TWW 3.0.9? NTSH (ax) v (al) ubernaut Game 4

[malmessi]

@ubernaut said:

@malmessi can you share the combat move or before combat autosave?

Sure, I am a good play tester ah ah Us13 turn is what you have to check in ShowHistory

John ALL - Enry AX Usa13.tsvg

[malmessi]

Maybe I solved, manaul says air trasp is a sort of structure and can be bombed,
Not realistic but now I know why TripleA did not trigger a combat

[Panther]

@ubernaut said:

in the first version of this battle ( the transjordan one) @Nothingtoseehere made a retreat with his paratroopers to syria. i declared that an illegal retreat since there were no ground forces in the battle to retreat with other than his amphibious assault inf. that's correct yeah? bc the engine allowed it.

Unless specific rules apply for TWW (I don't know), this your decision is correct for the core games (V3, Global1940).

another odd thing about this battle the engine seems to allow his transport unloading an amphibious assault to retreat from sz 53 to sz 72 (the red sea) even though that path is not crossable for his side since i hold the canal

Sounds odd to me, too. Also it sounds irregular to me, that unloading for an amphibious assault as a consequence of a retreat into a territory that had not been declared during the Conduct Combat Phase should be allowed - but that might be a special rule in TWW (?).

[Cernel]

@Panther said:

@ubernaut said:

in the first version of this battle ( the transjordan one) @Nothingtoseehere made a retreat with his paratroopers to syria. i declared that an illegal retreat since there were no ground forces in the battle to retreat with other than his amphibious assault inf. that's correct yeah? bc the engine allowed it.

Unless specific rules apply for TWW (I don't know), this is correct for core games.

Are you thinking about V3 paratroopers or 1940 paratroopers (beside Classic 3rd Edition paratroopers: I'm sure you are not thinking about those.)?

[Cernel]

I'm asking because, in the case detailed by @ubernaut, I'm fairly certain that retreat is not possible under V3 rules. My understanding is that you need to start the battle with at least 1 non-offloaded and non-paratrooped land unit (which I understand was not present in this case) for your paratroopers to retreat wherever that unit can retreat or could have retreated if it survived.

[Panther]

@Cernel

In V3 Paratroopers may retreat if attacking along with land units from adjacent territories.
As this was not given in that specific case. I confirmed @ubernaut 's decision.

Just for completeness: Paratroopers in Global 1940 may retreat if attacking along with land units from
adjacent territories, too.

I reworded my above answer a bit, to make clear, that 'correct' referred to @ubernaut 's decision - and not to what the engine seemed to have allowed, provided we are under a v3 or Global1940 ruleset.

[Cernel]

@Panther Yah, thanks. It was not clear to me if the correct was for the program or @ubernaut's. I'll take a look at the save (Haven't.) and consider if to make a problem report.

[Cernel]

Yes, there is definitely a program problem here. The program allows paratroopers to retreat whence their air transports entered the embattled territory if they did so from a land zone (in this case, Syria). I'm fairly certain this is not a TWW thing, but I'll test it using V3 just to make sure (as that would also be a better reference for a problem report).

[Cernel]

https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/14988

[ubernaut]

@Cernel did you see the thing with the naval retreat allowing the transport to retreat into sz 72?

@panther the reason it was doing this is bc i scrambled the naval fighters into 53 and can win that battle forcing a retreat of the transport

[ubernaut]

@Panther and thanks for confirming that

[Cernel]

@ubernaut said:

@Cernel did you see the thing with the naval retreat allowing the transport to retreat into sz 72?

I did not look around at all. Can you give me the game-save and tell me which round and whose turn I should look at?

[Nothingtoseehere]

@Cernel: It isn't in the save, just something @ubernaut noticed in testing.

[Cernel]

@Nothingtoseehere said:

@Cernel: It isn't in the save, just something @ubernaut noticed in testing.

Ok. What should I do exactly to reproduce it?

[ubernaut]

@Cernel so wat you need to is load this before battle save:

autosaveBeforeBattle.tsvg

scramble the fighters from transjordan to sz 53 then retreat the german forces in that sea battle sz 72 (the red sea will be available as a retreat option. this should not be possible since allies hold the canal

but also i think there might be a bigger problem here, @panther in naval battle forces should only be able to retreat along the path(s) they followed into battle right?

i have noticed the engine allowing similar alternative not taken paths as retreat options in recent games. in this one i think it allows 4 different option when it should allow only one i believe (sz52)

[ubernaut]

@malmessi this is the turn start i cant tell what is happening in your battle but it sounds like you figured out you accidentally did a bombing raid and not an attack is that right?

[Cernel]

@ubernaut Yah, that's crazy to be sure. You should be able to retreat only to 52 Sea Zone (being whence the transport came).

I confirm the problem (on Windows 10). Do you intend to report it?