WW2 Pacific 1940 2nd Ed - Why Russia as is?



  • Regarding WW2 Pacific 1940 2nd Ed: Playing against Allies at Hard AI. I'm playing as Japan (human).

    Curious, why Russia is the way it is? It's given a Type setting (human, AI easy/hard, etc) (I gave it Hard AI), it has multiple territories, and the territories have IP # amounts. But the game does not allow Japan to declare war on Russia (Politics phase/window), nor attack Russia, nor move into it's territories. In contrast to the other two nonaligned Nations (France/Indochina and Dutch territories), where Japan can declare war on them and take their territories.

    Unless the inability to attack Russia is a bug... I can only guess it's just an extra that a human player could potentially play as Russia. Barring one of those, or that I'm likely missing something, perhaps Russia should have been one inaccessible border territory?

    Any one know? Any ideas? Thanks!



  • @sculpt Hi sculpt

    think it's a rule thing. JPN can't attack USSR. Not 100% sure but...


  • Admin

    @sculpt With my ancient memory I seem to recall this.

    Russia and Japan may declare war on each other at any time. When not at war, Russia may not enter China. So unless you have declared war in the politics the engine will not allow.
    The ai will not use politics properly yet. Just my thoughts. GLHF Pras



  • @prastle said in WW2 Pacific 1940 2nd Ed - Vs AI Questions:

    @sculpt With my ancient memory I seem to recall this.

    Russia and Japan may declare war on each other at any time. When not at war, Russia may not enter China. So unless you have declared war in the politics the engine will not allow.
    The ai will not use politics properly yet. Just my thoughts. GLHF Pras

    Actually, no, there is no option to declare war on Russia in the Politics window/phase. It's conspicuously missing. Maybe AI Russia can still attack me via some map trigger, but I kinda doubt it.

    @beelee said in WW2 Pacific 1940 2nd Ed - Vs AI Questions:

    @sculpt Hi sculpt

    think it's a rule thing. JPN can't attack USSR. Not 100% sure but...

    You got me thinking when you said "rules". I might have found an initial answer... according to the wikipedia "Axis & Allies: Pacific 1940" page, "Axis & Allies: Pacific 1940 may be combined with Axis & Allies: Europe 1940 to form one game, played with the combined board of both games and using the pieces found in both games." and "The board is designed with combining with Europe 1940 in mind, and Pacific 1940 itself uses only part of the board: for example, there are a number of Soviet Union territories on the board, which are only used in the combined game and considered impassible in Pacific 1940." And so, if the map creator wanted to stick to the original board game map, that's why the Russia territories are there with IP values.

    But if one never intends to combine with a Europe 1940 map, you wouldn't want to leave Russia as is was,.. unless we are still missing the real intention of the triplea map creator.


  • Admin

    @sculpt This map is based on A&A Pacific 1940 so you should read the rules here: http://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Axis-Allies-Pacific-1940-Second-Edition.pdf

    That should lay out the political options for each nation and if for some reason you find that TripleA isn't adhering to them then please let us know.



  • @redrum

    I hope I can ask you this in this thread (I read the A&A Pacific 1940 Rules .pdf) The triplea game code/rules is not allowing something it (I'm convinced) should.

    The tripea game is not allowing Japan to place a major industrial complex on territory Kiangsu. According to the rules the territory must produce 3 or more IPCs (it produces 3) and be an originally Japanese controlled territory, which it is.

    The rule reads: "Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled (not captured) territories with an IPC value of 3 or higher." The game begins with Japan in control of Kiangsu.

    I read that as a rule, not a history lesson. What I mean by that is, the Mancharia territory is also controlled by Japan at the beginning of the game, it has IPC of 3, and the triplea code allows Japan to put a Major Industrial Complex there, but not in Kiangsu. We know "historically" Japan occupied Mancharia, as it did Kaingsu, but that history has no bearing on the game rules. A Major Industrial Complex should be allowed in both territories.

    In addition the .pdf rules read (on page 10 in section 'China Rules'), "If a Japanese industrial complex is built on a Chinese territory and that territory is later recaptured by the Chinese or liberated by another Allied power, the industrial complex is removed from the game." And so the rules are allowing Japan to build industrial complexes on China territories, so that itself is not an issue. Kaingsu not only produces 3 IPC, it is also originally controlled by Japan at the beginning of the game (again, as Mancharia is).


  • Admin

    @sculpt Kiangsu is originally controlled by China. When the game starts, it has been already captured by Japan. See page 8, first paragraph of the Pacific 1940 2nd.ed. rulebook. The same with Manchuria. I tested building Major Industrial Complexes as Japan in both territories - and the engine correctly prohibited placing those factories in either territory.



  • @panther said in WW2 Pacific 1940 2nd Ed - Why Russia as is?:

    @sculpt Kiangsu is originally controlled by China. When the game starts, it has been already captured by Japan. See page 8, first paragraph of the Pacific 1940 2nd.ed. rulebook. The same with Manchuria. I tested building Major Industrial Complexes as Japan in both territories - and the engine correctly prohibited placing those factories in either territory.

    I'm sorry! You're right, I totally missed that (I was skimming the 40 pages). It could hardly be more clear than that, "When the rules refer to the “original controller” of a territory, they mean the power whose emblem is printed on the territory. (A few territories in China have a Chinese emblem on them but are controlled by Japan at the start of the game. These territories are considered to belong to China originally, but have been captured by Japan.)"

    Actually, the game allowed me to put a Major Industrial Complex in Korea, and I thought it was allowing one in Manchuria as well, but it doesn't. Sorry about my mistake, and thanks for info!