Future of TripleA
I thought I would share some of the ideas I had to help modernize the game and hopefully secure its longevity and growth. I'd like to see the game itself carry the features I've been attempting to create with the Revised Player Chart and what was to be the website.
It all boils down to development, which I know is not very active at the moment. It is my hope that we can raise funds to hire some talented devs from fivver or similiar platforms to tackle these implementations.
My vision is as follows:
Game has ability to import/export data from external sites:
1.) Custom bots include ability to register/login to external site.
2.) Accessing user files from site, such as loading saves from server.
3.) Exporting game data to external site or an internal stats/ladder system.
4.) Direct messaging to other registered members.
5.) Admin options to include or restrict maps as sorting through current maps is cumbersome.
6.) User profiles. Time zone/schedules/game history/messenging.
7.) Simplification of donation system, such as a button redirect, in-game.
8.) Ability to recognize and click hyperlinks, such as game forum.
9.) League / Tournament options for custom bots.
10.) Automatic ELO scoring, adjacent to players name in lobby/game.
These are just a few things I've rattled off in my head. I'm sure there are several more suggestions that will follow. I strongly feel integration is the key to growing this amazing game and will do whatever I can to help!
@airwalker lot fo interesting suggestions there not sure i understand the first 3 tho
i'm wondering if folks would b e interested in doing a monthly or bimonthly devchat can be a great way to get momentum going with open source projects
@ubernaut Great idea, I'd absolutely be open to a monthly dev chat.
@airwalker I'm not really seeing how TripleA can be played competitively in real time without a timer, so I think that would be a requisite for anything like your point 10.
Currently, it is just a gentleman thing to try to keep your gameplay time reasonably contained, and I think this would not work well once you add a rating system (and I'm saying this without even taking into account the possibility of playing painfully slow on purpose).
On this matter, I believe nobody ever gave an exact description of how the timer system worked on a well known commercial version akin to a couple TripleA games. That would be interesting to know for those that were never part of that community.
I think your suggestion at point 5 is unclear (about how it should work, exactly).
ice1 last edited by ice1
im not a tech guy so forgive me if im missing the obvious
but why promote bot usage when bots cost allot of money
people hosting there own games is much cheaper right? whynot promote hosting or make it easyer in a way i have no idea about
@ice1 Actually, I think the community should take over running the bots. What I am hoping for is the code for the bots to be modified to allow customization for the host. For example, I run 3 of my own bots on my personal server at home right now. If I had the ability to capture the data from the bots and upload or download from a server, it would be easy to integrate into other platforms ( such as my spreadsheet at https://bit.ly/rev-stats ).
@cernel I like the idea of a timer, something akin to a bot option where the players can agree upon time per turn before loading. I'm not sure why it would need to be a requirement though. The ELO is only changed when the game has been completed, so as long as there is a way to mark the game in this capacity I see no issue.
The ELO is only changed when the game has been completed, so as long as there is a way to mark the game in this capacity I see no issue.
With any rating systems, there will be issues where players will contest each other. This can also escalate into situations which will require moderation.
Anyway, I'm not sure if you are thinking about some sort of automated system (like online chess, in which the rating is modified as soon as the game ends) or some sort of "honour" system, in which any changes must result from both the winner and the loser acknowledging the outcome.
@cernel Well I was thinking these types of technical descriptions would be better left to a monthly discussion as proposed by ubernaut but I'd be happy to give you a brief summary.
If the bot can communicate with an outside server, said server could employ rules based on what its owner decides. For instance, I lets say I want to create a server for Global 1940. I want to create a ladder / tournaments / leagues etc. The rules are up to the server admin, but are ported over to the bot being used. In such instance I would need the bot to allow the players to login. When players are logged in they can retrieve games saved on the server under their login or start a new game with other registered players.
The game would have a way for the game to be marked. An easy option is a button to concede game and automatically mark and save to a completed folder on the server. When the game has that mark, it can be scored. For saves, the moderator of the server can establish an expiration policy if any, and determine what to do when disputes occur.
In my own dataset, out of over 400 games I have only had one dispute and it wasn't contested.
This is a very general idea, and it needs a technical foundation before it can be fully realized, but I hope it gives you some insight into my vision.
Almost forgot one important detail. If the players that are logged into the bot/server have a game that is incomplete, it will not allow them to start a new game. The only option is to continue the save or resolve. I think that if a player goes through the trouble of registering they would be inclined to resolve their games rather than risk being removed due to dishonorable play practices.
In my own dataset, out of over 400 games I have only had one dispute and it wasn't contested.
I've never played ladder myself, but I'm just curious why you are using your own data-set instead of the TripleA Revised ladder (beside the fact that nobody uses the ladder, but I guess you had to convinced persons to join yours anyway).
1.) As you said, no one was using it
2.) Too limited and I have no ability to modify
3.) Wasn't aware of it existance until after I created RPC
4.) Prior users complained about scoring implementation
5.) Different goals. My hope is to improve the players themselves and the quality of games. Giving detailed statistics and information against your opponents is useful. Helping new players progress is more important to me than sorting who's in first and second etc.
Apologies for jumping in, I am extremely new to TripleA, but over the last several months I have been contemplating porting a version of TripleA over to BoardGameArena. I believe this would address a number of the issues listed in the first post (4, 5*, 6, 7, 8?, 9, 10). I was envisioning a very simple start - a single map / single set of rules - but perhaps it is possible to build greater flexibility into the system.
I came to the forum to ask about this possibility and found this thread - I know the game is open source so in theory it can be reused, but one concern is the GPL license: would using the game images (not code) force everything at BGA to also have to be open source due to the GPL license? (it is currently not open source).
Would be grateful to hear what you all think.
@dllahr Good Luck Dave
No Apoloigies necessary:)
@dllahr I am not a lawyer and I have only recently returned to TripleA. With that being said I would assume a GPL can be played anywhere. BUT! It might not be a good idea to do this If they have many of the popular common games (that are available everywhere in North America to purchase) on their site. This would mean they have paid for a license to the trademark owner. It would also mean they have purchased a license to use it on their site. NOW if their games are GPL then there are no worries
(also HI BEE @beelee )
I know the game is open source so in theory it can be reused
This is true for TripleA as a game-engine, but I don't know if this is true for the maps. TripleA itself is an unplayable game-engine because it comes with no maps and no games.
The main thing is that the maps have been made by this or that person, most of whom are unknown and likely currently absent from TripleA, so
- what copyright license every map is under is unclear to me at least, so I guess they are generally fully copyrighted (but I don't know) by the (mostly unknown) TripleA users who made them over the years unless I'm overlooking something.
- for the most part, you cannot ask them what copyrights their maps are under if they even know or knew it.
- you would likely not even know if they violated any copyrights if they did.
@cernel However, there are some maps (downloadable with TripleA) which I would call almost certainly copy-rights free. The map for the "Pact of Steel" game comes to mind. I surmise that should be almost certainly under the same copy-rights as TripleA itself because it is a well know TripleA community made game, whose map also serves as the official TripleA game-making guide, meaning that I assume you should be safe re-making any kind of "Pact of Steel" only game anywhere beside the concerns you expressed. Another example would be "Big World" (being a well known TripleA original and the map to which the official TripleA rules-book refers).
yea seems as if artwork can't be used without permission ? Idk ? veqryn created a folder with all triplea art years ago.
I thought triplea being open source was just a big happy hippie party and one could use what they want.
But that is not the case evidently. I don't think anyone gives af, unless someone trying to make money off there stuff.
but ... yea idk
@dllahr AFAIK all of TripleA is covered under the same GPLv3 license: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/blob/master/LICENSE
"The[..] GPL series are all copyleft licenses, which means that any derivative work must be distributed under the same or equivalent license terms. " 
AFAIK, all parts of TripleA are covered by GPLv3. The usage of those components need to be GPL compliant. If you created a fork of TripleA, and kept the source code publicly available, but in a format that was easy for Board Game Arena to use directly - maybe that might fly. The license text is not necessarily that hard to decipher. If you give it a careful read, it should have an answer for how far you can go. My understanding is that GPL essentially requires all derivative usages to be (1) non-commercial and (2) open-source (as in the source code must be readily available).
The maps are kept as their own entities. Their license is currently not explicit. I would assume that they are all GPLv3 as well.