💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[JohnnyCat]

Okay so here are some updates.

As I suspected, you guys are on MOST of the issues I had but I still feel that your overall documentation smells of what a bunch of geniuses hanging out together would put together for docs, hahahaha. "Sure Brian, the tool tips have the bulk of those rules, and the remaining rules are easily found in section 42 of the Triple addendum to paragraph 14 sections 8 but on Tuesdays it's section 74. And of course those tool tips and hovers only work when the dipping sauce is set to savory."

IN other words, this might make sense to you experts but I have to question regular a bunch of us regular low brow types can quickly pick up on all this ...

QUESTIONS:

If you look at the MAP that I have attached, you can see the map that I see and - THERE ARE NO TERRAIN FEATURES !!! How am I not seeing marsh or mountain???

Why are air units not allowed to attack neutrals?

THANK YOU - and please take my comments as supportive and constructive. I HATE to complain about this masterpiece but it's not readily playable in my opinion without some "dumbing down" to make it easier to understand. And yea, it's no simple axis and allies game... but that's what I love about this game.

And I don't even want to get started on game balance, lol.

[JohnnyCat]

OMG - so there is a switch to TURN ON MAP DETAILS

WE DID NOT SEE THAT IN 1 YEAR OF PLAY

OK so only need to know why neutrals cannot be attacked.

Cheers

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Im glad you have found the SatNav/Map Details now you can see the terrain and terrain icons and know where to attack/defend.

There is a Dev fix for a sea attack that crashed one of your games, here
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.6.14790
Download it and overwrite your current version of TripleA.

Keep the comments coming, as you are making the map/game better :thumbs_up:

Im working on another release for August, It will have Japans PU output reduced by 20, amongst other things.

[Cernel]

I've just downloaded this map and briefly taken a look at it.

Firstly, let me congratulate for the over 180 thousands visualization of this thread so far (coming from someone whose main map thread has not even reached 1 thousand as of yet).

I understand that the HQ are never going to be very good depictions in the moment you have to have one dude's face for all land, sea or air, but I find the Italian ones particularly bad.

For the land, you have used the image of Mario Roatta, who starts being very important only in 1942 and only about commanding the anti-partisan warfare in ex Yugoslavia, something which is not even depicted in this game (unless I'm missing some rules), so we have an image of someone which is not even where that guy was at the start of the game and is not going to be pictured in this game anyway.

Instead, I would suggest to go with an image of Ettore Bastico, not because it is considered a particularly good general, but because the Italian HQ-Army in North Africa is headed by him.

For the air, you have used the image of Italo Balbo, who died on 28 June 1940 so is barely a World War 2 figure at all (having died of friendly fire 18 days after Italy entered the war)...

Instead, I would suggest to go with an image of Francesco Pricolo or Rino Corso Fougier, respectively the head of the Italian Royal Air Force before and after November 1941, November 1941 being the month when the former is substituted by the latter.

For the sea, you have used the image of Pietro Badoglio, which makes absolutely no sense because he was not even an admiral. Seeing Pietro Badoglio smiling over the sea at the command of fleets is terrible and arguably the worst thing in this game of all the pictures.

Here the image has to picture Angelo Jachino.

About the Germans, talking only about the land HQ, I guess Rommel is fine, but it is really weird to see Rommel everywhere (especially on the Russian front) in the moment he is a figure strongly identified with the war in Africa (Obviously, he was not in Tunisia at this time. I don know why any German unit would be there.), which was enourmously less important than the Russian front.

I would have rather gone with the Manstein picture which @Black_Elk provided, although he actually never took part in main operations during 1941 and 1942 (In 1941 was in Group North, which was the least important of the three groups, then in Crimea, which was a side-show, then again back to Leningrad thereabout, again being the least important front beside anything farther north.).

For the HQ in the way it is used here at start game (3 German HQ being present on the German - Russian front except Finland), I'd see the HQ as representing Army Groups, so I would go with an image of Fedor von Bock since he was often the commander of the most important group until he was fired on 17 July 1942, and in particular commanded Operation Typhoon, arguably the most important late 1941 operation.

An other lower level possible pick would be Heinz Guderian, who actually started Operation Barbarossa serving under Bock, but the main problem with this is that historically Guderian had a very long hiatus starting on late December 1941 (so it would make little sense to see him anywhere during 1942).

A possible alternative, strongly related with both Bock and Guderian, would be Maximilian von Weichs. He took the 2nd Army command from Bock and then again took over for Bock when Bock was dismissed (this time leading Army Group "B") so serving directly under Bock until taking over for him for all the war with the Soviet Union. I would say that for a 1941 game this is not as much a good pick as Bock, but it has the upside of making sense still to see him around in late 1942 onwards, even though he would be eventually relieved of command in favour of Manstein when things started to get very ugly.

On a dynamic perspective, starting in late 1941, I would say that (in this game) the German HQ image for land forces would be better as initially an image of Fedor von Bock, then substituted in July 1942 by an image of Maximilian von Weichs, then substituted in November 1942 by an image of Erich von Manstein, then substituted in April 1944 by an image of Walter Model.

Long story short, I'd substitute the image of Rommel with either Manstein or Bock.

Something I cannot understand is why having an HQ-Submarine image on the sea depicting Karl Dönitz in the moment he was obviously never actually commanding the submarines from the sea? Is the HQ-Submarine supposed to be on a submarine?

Generally speaking, I think that the HQ images of this game are questionable, so I suggest to reconsider them all.

[TheDog]

@cernel
Thanks for the feedback, I am not well up on WW2 commanders so dont feel like I can comment, maybe @Black_Elk might?

Firstly, let me congratulate for the over 180 thousands visualization of this thread so far (coming from someone whose main map thread has not even reached 1 thousand as of yet).

I don't think we cannot take credit for the number of views, I too am amazed, as lots of my other maps struggle for views, but;

• Any WW2 map does appear to give much better views
• Maybe that the map/game was designed for solo play with 'good' playing AI, we can take the credit for, as we spent many hours trying to make it better.

.

Is the HQ-Submarine supposed to be on a submarine?

Yes, and they represent the idea of Wolfpack tactics and veteran submariners, which only the Germans really maximised upon.

[Cernel]

@thedog Trying to understand in what month of 1941 this game is supposed to start (Is there any?), I've noticed a major inconsistency: Smolensk is Soviet and Kiev is German. This makes no sense for 1941 because the Germans took Smolensk on 16 July and Kiev on 19 September 1941. It is actually even worse considering that Pskov is Russian too, whereas that city was captured by the Germans on 9 July. I've no idea about what time-line your German-Russian border is meant to picture beside that it should be somewhen between July and October 1941.

Related, are you sure that Crimea should be Axis controlled at start game?

[TheDog]

@Cernel
The map starts in the 4th quarter of 41, so October-ish to end of December.

So allowing for distortion of the map, what about this, from the top;
The following become German
Estonia
Pskov
Vitebsk
Mogilev

The following revert to USSR
Bryansk
Chernihiv
Mariupol
Crimea

Leaving Smolensk as an anomaly, it is probably in the wrong place.

What do you think?

[Cernel]

@thedog I've limited (and would still limit) myself to looking at the names and based my considerations solely upon them (whether or not they are in the right place).

Based on the names only and on what you say about the starting time, I would say that the German ownerships bordering Sovietic-owned territories should be, from north to south, Estonia, Pskov, Vitebsk, Smolensk, Mogilev, Pinsk (I assume being misspelled as Prinsk), Prypiat (I assume being misspelled as Prypriat), Kyiv (or Kiev), Chernihiv (Chernigov), Odesa, Kherson.

The above would imply, starting from the current game, giving Estonia, Pskov, Vitebsk, Smolensk, Mogilev to the Germans and giving Bryansk, Mariupol and Crimea to the Sovietics.

Whether or not these names are in the right place is up to you to decide. I'm under the impression that at least a few of them are misplaced.

If not an actual superimposed political map, I would need at the very least a better drawing of the rivers and some assurance about them being a good referring point before giving opinions on whether or not any name is well enough placed, but really that is something that should better be done by the map-maker himself (who I assume is you).

About the Ukrainian language names, I think to have ever seen them in the Russian version in period maps. For example, I don't recall having ever seen "Kiev" as "Kyiv" in any World War 2 maps, but maybe there were such cases.

[TheDog]

Black_Elk did the 'look', so made the map base & relief, named the territories, it fitted our skill set, as he is a veteran map maker and A&A player.

I am none of the above, so I mainly did the 'feel' so the design for player & AI play and coded the xml and documentation. (With serious coding help from wc_sumpton)

We both did the testing and balancing.

I will look at your suggestions, the changes will not be reflected in the August release, but in the one after, too much rebalancing is required. Thanks for making the map/game better.

[Black_Elk]

Sorry haven't been around in a hot minute.

I'd agree with @cernel

Any spelling errors probably my goof when I banged out that first key. Pinsk ending up Prinsk or whatever. TTs in that whole swath are pretty contorted, like probably more than anywhere on the map honestly, I never got around to redrawing the paths for some of the rivers to comport with the TT distortions, some of it was to try and ballpark G40, but I ended up redoing most of those tiles anyway for the smaller board. Everything is stretched pretty tall, like Smolensk and Moscow I think you'd have to take some liberties. Timelime wasn't super clear to me when we started, so maybe a holdover there. I'm reluctant to reshape the tiles cause it's a chore, easier to relabel probably.

For the heads, I chose 6 at random for the big 6 not really knowing how they'd end up being used. I think something generic would be preferable to something specific. Something like Generic German General #1 as opposed to say Rommel. Or similarly for the other HQs, but of course for portraits finding something that has a striking or recognizable vibe is a bit tough. I think it would be a fairly easy substitution like just taking whatever portrait image and cropping it into a 54px circle pretty much. Or slightly larger I can't remember I think it was 68px maybe? Like you kinda almost just want a uniform and a hat for some of this stuff, without the name recognition probably. The Italians look a bit low rez to me somehow, but I don't know if have them saved anywhere I think I did those all in one night way back and then probably just dumped the recycle bin after. Not sure what's easy. I've been a bit busy of late, but I think for the HQs could probably do a different spread pretty easily if the aim was a more historically accurate thing. Probably where they just have a colored ring around the circle to indicate which nation or something similar, like an icon to indicate the HQ type or a tint maybe. I think they were kinda placeholders. The Eastern Front I think should just follow whatever line for the month of the start date, since G opens the game, just to hit the beats, like having those TTs change hands. I think it shifted a few times.

[JohnnyCat]

Very interesting developments !

I too have been wondering about all those Italians in Crimea…

But I’m still wondering why air units are not allowed to attack neutrals. Is this by design or to discourage players from operating in neutral territories.

[TheDog]

@johnnycat

But I’m still wondering why air units are not allowed to attack neutrals. Is this by design or to discourage players from operating in neutral territories.

It was by design and yes to discourage Players & AI from operating in neutral territories.

This will change in the August release, so please be impatient.

[JohnnyCat]

Very nice to hear that. Thank you. And I’m ever patient

[Cernel]

@black_elk said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

The Eastern Front I think should just follow whatever line for the month of the start date, since G opens the game, just to hit the beats, like having those TTs change hands.

I think a good reference may be this map (even though I cannot vouch for its correctness)

, grey for Germans and green for Sovietics.

I don't know what is the dating for this map, but I assume that it has to be anywhen from mid September to the end of the month (not sure though).

[TheDog]

Latest version 175 ready for download

August has come early well for this release

In TripleA
Click Download Maps Button
Click Installed tab
Click 1941 Global Command Decision
Click Remove Button
Click Yes button to remove
Click Ok button (Successfully removed)
Click Close (To force the map list to refresh)
Click Download Maps Button
Find & Click 1941 Global Command Decision
Click Install button
Enjoy!

You will also need to upgrade TripleA, as it reduces errors, from here
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases
.
MAJOR CHANGES
WEST

• German Eastern front realigned and forces moved ((thanks Cernel) (Due to TripleA map distortion it is approximate, but more accurate for the time period, late 41)
• Germany gained 4 territories in the north of Russia and lost 2 in the south
• Italy gained 1 territory of Germanys in the Russian South, lost 3 to Russia
• Germany gained a few bombers and more uBoats in the North Atlantic

.
EAST

• Japan homeland lost 12pu from Territories as Industry is linked to Territories so lost another 12pu
• Japan owned 2x SZ and 2x TT gain +1 PU, overall Japan has lost 20pu per turn
• Gain extra units mainly in Shanghai-Kiangsu & Convoy in 6C Sea Zone
• Main reason for the change was that compared to Britain, Japan homeland industrially looked too good, had 6x Industry-Hvy, now has 3, Britain has 4 Industry-Hvy
• As the game progressess Japan gets weaker compared to the previous release (but still has a chance to win in its area of influence
• Lend-Lease-Depot units placed in Fars:Lorestan:Tehran:Gilan & N.Burma so Players know which TT need to be held/taken

.
MAP

• Axis Players & USSR can attack neutrals with Aircraft (thanks johnnycat)
• AI Axis & USSR 1:3 chance to Attack neutrals with Aircraft or 2:3 chance not to attack neutrals with aircraft, this is to help the AI concentrate on the Player factions.
• HQ-Army now has isMarine -1, was missing
• map.properties unit width & height increased (overall units display better)
• Manual updated
• Tool Tip Industries have “rail links” and can move land units upto 3 territories, depending on terrain effects.
  Sometimes this produces inconsistancies in move 2 units like armor over mountains, where they cannot move 3, so work around it. (thanks johnnycat)
• Transport cost of Armor-Lgt now 4, was 3 (thanks johnnycat)
• Tool Tip Inf-Conscript expanded, have no AA attack/defence (thanks johnnycat)
• Tool Tip Nuclear-Bomber expanded, including Can only be targeted by air units in a Dog-Fight & AA from a Strategic Bombing Run on Industry/Base-Camp (thanks johnnycat)

.
Link to 1st post that has the Google Drive download link and to get the latest TripleA version
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread

[Black_Elk]

Looks cool!

I haven't had a chance to play in what feels like ages, just dungeon delving mostly of late, but I like that newer sweep more cause it feels 41 to me. Obviously kinda tricky cause the vibe is sorta timeline catching up to Pearl by the time we get to the Pacific side of the board in the turn order sequence, but since G opens it makes more sense to me that things would be a bit less fuzzy in the opener. Also for TT divisions, like if we did the splits by where the front line was in any given month/year that can make it sorta tricky to go back and forth for alt start dates using the same board or whatever, so a bit of a compromise. Sometimes it felt like it made sense to have an anachronism going more like 1937-39 or 1940 political boundaries, other times 1941 or more like high water mark 1942, especially in coastal China or Eastern Front where all the TTs sorta have to go by the later lines just to fit enough units sometimes. I think the tiles are generally small enough that you can also get a 1945 or even post war thing going, but every choice has some give and take like that.

I think it's cool if on G1/2 they sorta coalesce into the right spots with the big 3 groups. For the HQs graphics, there are a few more in the UHD package but I could probably dig it up again or try some alt mugs. Colorizing the images can be sorta tedius, like I don't have the chops really for that Hearts of Iron look hehe. I think Ebbe mentioned an idea for how to do em sorta more like the shogun General pucks so that might work as well. I think it can be kinda tricky for the Allies, especially USSR and USA since they don't have any at the outset, but then get a bunch at once which is a big power shift. Might make sense where every faction has 1 at the start just so they can see how they play, and then a few more when the officer scale up thing happens. The Air HQ might make sense just with like the theme of WW2 being pretty the air war hehe.

Anyhow, makes sense to me, more air wings is probably entertaining. For the spelling checks, I'd probably just defer to Cernel. Since sometimes my eyes blur there with rogue Rs. Probably just needs the center/poly name switch for whatever goof I might have let slide. Hopefully nothing too major.

Again, great work gang! Keep it hummin

[beelee]

@thedog said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

map.properties unit width & height increased (overall units display better)

This is real interesting. Would you expand on what you did here ? You don't have to do anything to the images themselves ? Just the map.properties ?

Edit
Ahh I see you have some different stuff than i do. This your old one

Mine

Does the width and height change how they place on the map ? I don't want to mess that up, as I've crunched every TTy to maximum lol

I guess I should just try it

[TheDog]

@beelee
No change to the images and no change to the place.txt images.

It fixes the truncation of units, especially on the territory move panel.
Its more important for the allies, as the ships face the opposite way, so you can tell the difference between a Battleship & Cruiser.
The HQs 66x66px and Capital ships 96x54 used to get truncated, now they dont.

.
However there is a downside, overflow spacing uses this same value, so TripleA gives with hand and takes with another.

[beelee]

@thedog

Cool That still seems an overall improvement though. Probably why you did it

I'm not sure what to set the dimensions to. I guess I'll start by trying yours. I'm pretty sure we use the same Frostion units for the most part.

Hmm ... i can't quite remember what Elk and I used for sizes during place. I guess I should probably try that too.

Maybe that doesn't matter though. It's just so the the stuff doesn't crop as much.

Well, I'll mess with it. Thanks for sharing this

[TheDog]

There is a problem with TripleA version
2.6.14806

In the Battle Calculator/Ctrl+B it duplicates some units and might have unintended combat results.

For those on 2.6.14806 or any 2.6 version higher, please upgrade to the latest 2.7 version, yes 2.7 here.
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases