💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[ezgaming]

@beelee 2.6.14653

[ezgaming]

@thedog YEP !!! Thanks. I got it working now. Silly me...

[TheDog]

@ezgaming
Yay, glad its working!

Feedback for improvement would be most welcome

[beelee]

@ezgaming Glad you got it working

Did you by chance open this issue at git ? https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/12373

[ezgaming]

@beelee No but I have a bunch of friends that are sort of DESPERATE to play this thing, lol. So I know of at least 6 people I play games with that downloaded the new TripleA yesterday and all of us started playing GCD. So probably one of them.

My ONLY issue now, is that I cannot get the game to do a pre-start "BID." And I never could.

Our group is very interested in modding the starting setup to simulate/recreate some historical events that could of happened... Not to mention just wanting to play around with giving Italy is little more and Japan a little less just for fun and to adjust the strategies that folks tend to develop when the starting setup is always the same.

Cheers and Keep up the WONDERFUL WORK.

I am on a MAC by the way. My PC died and I am in the market for a new GAMIG PC - have any suggestions? Normally I HATE anything Microsoft but it is what it is so I need a new gaming PC.

[beelee]

@ezgaming right on. @TheDog might know what's up with the bid. I didn't really contribute anything to GCD BlackElk and wc worked with Dog on it quite a bit.

Would you ask your guys if any made the issue next time you talk to them ? They were on a mac as well. If one of them did and they got it to work, please tell them to close it. It helps from having old ones pile up

Yea, idk about a new machine. I can recommend against lenovo though. Hate that chinese trash. Nothing but problems with it.

I hate windows too, but it will work on triplea the best. Good luck and let us know if you find a good one

[wc_sumpton]

@ezgaming said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

My ONLY issue now, is that I cannot get the game to do a pre-start "BID." And I never could.

Pre-Start Bids are handled the same way as in all TripleA maps. "Game Options" prior to starting a game.

Cheers...

[ezgaming]

@wc_sumpton Yes I know that - and I cannot get that to work in this game. More specifically, I can give a country the bid no problem... and even place it... sort of.... but if I use even 1 bid of 1 point, the entire game goes into some preset game 1 German invasion of Russia.

In other words, the bid function does not really work. There is no way to actually use it. I have no idea why all the Germans are so determined to invade Russia; I DID NOT TELL THEM TO DO IT!

My hope was that after they saw the new German bid they would have world peace and all hold hands and sing Kumbaya

I REALLY WANT THAT BID TO WORK hahahaha

[ezgaming]

@ezgaming Thanks - we figured out that our group did post that but they have no idea how to remove it. I posted on that git page to see if anyone could remove it.

[Eqqman]

I would like to get unsubscribed from this thread and haven't been able to figure out how to do it. Anyone have any suggestions?

[TheDog]

@eqqman
Click on the bell icon (top right) and select your option, probably Not watching or maybe Ignoring

[TheDog]

@ezgaming
I have never played a PvP or used the bid system. @Black_Elk Help did you test this?
However 1941 GCD has a different method for calculating PU and it may be interfering with the bid system.

All is not lost for for now as long as all players make the same changes this might work.

In the xml edit this block to what you want. Line 10300+

<resourceInitialize>
  	<resourceGiven player="Germany" 		resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  	<resourceGiven player="USSR" 			resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  		<resourceGiven player="China" 		resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  	<resourceGiven player="Italy" 			resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  	<resourceGiven player="Britain" 		resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  	<resourceGiven player="Japan" 			resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  	<resourceGiven player="USA" 			resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  		<resourceGiven player="Pacific-Allies" resource="PUs" quantity="0"/>
  </resourceInitialize>

[beelee]

@ezgaming right on I will cose it and link to here

[Eqqman]

edited out --- (won't let me delete)

[beelee]

@eqqman

this is what shows up for me.

[wc_sumpton]

@ezgaming said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

@wc_sumpton Yes I know that - and I cannot get that to work in this game. More specifically, I can give a country the bid no problem... and even place it... sort of.... but if I use even 1 bid of 1 point, the entire game goes into some preset game 1 German invasion of Russia.

In other words, the bid function does not really work. There is no way to actually use it. I have no idea why all the Germans are so determined to invade Russia; I DID NOT TELL THEM TO DO IT!

My hope was that after they saw the new German bid they would have world peace and all hold hands and sing Kumbaya

I REALLY WANT THAT BID TO WORK hahahaha

LMAO!!!

If I'm reading this correctly, Germany is AI controlled, and they are invading Russia. I don't think the "Bid" will change that. Germany got no place else to go but east.

There is also "Resource Modifiers" but be warned that whatever is given using this will be granted twice.

But if you want AI Germany not to attack Russia on the first turn, I think you are out of luck!

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

I did test it a bit with a bid initially, since that would have been my typical method - like for A&A maps or Iron War and most other PvP games, but doing this just broke the first round triggers.

Specifically, if entering a bid in game options (for say Germany) this will jack up that thing you did with the Eastern front - assigning original owner of all those TTs to USSR and then having them switch to German ownership via trigger before the game begins - like in whatever hidden round where that occurs at the outset. The bid phase interrupts that part, and the TTs will appear as control contested, with a bunch of German starting units in the front line Soviet starting TTs, and the map display will show that situation since the bid phase comes first. Typically original owner and starting owner of a TT would be the same at the game's start.

You can strong arm it I suppose, but that requires the players to save/reload after the bid phase, and I'm not sure how it would even work, since the game is pretty far removed from my familiar A&A point of reference. The usual bidding process would probably throw players for a loop. Pretty sure I mentioned this at the time, way back, as one of the things that would make PvP basically impossible lol. I took a more anodyne approach afterwards, suggesting playbalance by sides/nation might be achieved through the Resource Modifier thing instead, but again that's all keying off what the computer does, since it's basically the SP game right? I would just remove the bid altogether, but I think it's part of the standard options so not sure if you can?

In a PvP set up you'd typically design an opener around what the Human player does, or is likely to do, with each nation, and for anything more complex than a Revised of v3 or 1942.2 then use the bid to balance by sides or player skill. Computer opponent will just always fail there though. The Computer Opponent can't parse the map properly when the rules become very complex, it has no grasp of strategy or how the game is actually won, likewise if the opener is particularly nuanced, and if there's a unit type or rule it doesn't understand, it can't cover vs those exploits. So just like playing against a newbie, I think there, the idea is just to give the computer an absurdly large bid (in this case a resource Modifier I guess?) so it can bumble into providing an effective challenge and keep pace with the player, just through sheer weight of numbers.

I also think that having an alternative combat method/sequence, alt unit roster with novel interactions, or purchasing/production mechanics etc. this all makes it very hard for me to approach the game with my usual A&A rubric to even know where to begin. My theory is that with a larger map, high production high economy etc. then the simpler and more familiar the unit roster would be a place to start, juar cause then the new player has more of an anchor on what's going on. Though often it goes in the other direction, like large map with more units, larger scale and novelty pushed on everything. But then I tend to view maps like this as just trying to push the game engine in new directions, places it hasn't really gone, or that I haven't seen yet at least. I just don't think A&A is a useful analog, since the gameplay is more similar to say a Total War type 4x-ish game, just with the WW2 type skin on it I suppose, probably more entertaining for a solitaire and painting the map your color.

I can't really speak to the gameplay as it compares to A&A, other than the sorts of things I was trying in those various test runs or ideas kicking around. Modifying the map by itself and filling in unit graphics gaps on request was a challenge enough for me. I do think it's possible to take a map like this and make a PvP game out of it, perhaps just using v3 or something with tech tokens with a more standard tourney style bid for opener variety? but I'd have no clue how to rework it along those lines. I was pretty reliant on the battle calc and blind experimentation to start seeing how the units actually interacted with each at scale over successive rounds/games, which to me looked nothing like A&A, and more like beat up on the computer, figure it out as I went and then just see if it felt like WW2-ish the playpattern.

There's a gang of stuff in the xml that I don't understand, so I'd have to defer there, cause there's a bunch in the grab bag hehe. From a map design standpoint the things that intrigued me most were just seeing if something at 8000p would even work in tripleA, and like if the relief could be made modular and all that stuff. With the rest as sort of a bonus. The extra tank types and terrain effects, a production spread at base 1 (rather than base zero for TT values). Income attached directly to SZ tiles. Cheap production that can be destroyed, or somehow building rail for M3 into that on the ground. These are all ideas carried over from the A&A framework, like HRs, but the bones on it the stuff the Dog wanted to run with. I had fun with it, but I'm still not sure I got my head around it all haha

Cool to see it in the repository though! Fastest way to improve on a concept would be to grab a handful of players and run it through it's paces. Although duos vs the machine, or pvp with a computer albatross on each side, probably wouldn't be the most popular. I think for that you'd want more of a PvP frame on it, 2 players controlling each nation (by sides), but then it's just running openers for a year or more probably to sort that, or a massive bid for all to kick the can so far on balance that it's remains a perpetual mystery. For a first out I'd just take control of Germany or USSR or like any one nation and see how far you can manage vs the comp controlling everyone else. Cause that's what I did lol.

I got continuously rocked to the floor until I figured out what was going on with some of this stuff that the Dog wanted to test out, the order of battle, the production/costs, rail and terrain movement, standard tech unlocks, maintenance etc. lol. Like it's a lot to have going on, even without a G40-esqe politics phase (which the computer also never understands.) I'm not sure new work, if any will materialize for the hardAI in triplea, so this map is just trying to bend tripleA to do certain surprising things in a way that allows of WW2 vibe in a 4x type framework. Like a pact of steel sort of thing I suppose, but where the A&A just goes off the rails into something else. Maybe a bid could work, I honestly have no idea what would need the tweak to make that happen though, probably easier to edit mode the scenario and just move whatever directly maybe?

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk

LOL! WoW, now I understand!! For this map this has a simple fix. First triggers should never be attached to "Bid" steps, as these may or may not happen. Like the "Information" screens. But on this map the "Tech" steps can be moved to happen prior to the "Bid" steps, then all these "Pre" triggers can be attached to the "Tech". Thus you have you cake, bids, information screen and eat it all also!!

Cheers...

P.S. Yep, this does work, it allows for the change of ownership to happen prior to the bid purchase/place.

Also my apologies to @ezgaming. Sorry man, did not understand what the problem was.

Cheers...

[TheDog]

@ezgaming
Im so glad you came by to make GCD better.

Here is a fix, Im hoping its the fix, but please test.
1941_global_command_decision.xml

Overwrite your current file, its usually here on Windows (copy & paste into your file manager)
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\triplea\downloadedMaps\1941_global_command_decision\map\games

I will post/publish it when this is tested.

@Black_Elk
You did mention the Bid problem, but it got lost in all the other stuff that was wrong, until now. Hopefully bids now work as intended.

@Black_Elk & @wc_sumpton Thanks for the help!

Changes are
Moved Tech block before Bid block
Line 6363 changed from 0EndTurn to Tech
Line 6371 changed from 0EndTurn to Tech
Line 6424 changed from GermanyCombatMove to GermanyTechActivation

EDIT: Update Bid placing of Ships in owned SZ with own ships does not work.

[beelee]

@thedog GCD is a cool abbreviation/acronym. I always think of gummies for some reason though

Good Action Dog !