Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier
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Hi there, imo the assignment for aircarft and carriers would be a good feature if there are more than 1 carrier in a sz, especially when there are carriers of more nations. Similar to transports and ground units. Thanks for your feedback.
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My understanding of this is that air unit are always in the air. When a carrier moves, air units must use their own movement to catch-up with that carrier. If a carrier is removed as a causality during combat the accompanying air units are given a chance to land nearby. Thus, assigning air units to a specific carrier makes little since because the units do not share consequences
The exception being air unit with allied carriers during the allied carriers turn. If the carrier is moved into battle the air unit is carried, and thus cannot participate and is lost if the carrier is removed.
My 2¢
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton thx for your answer.
Here is an example:
Germanys turn:
In the med are 1 german and 1 italian carrier. Both of them are empty germany lands 2 aircraft in the sz in which the carriers are.
Here are the differences:- Two german aircraft lands on german carrier, italian carrier stays empty:
- Italy can attack with its carrier and can land 2 aircraft on it
- Two german aircraft lands on italian carrier, german carrier stays empty:
- Italy can attack with its carrier, but can not land aircraft on it. If the italian carrier is hit or even sunk the 2 german aircraft is stuck/sunk on/with carrier
- One german aircraft lands on german carrier and one german aircraft lands on italian carrier:
- Italy can attack with its carrier, but can only land one aircraft on italian carrier, if the carrier is hit or even sunk the one german aircraft is stuck/sunk on/with carrier.
I hope this helps to illustrate the issue?
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My understanding of the issue is that it is rather about TripleA's lack of capability to specify exactly on which carrier a plane lands during NCM.
Currently players have to use the comment log to keep track and inform their opponent(s).Am I correct, @fasthard ?
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@panther yes
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In other words: Currently - if you want to move an Italian carrier carrying a German plane as cargo - you need to use Edit Mode for the plane (to "move the cargo-plane with the carrier") .
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@fasthard said in Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier:
Italy can attack with its carrier and can land 2 aircraft on it
This is where I start to become confused. The empty Italian carrier attacks. Did it move. No, an enemy spawned a warship into that sea zone and the Italian player has elected to attack it on its turn. The German aircraft cannot aid with this attack. It does not matter where the aircraft started because the German carrier is in the same sea zone, so the aircraft are in the air, defending both carriers from attack.
This is a falsify which I find with the rule interpretation. Air units need to end their non-combat movement in a location which they can land. This does not mean that these unit are now treated as land/sea unit. They are air units and are always treated as such. The only time air unit are not treated as air unit is when the only location they can land is an allied carrier, and this is only during carrier combat movement and ensuing battle.
But I have another one for you. The Italian carrier has two German fighters with it. During the German non-combat movement a German carrier entered the sea zone carrying two Italian fighters. During the ensuing Italian turn, they want to move their carrier. What fighters go with it?
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton
Let's assume it's italy's turn and italy wants to attack the britsh cruiser in sz91 with 2 ftr from Rome:
If the german ftr are on the german carrier it's no problem, because they can land on the italian carrier.
But if the german ftr are on the italian carrier, they can't because they have no legal landing spot. Hope this helps a little bit. Thx -
@wc_sumpton said in Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier:
My understanding of this is that air unit are always in the air.
Wrong. Beside the case you mentioned of allied aircraft on own carriers during your turn and beside the fact that defending fighters are considered taking off for the combat on the turn it happens only (not being always on the air through all the turns of the round), this is true only from Revised LHTR onwards. In Classic 2nd Edition and Revised non-LHTR (but I'm not sure about the 2nd Edition), air units which are cargo on own or allied carriers at the start of their controller's turn always remain cargo unless the controller decides singularily to have the unit taking off (which is only possible before moving the carrier).
For example, if Revised non-LHTR rules apply and you have a game where the fighter moves 2 spaces and the carrier moves 4 space, you can choose not to fly off the fighter from the carrier thus having it moving up to 4 spaces as cargo.
What you said is however broadly true for TripleA, but this is because TripleA is wrong: on this matter, TripleA uncorrectly applies Revised LHTR and following rules backward to previous rules-sets.
This is a particularly bad TripleA problem for games with fuel costs for aircraft as TripleA does not allow you to save on those costs by leaving the aircraft as cargo (whereas you should have the option to if you are using v1 or v2 rules).
However, for the basic games, the problem factually only arises when you'd rather leave your fighters cargo on allied carriers but are not allowed to (because in every other case there is no reason not to have them taking off as TripleA (wrongly for Classic 2nd Edition and Revised non-LHTR) forces you to do).
However, what you said is true for defending fighters. This means that Classic 2nd Edition and Revised non-LHTR forces you to take off in defence but not in offence (unless you want to use those fighters to attack), whereas Revised LHTR onwards forces taking off both in offence and defence (beside allied fighters on your carriers during your turn).
I'll let @Panther check that all which I've said is correct.
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@fasthard said in Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier:
Hi there, imo the assignment for aircarft and carriers would be a good feature if there are more than 1 carrier in a sz, especially when there are carriers of more nations. Similar to transports and ground units. Thanks for your feedback.
This is not actually a feature request but a problem report (you may want to report it in GitHub) because all you detailed in your following post is actually something which TripleA must handle (but does not).
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@wc_sumpton said in Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier:
@fasthard said in Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier:
Italy can attack with its carrier and can land 2 aircraft on it
This is where I start to become confused. The empty Italian carrier attacks. Did it move. No, an enemy spawned a warship into that sea zone and the Italian player has elected to attack it on its turn. The German aircraft cannot aid with this attack. It does not matter where the aircraft started because the German carrier is in the same sea zone, so the aircraft are in the air, defending both carriers from attack.
This is a falsify which I find with the rule interpretation. Air units need to end their non-combat movement in a location which they can land. This does not mean that these unit are now treated as land/sea unit. They are air units and are always treated as such. The only time air unit are not treated as air unit is when the only location they can land is an allied carrier, and this is only during carrier combat movement and ensuing battle.
I've the feeling you are not getting all right, but I believe you are not being clear enough for me to say anything.
But I have another one for you. The Italian carrier has two German fighters with it. During the German non-combat movement a German carrier entered the sea zone carrying two Italian fighters. During the ensuing Italian turn, they want to move their carrier. What fighters go with it?
Here the answer is simple: only the two German fighters which are nothing but cargo in every rule-set from Revised (LHTR and non-LHTR alike) onwards but can be taken as casualty (but cannot attack) in Classic 2nd Edition.
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@cernel said in Assign aircraft to aircarft carrier:
This is not actually a feature request but a problem report (you may want to report it in GitHub) because all you detailed in your following post is actually something which TripleA must handle (but does not).
Hi Cernel, thx for your answer, though I'm new to the forum I've no idea where to post it? Is this a bug? Do you have a link to thread or a person I can contact?
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@fasthard Beside what is being discussed in
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3817/handling-bugs-features-requests-with-github-projects,
problem reporting is done by making an issue in
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues. -
@cernel Thx for your advise.
I forwarded it here:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/12677open Assign aircraft to carrier #12677
