like with the 1-3-5 border thing at each scale. So the projection is basically consistent at each size/playscale. That way people can just blast away with their erasers and such, and it doesn't take forever to cook up a WW2 themed map. If I get a Global revamp out of it, maybe with a cool relief like WOPR did for my v3, or that I can use with my Frostion unit set on a big ass screen, I'll pretty happy with that! hehe But then if others can use it for different ideas, that's all to the good too. If you got particular ideas to lay on me, I'm all ears. I'll try to accommodate as much as I can, I think are benefits to having some stuff be a little cartoony, but still if something needs to get dialed or busted in half, there's always a way. I mean there are definitely plenty of WW2 maps TWW, Ironwar, and others, that one could look to for ideas on how to carve it up and label, but it'd be nice to get something fairly flexible, that also sorta folds in to the standard divisions of the World War II spread, with the Global 1940 using the same basic contours, or maybe that HBG 1936-45 board too - just to have it.
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@black_elk F Yea ! Sounds Awesome or reads that way anyway :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Yea a big, not blank, but world map for others to modify, to taste would be a Huge contribution to triplea.
My personal interests are making global a little different, kinda like the Kid and the Path to Victory guys did. That and being able to add boxes up North and South for Corps/Army Groups the way Global 40 Expansion works.
Idk that triplea can make the boxes work 100% right now, but it'd be a start
Maybe one of the ISU kids will get into it. I think there mostly in code writing mode but ? Maybe ? Anyway, anything you can come up with will be awesome. Too bad hepster not around these days
P Out
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A little different but this guy did a cool map thing here
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/39372/spring-1942-supersized-by-misterhaskins
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@beelee yeah that's pretty sick right there! I mean the big thing we got going for us is that our infantry can scale, so we're not as locked in to sculpts at 1:72 or 1:96 or whatever with chips and stuff knocking over. I think a Micro A&A Global with tiny ass sculpts (more like Risk for the inf say) would have been cool for the official products. But instead they spent several years pushing those larger models for the tactical games, that didn't really have anything to do with the big board games. Of course I dream of giant Cyanite Magneto boards for sure! Heheh but on the table top, you'd need a pretty big table. I guess if going this large, you could probably do a physical print just by juicing the dpi though, so that's another perk of making it pretty huge.
No doubt, Hepster always had cool ideas. I seem to kinda come late to the party perpetually. Like it was cracking off there for a while before the 20s, but then world end plagues and such went down I guess. Hopefully everyone is alright and just chilling working cush jobs or whatever. But it's always been like this I suppose. Like whoever's motivated at the moment, just kinda gotta let it ride and work with what ya got hehe. Hopefully we get something that Kurt enjoys for a Domination plan along the way though.
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Wow it took that quy 4 days @ 8 hours per day = 32 hours to do the outline.
@black_elk how long did it take you to do the outline?
Also your map is bigger 16000x9000px vs 11000 x 7200Im hoping that we can get others to contribute some textures that we can all share and some terrain art as well. I have some terrain art coming this week.
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Certainly faster when 90% of the work was already done lol. I mean I basically just cribbed it and enlarged added a few bits at the margins hehe. Fortunately I think Hepps and I have a pretty similar design aesthetic and general process for this sort of stuff. I can't remember exactly, but it probably took me a solid month to do the original one, like hours upon hours upon hours in Paint, and even then I started out using with the Europe 2000 baseline that Zero had already put together. It's just much faster when building on a decent foundation, no contest.
These days I can just about draw the world from memory, which comes in handy, honestly just from making silly maps for tripleA. Sometimes I fantasize about spontaneously time traveling back to Highschool just to totally ace the fuck out of that History test lol.
ps. I guess now would also be a good time to ask if there's anything in the scaling or basic contours that feels like way too off? I mean everything is a compromise on some level, when you get down to individual TTs, but now that we got a feel for the display at the high end I mean. It works for me, but I've been staring at it for hours, and also trying to take to heart some of the ways Hepps adjusted the breaks to do cool stuff with mountains. Like I think it works way better like this than the more 1900 political divisions of the first Dom, but it's still kinda 1914-18 ish in a few places. I think with some minor adjustment though, it'd be fairly quick. I'm noodler and kinda compulsive, so watch it take me forever and a day after all, like I already want to put in the Missouri river and few more things like that, but inkscape is encouraging. It should be a lot easier to modify.
I find it interesting and kinda gratifying to see the little ways it's morphed in intervening years, to suit different styles of gameplay. I got super excited for the OP just cause he mentioned Domination lol. Total Domination! I prob should have had the foresight to know it would end up back at WW2, instead of trippin' off like the Transvaal or how to pull off opium wars or a dozen capitals in Europe lol. I'm always drawn to the WW1 timeline, but it's hard. Something about the second World War is always great though, just cause everything's on the table and it all sorta works. I think Iron War had a really fun endgame, I've been playing a lot of that one, but really any A&A style board when the computer doesn't give up and you can see invasion USA or South America or whatever, as an alternative to the Allies just stomping. Most PvP games will end well before that, but it's still fun to see what sort of TT divisions end up being attractive for that, or how the map might get painted colors in different ways.
pps. @kurtgodel7 said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
In my proposed map there is one Japan, not three little Japans. There will be only one capital bordering the ocean, and it will border the ocean only on one side. Naval bombardment shots will be limited, as is the case in NML. (Anniversary edition rules.)
So in that example, perhaps you just collapse all the TT divisions on the main island say, or divide the Sz around it as you like. Maybe keeping the smaller islands for some 'invasion' flavor but without screwing Japan into having to cover more than 1 tile at their Capital, if you like the turtle up dynamic for them. That kinda stuff all makes sense. We got a few divisions in there for a draft, in case someone wants to do a map more pre-20th century, but basically you can just erase those lines are redraw them to suit whatever you have in mind.
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@black_elk said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
ps. I guess now would also be a good time to ask if there's anything in the scaling or basic contours that feels like way too off?
Well, in Russia there are 2-3 TT close to each other, that are big. Two should be halved, so there is a north and south, The third Im really not sure about, the big-ish one on the right, see below.
Other than that
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@thedog Yeah I figured to bust those up a bit. I just roughed it in pretty quickly in that zone.
I'm currently closing in the gaps and giving it a pass on the pixel by pixel view. Basically I was able to use Inkscape to upscale everything, then trace bitmap on centerline down to 1 pixel. So all the boundaries will be at 1 pixel even at 16000, but doing that created little breaks (sorta where the stained glass effect is going on in those earlier drafts I posted, where the lines intersect after removing all the anti-aliasing and exporting it back out.) So basically still have to go in, fine tune it, and clean some things up. There might have been an extension to blow past that step, but I couldn't find it, and anyway I kinda enjoy this part, cause it allows me to noodle some stuff around and get back into the process with the fine toothed comb.
I'm about a third of the way through it now. It's much faster though, certainly compared to what I used to have to do, because you can see pretty quickly where there are openings and just close em out. Usually my method for this stage is to sorta go to town in GIMP or Paint, as an indexed color mode image, drawing with the pencil tool. Then what I like to do is create a decorative fill with color blocks using the paint bucket just to make sure everything is closed, it's the fastest way for me evaluate the fills, and to make sure there aren't and hanging pixels or weird isolated spots. It should be done by the end of the week I'd say. Moving at a pretty steady clip here. When it's fully dialed I will bring that back into inkscape and save out as the svg with the base layer full dialed like that at 16000. I want to get that saved, before charging too far ahead. Should be fairly easy to do any morphs or boundary corrections at that point. I'll shoot for the weekend!
All the best
Elk -
@Black_Elk
Last night I started building the xml skeleton for your map.My intention is to get Germany and Russia as unit playable sides, so people can comment on stats. Then do Japan and USA.
No timescale
Question to all, which WW2 1941 map should I use for the territory PU values that best equate to GDP values?
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@thedog said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
Question to all, which WW2 1941 map should I use for the territory PU values that best equate to GDP values?
I'm not sure which one would be best but @RogerCooper might have one. i think I remember him posting a buncha of information on that at one time. Not certain though
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@beelee said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
@thedog said in Proposed Map: Domination 1941:
Question to all, which WW2 1941 map should I use for the territory PU values that best equate to GDP values?
I'm not sure which one would be best but @RogerCooper might have one. i think I remember him posting a buncha of information on that at one time. Not certain though
You can use any map and just assign the production values you want. For economic statistics, see https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Correlates_of_War and https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Maddison_Database.
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I'm skimming not reading so maybe this comment is useless.
These types of territories would be interesting to fight for but from a UI perspective I don't know where you would put the unit stacks, and visually be able to tell where the units are. See red and blue for example
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