Arheic Wars / Pangea Proxima A&A

jkprince

@joseph-prince purely in terms of territory/sea zone connections, what layouts create what dynamics?
because I noticed I made a layout too "chess-board" like with territories connected side by side but not diagonally in the north west of the map.

TheDog

@joseph-prince
Personally territory intersections like you have in the NW of your map are a bit political or artificial and the only way they would would exist is if a volcano or similar natural feature would stop armies from moving diagonally.

Better to have the territories offset and/or follow a rivers meandering.

Just my 2p.

jkprince

@thedog I'm just gonna chalk it up to poor northwestern regional infastructure making army movements forced to follow grid-like highways, but I'll make sure to have the rest of the map not on the same formula

RogerCooper

@joseph-prince Where I live (Long Island, NY) most roads follow a grid, making diagonal movement difficult. I have no problem with that on a map.

jkprince

@joseph-prince progress https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/920715220232597564/1206768519069310996/1axisnalliesmaplarger.png?ex=65dd35c3&is=65cac0c3&hm=cbb564868e4297e4da8499fddcd2bea4591b5ec6e04191cbb4a5ab2d0201e613&

by the way, I will make an overview of each nation starting position / strategy soonish

jkprince

@joseph-prince viewers might see that some territories have diagonal grey lines on them.

I want to add a way to make territories "semi-impassable" not by restricting the units that can enter them, but by making it so you effectively have to fight "bad weather" when moving through. How should I go about this?

Should I make it an automatically appearing neutral air unit that can't capture territories? How should I make it punish those who dare defy nature?? Should it do a conventional attack roll, how many dice, or should it have a chance to hit any unit completely random? Should it leave immediately after 1 attack or should it need to be "destroyed"?

RogerCooper

@joseph-prince A capturable anti-aircraft unit would do what you want.

I have considered making a mod where aircraft are cheap, but every area has an anti-aircraft unit to reflect operational attrition.

jkprince

@joseph-prince said in Arheic Wars / Pangea Proxima A&A:

@thedog yeah no, I'm going to keep the map the same scale as the 1940 global map, dealing with this inkscape thing has been a 5 hr waste of time. I can always come back to it with my finished base tiles image later if i want to

when I make units they will be larger 96x96 files though, with their ingame scale set lower
also don't worry about the oceans on both sides of pangea proxima, i will place important things for game mechanics there

thinking of a diplomacy mechanic area (https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/95/global-dominance/77?page=4), and two small city siege representations

mostly the diplomatic mechanic though, I want to make it a very important element while also something that the AI can understand
and also make it so that the nations do diplomacy to each other, not just one-way interaction to bring nations into the war. even including diplomacy between warring powers (yes, I might even make a alt rules version that's FFA but with teaming ig? I don't know why but the idea feels fascinating to me)

some other things i saw in the global dominance thread:

is it true you can use edit mode to build the setup, and then easily copy to xml? want to know in advance
i would like to know all ways to make mapmaking easier. is there a thread for useful tips?

TheDog

@joseph-prince

diplomacy mechanic

Most maps that simulate politics are done randomly with little to no relationship with what is happening on the map. The maps typically default to everyone at war with each other.

This is the only map that has politics using xml foreach, meaning to code it is hundreds of lines of xml code verses thousands of lines.
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3146/the-shogun-official-thread
Its BIG brother is
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3666/shogun-advanced-official-thread
But its xml code is complex in comparison to The Shogun
Search for GO POLITICS in both xmls.

The other important thing you will need is to have 5,7,9 levels of diplomatic relationships.
Like this map
Another World under the Good Quality tab
It has 9 levels of diplomatic relationships, search relationshipType

Then you will need trigger logic for each nation and what their neighbours are doing on their borders. AFAIK this has not been attempted/coded.

jkprince

@thedog I think, drawing from those other maps and also considering this map is significantly smaller in scope, I could with time pull it off

jkprince

@joseph-prince short blurb for game-notes

In 131, the good times finally ended. The thaw of the Indii undersea equalization patterns caused the ancient problem of the “Propenthasic drainage” to throw itself into fast-motion. Within only a few years, the entire basin dried, losing over half its depth worth of water to the outside global ocean, becoming so shallow that deep bottomed boats could no longer navigate it. The environment of the world’s central regions desertified, with hypertoxic rain and saltstorms wreaking havoc with farming and trade.
The social, economic and diplomatic situation went into freefall. Previously prosperous coastal cities like Neo-Calibri, Ganjgha and Arial shrank to fractions of their former sizes and had too little to feed those that remained, while regions that were relatively unaffected still strained under the weight of refugees. People lost their homes, jobs and even lives.
The global reactions to this crisis varied. Rhombus collapsed into civil war in 136 when its government proved unable to navigate countermeasures while juggling the issues of speciesist cults, political extremists and mercenary/crime syndicates simultaneously.
Staria booted out its directocrat regime in favour of new eco-revanchist foreign policy, and intervened in Rhombus, establishing a Social Republic there. With outside trade and resources temporarily secured, they turned to the Circulean border. Tensions were high, and in 137, the Edjish War saw extensive skirmishes as both sides tested the waters.
Finally, in late 138, after a car attack on the ruling Circulean royals, Operation Gazeta resulted in a decisive victory for Starian land forces as they effectively destroyed the Circulean ExpidFor in a single month. But by contrast, their previously oft-touted up-and-coming navy was crippled by a joint Circ-Tria task force during the Falkkape engagement, losing most of its capital ships and screens, leaving only a shell of destroyers and submarines to protect the shores let alone project power.

By the turn of 139, most of the world is still at peace, but a war of a different sort rages. As the tatters of the Circulean elites battle the Starians in the urban fighting of Frontera, diplomats push and pull on the Triangulum and Hexagona to take their historic sides. As the Starian-sponsored Socialists fight the Republican Army cliques and Pentagonic mercenaries in 3-way civil war over Rhombus, the other nations formerly composing the Quadrilateral weigh their own options. As the leftovers of the Starian navy grapple with the supposedly neutral Triangulic fleet, spies carry out secret missions and scientists build new secret weapons.
Soon enough, the conflict will expand in size and scope to unprecedented measures…

jkprince

@joseph-prince I made some changes to the naval units, adding a 10 IPC "Escort Carrier" (basically half of a normal Carrier but being more flexible and also more costly). I also gave Transports a roll of 1 on defense but increased their cost, while leaving Submarines the same. Is that a bad idea? I dunno but it allows me to get rid of the rules based around that

RogerCooper

@joseph-prince Giving transports a defense is good. The AI plays better and realistically transports would also have some escorts.

RogerCooper

@joseph-prince It is good that you are providing some background for the game. You should probably have paragraph discussing each power.

jkprince

@joseph-prince

I'm finishing the map and am going to start making unit images. Here are some examples from the four southern nations (not indicators of how their gameplay will be, I will make a paragraph for each power eventually)

Preemtive question answering

White outline with the brightly coloured units? That's a contrast disaster...
Don't worry, the black background is there for a reason- I'm going to make the map fairly dark in terms of nation control colours, background relief and the like. It'll give the unit sprites visual pop in the foreground.

Hmm, something seems off about all the vehicles apart from the warships...
Because they were modeled in 3D using MagicaVoxel and then exported in 2D. Meanwhile, the ships I traced manually from references, making them a bit cleaner. The infantry was also drawn normally in GIMP.

The top left icons are wacky. Especially the cartoonish ones for the warships...
I attempted to be original, because I didn't want to steal everything from Iron War or something. But yeah, the naval icon idea didn't work, so maybe I'll take Iron War's as inspiration, just for the naval units. Suggestions welcome...

Y'know what's really off? The infantry are furr- er, anthropomorphic animals.
Don't crimp my very "individual visual style"! I can draw what I want! Besides, a setting with nations named after shapes (legacy worldbuilding) needn't take itself seriously. If it comforts you, foot sloggers die a lot.

What about Diamond, Square and Rhombus? The other three quadrilateral nations...
Working on it, I've already finished all the flags. I will send a screenshot right away.
Also, I forgot to include in the OG list, there is a final nation, Trapezoid. It's less a nation and more an unorganized faction of desert nomads, bandits and trade guilds that work together to defend collective borders. I.E, a neutral nation that will constantly, alongside the weather itself, actively punish you as long as you occupy the global central desert. The Trapezoids also occasionally represent other small global non-aligned factions.

jkprince

RogerCooper

@jkprince Go with those furry anthropomorphic animals. It is even logical as this scenario involves an alternate history diverging at least 200MYA. Why should there be humans?

jkprince

@rogercooper When I really starting properly working on the setting last year and declared my general thematic intents for it in the AC2 discord, most were fine with it except for one dissenter, a good fellow called YARD, who I had worked with previously on his Overhaul Mod for the game.
He called me out for creative bankruptcy and anthropocentrism and said that I should've went with something significantly more alien, that I dip into speculative biology, bringing up the "carcinization" meme.

I replied that the ship had sailed, I had never once in working on the setting for the previous two years, considered having the population of the setting be non-humanoids, and that to change it would require throwing a lot of previous content out the window. Then I mentioned a lot of legacy worldbuilding I had previously dropped (immediately disproving my own point)

There was some more carcinization memery and then I gave in, because while I was unwilling to touch the southern polygon nations that had already had their worldbuilding developed extensively, the northern quadrilateral ones had barely been started. And so it goes- here is a typical Squarish infantry soldier.

jkprince

PHASES IN EACH TURN

Combat Move (also includes Diplomacy, which is done with special combat units in a "arena" with various tracks on the right side of the board)
Conduct Combat (It will still be done with 6-sided dice, it just feels right to me even if it makes for less unit variety)
Non-Combat (semi-redundant within TripleA system, mostly for landing planes)
Purchase/Repair and 5. Mobilize New Units (The Arheic Wars setting combines the WW2 period with modern electronics, so digital economic coordination is easier. Also makes it so you don't have to guess what you'll need at the end of a round you're going to play through)
Collect Income

(will moving Purchase to be right before Mobilization make AI play faster, or will it break AI? Want to know in advance.)

TURN ORDER

Starian Treaty-Aligned Republics (Coalition)
Begins at war, has to press its advantage as hard as possible before Alliance hits back.

Circulean Impe-Royal Confederation (Alliance)
First turns will be spent on desperate damage control, use the Triangulic navy till you lose it

Diamond Direct Democracy (Neutral)
Will wait many turns to enter the game- acts as a counterbalance to offset Square's "sleeping giant" value

Square Sectocracy (Neutral)
Will spend the entire game as the epicentre of the main diplomatic tug-of-war, potentially not entering the war at all.

Trapezoid Tradeguilds (True Neutral)
Blocks off the middle of the map to make the playable space more of a "donut", makes shortcut attempts costly

Triangulic Thalassocracy (Neutral, Alliance-leaning)
Starts neutral but with its giant navy transferred to Circulean control. Will probably join Alliance within first few turns

Rhombic Republic (semi-Alliance)
Starts at war with Staria, won't go to war with Hexagona. Has to unify their subcontinent before they can really fight

Hexagonan Hegemony (Neutral, Coalition-leaning)
Has powerful special units and economy, also will probably be brought on the Coalition in first few turns.

More detailed info on each nation's playstyle is to come... eventually... any day now lol

RogerCooper

@jkprince Purchase before mobilize works fine, I have player a number of scenarios that use it. It is faster than buy/move/fight/place.