TWW 3.0.9? NTSH (ax) v (al) ubernaut Game 4
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in the first version of this battle ( the transjordan one) @Nothingtoseehere made a retreat with his paratroopers to syria. i declared that an illegal retreat since there were no ground forces in the battle to retreat with other than his amphibious assault inf. that's correct yeah? bc the engine allowed it.
Unless specific rules apply for TWW (I don't know), this is correct for core games.
Are you thinking about V3 paratroopers or 1940 paratroopers (beside Classic 3rd Edition paratroopers: I'm sure you are not thinking about those.)?
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I'm asking because, in the case detailed by @ubernaut, I'm fairly certain that retreat is not possible under V3 rules. My understanding is that you need to start the battle with at least 1 non-offloaded and non-paratrooped land unit (which I understand was not present in this case) for your paratroopers to retreat wherever that unit can retreat or could have retreated if it survived.
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In V3 Paratroopers may retreat if attacking along with land units from adjacent territories.
As this was not given in that specific case. I confirmed @ubernaut 's decision.Just for completeness: Paratroopers in Global 1940 may retreat if attacking along with land units from
adjacent territories, too.I reworded my above answer a bit, to make clear, that 'correct' referred to @ubernaut 's decision - and not to what the engine seemed to have allowed, provided we are under a v3 or Global1940 ruleset.
Don't always trust TripleA when it comes to rules questions. Know the rules before you start … and better check what TripleA has done.
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Yes, there is definitely a program problem here. The program allows paratroopers to retreat whence their air transports entered the embattled territory if they did so from a land zone (in this case, Syria). I'm fairly certain this is not a TWW thing, but I'll test it using V3 just to make sure (as that would also be a better reference for a problem report).
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@Panther and thanks for confirming that
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@Cernel did you see the thing with the naval retreat allowing the transport to retreat into sz 72?
I did not look around at all. Can you give me the game-save and tell me which round and whose turn I should look at?
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@Cernel so wat you need to is load this before battle save:
scramble the fighters from transjordan to sz 53 then retreat the german forces in that sea battle sz 72 (the red sea will be available as a retreat option. this should not be possible since allies hold the canal
but also i think there might be a bigger problem here, @panther in naval battle forces should only be able to retreat along the path(s) they followed into battle right?
i have noticed the engine allowing similar alternative not taken paths as retreat options in recent games. in this one i think it allows 4 different option when it should allow only one i believe (sz52)
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@malmessi this is the turn start i cant tell what is happening in your battle but it sounds like you figured out you accidentally did a bombing raid and not an attack is that right?
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@ubernaut Yah, that's crazy to be sure. You should be able to retreat only to 52 Sea Zone (being whence the transport came).
I confirm the problem (on Windows 10). Do you intend to report it?
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@ubernaut
Game HistoryRound: 15 Reconnaissance Missions - Finland Finland collect 0 PUs; end with 10 PUs Reinforcing - DanubeAxis DanubeAxis collect 0 PUs; end with 12 PUs Counter Intelligence Operations - VichyFrance VichyFrance collect 0 PUs; end with 7 PUs Research Technology - Germany Trigger germanaTAM: Germany gains access to AdvancedMechanization Germany roll 11,3,9,5,7,7,2,9,8,1,4,11,9,8,3,12,10,12 and gets 2 hits Germany removing all Technology Tokens after successful research. Germany discover AdvancedProduction Politics - Germany Germany spend 5 PUs on Political Action: Political Action AxisProposeAlliancewithSweden Political Action AxisProposeAlliancewithSweden : rolling (1 out of 15) result: 4 = Failure! Germany fails on action: Political Action AxisProposeAlliancewithSweden Combat Move - Germany Trigger germanAL4: Setting transportCapacity to 7 for unitAttachment attached to Train Trigger germanAirtraninfra1: Setting isInfrastructure to false for unitAttachment attached to germanAirTransport Trigger germanAirtraninfra1: Setting attack to 1 for unitAttachment attached to germanAirTransport Trigger germanAirtraninfra1: Setting destroyedWhenCapturedBy cleared for unitAttachment attached to germanAirTransport Trigger germanL4: Setting movement to 6 for unitAttachment attached to Train Trigger germanL2: Setting movement to 3 for unitAttachment attached to Truck Trigger germanHvyTank1: Setting isLandTransportable to false for unitAttachment attached to germanHeavyTank Trigger germanTank1: Setting isLandTransportable to false for unitAttachment attached to germanTank Trigger germanMecht3: Setting isLandTransportable to false for unitAttachment attached to germanMech.Infantry Trigger germanMecht4: Setting isLandTransportable to true for unitAttachment attached to germanMech.Infantry Trigger germanHvyTank2: Setting isLandTransportable to true for unitAttachment attached to germanHeavyTank Trigger germanTank2: Setting isLandTransportable to true for unitAttachment attached to germanTank Britain scrambles 2 units out of Trans Jordan to defend against the attack in 53 Sea Zone Britain scrambles to create a battle in territory 53 Sea Zone Battle in 53 Sea Zone Italy loiter and taunt; Germany attack with 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanFighter, 1 germanTacticalBomber and 1 germanTransport Britain defend with 2 britishNavalFighters Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanFighter, 1 germanTacticalBomber and 1 germanTransport in 53 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1,08 expected hits Britain roll dice for 2 britishNavalFighters in 53 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1,00 expected hits 1 germanFighter owned by the Germany lost in 53 Sea Zone 2 britishNavalFighters owned by the Britain lost in 53 Sea Zone Germany win with 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanTacticalBomber and 1 germanTransport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 11 Casualties for Germany: 1 germanFighter Casualties for Britain: 2 britishNavalFighters Battle in Trans Jordan Germany attack with 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 3 germanFighters, 3 germanInfantrys and 2 germanParatroopers Britain defend with 1 Flagpole, 1 Truck, 1 britishAirfield, 1 britishAntiAirGun, 2 britishArtillerys and 1 britishInfantry Britain roll AntiAircraftGun dice in Trans Jordan : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 3 germanFighters, 3 germanInfantrys and 2 germanParatroopers in Trans Jordan, round 2 : 1/10 hits, 2,75 expected hits Britain roll dice for 1 britishAntiAirGun, 2 britishArtillerys and 1 britishInfantry in Trans Jordan, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1,08 expected hits 1 germanParatrooper owned by the Germany lost in Trans Jordan 1 britishInfantry owned by the Britain lost in Trans Jordan Britain roll AntiAircraftGun dice in Trans Jordan : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 3 germanFighters, 3 germanInfantrys and 1 germanParatrooper in Trans Jordan, round 3 : 1/9 hits, 2,58 expected hits Britain roll dice for 1 britishAntiAirGun and 2 britishArtillerys in Trans Jordan, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits 2 germanInfantrys owned by the Germany lost in Trans Jordan 1 britishArtillery owned by the Britain lost in Trans Jordan Britain roll AntiAircraftGun dice in Trans Jordan : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 3 germanFighters, 1 germanInfantry and 1 germanParatrooper in Trans Jordan, round 4 : 3/7 hits, 2,25 expected hits Britain roll dice for 1 britishAntiAirGun and 1 britishArtillery in Trans Jordan, round 4 : 2/2 hits, 0,50 expected hits 1 germanInfantry owned by the Germany and 1 germanParatrooper owned by the Germany lost in Trans Jordan 1 britishAntiAirGun owned by the Britain and 1 britishArtillery owned by the Britain lost in Trans Jordan Germany win with 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport and 3 germanFighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2 Casualties for Germany: 3 germanInfantrys and 2 germanParatroopers Casualties for Britain: 1 britishAntiAirGun, 2 britishArtillerys and 1 britishInfantry Battle in Urals Germany attack with 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 1 germanFighter, 1 germanMech.Infantry, 2 germanParatroopers and 1 germanTacticalBomber Russia defend with 1 Flagpole, 1 Rail, 1 ResearchCenter, 1 russianAircraftPlant, 1 russianAirfield, 1 russianBarracks, 1 russianFighter and 1 russianInfantry Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 1 germanFighter, 1 germanMech.Infantry, 2 germanParatroopers and 1 germanTacticalBomber in Urals, round 2 : 1/6 hits, 1,92 expected hits Russia roll dice for 1 russianFighter and 1 russianInfantry in Urals, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 0,83 expected hits 1 germanMech.Infantry owned by the Germany and 1 germanParatrooper owned by the Germany lost in Urals 1 russianInfantry owned by the Russia lost in Urals Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 1 germanFighter, 1 germanParatrooper and 1 germanTacticalBomber in Urals, round 3 : 2/4 hits, 1,42 expected hits Russia roll dice for 1 russianFighter in Urals, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,42 expected hits 1 germanFighter owned by the Germany lost in Urals 1 russianFighter owned by the Russia lost in Urals Germany captures one of Russia capitals Some non-combat units are destroyed: Germany win with 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport, 1 germanParatrooper and 1 germanTacticalBomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6 Casualties for Germany: 1 germanFighter, 1 germanMech.Infantry and 1 germanParatrooper Casualties for Russia: 1 russianFighter and 1 russianInfantry Battle in Morrocco Germany attack with 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter, 2 germanInfantrys and 1 germanNavalFighter ExiledAllies defend with 1 Flagpole; Usa defend with 1 americanInfantry Germany roll dice for 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter, 2 germanInfantrys and 1 germanNavalFighter in Morrocco, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1,33 expected hits ExiledAllies roll dice for 1 americanInfantry in Morrocco, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,25 expected hits 1 americanInfantry owned by the Usa lost in Morrocco Germany win with 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter, 2 germanInfantrys and 1 germanNavalFighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Usa: 1 americanInfantry Battle in Northern Norway Germany attack with 1 germanInfantry and 2 germanNavalFighters ExiledAllies defend with 1 Flagpole; Britain defend with 1 britishInfantry Germany roll dice for 1 germanInfantry and 2 germanNavalFighters in Northern Norway, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits ExiledAllies roll dice for 1 britishInfantry in Northern Norway, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 britishInfantry owned by the Britain lost in Northern Norway Germany win with 1 germanInfantry and 2 germanNavalFighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Britain: 1 britishInfantry 1 germanInfantry moved from Novgorod to Vologda Germany take Vologda from Russia 1 germanInfantry moved from Eastern Ukraine to Caucasus Germany take Caucasus from Russia 1 germanInfantry moved from Norway to Central Norway Germany take Central Norway from ExiledAllies 1 germanInfantry moved from Northern Finland to Northern Norway 2 germanNavalFighters moved from Norway to Northern Norway 1 germanInfantry moved from Algeria to Morrocco 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Southern Spain to Morrocco 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter moved from Western Germany to Morrocco 1 germanFighter moved from Algeria to 53 Sea Zone 1 germanMech.Infantry moved from Archangel to Urals 1 germanAirTransport and 2 germanParatroopers moved from Kharkov to Urals 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanFighter and 1 germanTacticalBomber moved from Orel Kursk to Urals 1 germanAdvancedFighter moved from Turkey to 53 Sea Zone 3 germanInfantrys moved from Romania to 55 Sea Zone 3 germanInfantrys and 1 germanTransport moved from 55 Sea Zone to 53 Sea Zone 3 germanInfantrys moved from 53 Sea Zone to Trans Jordan 1 germanTacticalBomber moved from Kharkov to 53 Sea Zone 1 germanAdvancedFighter moved from Turkey to Trans Jordan 3 germanFighters moved from Eastern Turkey to Trans Jordan 1 germanAirTransport and 2 germanParatroopers moved from Southern Ukraine to Trans Jordan 1 germanInfantry moved from Algeria to Morrocco Germany take Urals from Russia Germany take Morrocco from ExiledAllies Germany take Northern Norway from ExiledAllies Non Combat Move - Germany Trigger germanIL2: Setting isAirTransportable to true for unitAttachment attached to germanCombatEngineer Trigger germanMecht1: Setting isLandTransport to true for unitAttachment attached to germanMech.Infantry Trigger germanAL6: Setting isAirTransportable to true for unitAttachment attached to germanInfantry Trigger germanAL6: Setting isAirTransportable to true for unitAttachment attached to germanMarine Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Germany from 53 Sea Zone: 1 germanTacticalBomber EDIT: Adding units owned by Germany to Crete: 1 germanFighter EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Trigger IncomeRegulationVichy1: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachmentYesVichy attached to VichyFrance Trigger germanAL5: Setting transportCapacity to 5 for unitAttachment attached to Train Trigger germanAirtraninfra2: Setting isInfrastructure to true for unitAttachment attached to germanAirTransport Trigger germanAirtraninfra2: Setting attack to 0 for unitAttachment attached to germanAirTransport Trigger germanAirtraninfra2: Setting destroyedWhenCapturedBy to FROM:Germany for unitAttachment attached to germanAirTransport Trigger germanL5: Setting movement to 5 for unitAttachment attached to Train Trigger germanL3: Setting movement to 2 for unitAttachment attached to Truck Trigger germanIL3: Setting isAirTransportable to false for unitAttachment attached to germanCombatEngineer Trigger germanAL7: Setting isAirTransportable to false for unitAttachment attached to germanInfantry Trigger germanAL7: Setting isAirTransportable to false for unitAttachment attached to germanMarine Trigger germanMecht2: Setting isLandTransport to false for unitAttachment attached to germanMech.Infantry Trigger germanProd: Germany has 1 Material placed in Berlin 1 germanAirTransport moved from Trans Jordan to Syria 1 germanAdvancedFighter, 1 germanAirTransport and 1 germanTacticalBomber moved from Urals to Archangel 1 germanAdvancedFighter moved from 53 Sea Zone to Kharkov 1 germanInfantry and 1 germanMech.Infantry moved from Leningrad to Archangel 1 Truck and 1 germanInfantry moved from Eastern Germany to Eastern Poland 1 Material and 1 Truck moved from Eastern Poland to Western Ukraine 1 germanCombatEngineer moved from Romania to Western Ukraine 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter moved from Western France to Crete 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Vichy France to Crete 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter and 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Morrocco to Algeria 2 Trucks and 2 germanInfantrys moved from Southern Ukraine to Voronezh 1 germanCombatEngineer and 2 germanInfantrys moved from Kharkov to Voronezh 1 germanTacticalBomber moved from Poland to Kharkov 1 germanAdvancedNavalFighter moved from Norway to Kharkov 2 germanInfantrys moved from Orel Kursk to Voronezh 1 Truck moved from Western Ukraine to Romania 1 Truck, 1 germanInfantry and 1 germanTank moved from Romania to Kharkov 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Northern Norway to Norway 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Northern Norway to Leningrad 1 germanFighter moved from Trans Jordan to Crete 1 Truck moved from Belorussia to Eastern Poland 1 Material and 1 Truck moved from Eastern Poland to Lativa Estonia 1 Truck and 1 germanInfantry moved from Pskov to Archangel 1 Truck and 1 germanArtillery moved from Belorussia to Voronezh 1 germanCombatEngineer and 1 germanMech.Infantry moved from Smolensk to Eastern Karelia 1 germanArtillery moved from Belorussia to Orel Kursk 1 germanAdvancedFighter moved from Trans Jordan to Turkey 2 germanFighters moved from Trans Jordan to Eastern Turkey 1 germanInfantry moved from Eastern Turkey to Syria 1 Train, 1 germanArtillery, 1 germanCombatEngineer and 1 germanInfantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern Spain 1 Train moved from Southern Spain to Paris 3 germanInfantrys moved from Northern Spain to Southern Spain 1 germanCombatEngineer moved from Eastern Poland to Belorussia 1 germanTransport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 27 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer, 1 germanInfantry and 2 germanMarines moved from Copenhagen to 27 Sea Zone 1 Train, 1 germanAntiAirGun and 2 germanInfantrys moved from Northern Italy to Southern Ukraine 1 Train moved from Southern Ukraine to Romania 1 germanInfantry moved from Northern Italy to 47 Sea Zone 1 germanInfantry moved from Vichy France to 47 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer moved from Rome to 47 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer, 2 germanInfantrys and 1 germanTransport moved from 47 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer and 2 germanInfantrys moved from 43 Sea Zone to Algeria 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Eastern Germany to Kharkov 1 germanFighter moved from Eastern Germany to Orel Kursk 1 germanNavalFighter moved from Copenhagen to Northern Germany 2 germanInfantrys moved from Western Germany to Northern Germany 3 germanInfantrys moved from Northern Germany to 27 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer and 1 germanInfantry moved from Eastern Germany to 27 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer, 4 germanInfantrys and 2 germanTransports moved from 27 Sea Zone to 29 Sea Zone 1 germanInfantry moved from Berlin to Northern Germany 1 germanInfantry moved from Finland to 29 Sea Zone 1 germanCombatEngineer and 5 germanInfantrys moved from 29 Sea Zone to Leningrad 1 Truck and 1 germanInfantry moved from Finland to Eastern Karelia 1 germanCombatEngineer, 1 germanMarine and 1 germanTransport moved from 27 Sea Zone to 28 Sea Zone 1 germanArtillery moved from Finland to 28 Sea Zone 1 germanArtillery, 1 germanCombatEngineer, 1 germanMarine and 1 germanTransport moved from 28 Sea Zone to 27 Sea Zone 1 germanInfantry moved from Eastern Finland to Northern Finland 1 germanInfantry moved from Eastern Finland to Leningrad 1 germanAntiTankGun moved from Vichy France to Northern Spain 1 germanInfantry moved from Western France to Northern Spain 2 germanInfantrys moved from Vichy France to Paris 1 Train moved from Eastern Poland to Austria 1 Train, 2 germanAlpineInfantrys and 1 germanInfantry moved from Austria to Southern Spain 1 germanSubmarine moved from 25 Sea Zone to 27 Sea Zone 1 germanSubmarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 27 Sea Zone 3 germanSubmarines moved from 25 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone 1 germanInfantry moved from Southern Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine 2 Trucks moved from Voronezh to Kharkov 1 germanInfantry moved from Low Countries to Northern Germany 1 germanInfantry moved from Northern France to Low Countries 1 germanInfantry moved from Paris to Northern France 1 germanInfantry moved from Smolensk to Novgorod 1 germanArtillery, 1 germanCombatEngineer, 1 germanInfantry and 2 germanMarines moved from 27 Sea Zone to Northern Germany 12 germanArtillerys, 5 germanCombatEngineers, 4 germanInfantrys, 5 germanMech.Infantrys, 5 germanMobileArtillerys and 8 germanTanks moved from Smolensk to Voronezh 1 Truck moved from Voronezh to Orel Kursk Purchase Units - Germany Germany buy 1 Material, 1 Rail, 1 Truck, 1 germanAirTransport, 2 germanAlpineInfantrys, 2 germanDestroyers, 2 germanInfantrys, 2 germanMech.Infantrys, 2 germanMobileArtillerys and 2 germanParatroopers; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens; Place Units - Germany Units in Western Ukraine being upgraded or consumed: 1 Material 1 Rail placed in Western Ukraine 1 germanMech.Infantry and 1 germanMobileArtillery placed in Belorussia 1 germanMech.Infantry and 1 germanMobileArtillery placed in Algeria 1 germanInfantry placed in Paris 1 germanInfantry and 1 germanParatrooper placed in Kharkov 1 Material, 1 germanAirTransport and 1 germanParatrooper placed in Eastern Germany 1 Truck placed in Western Germany 1 germanDestroyer placed in 25 Sea Zone 1 germanDestroyer placed in 27 Sea Zone 2 germanAlpineInfantrys placed in Austria Activate Technology - Germany Germany activating AdvancedProduction Trigger germanImpMech: Setting defense to 4 for unitAttachment attached to germanMech.Infantry Trigger germanImpMech: Setting receivesAbilityWhenWith to canBlitz:germanTank for unitAttachment attached to germanMech.Infantry Turn Complete - Germany Germany collect 88 PUs; end with 88 PUs Trigger germanAP1: Germany met a national objective for an additional 3 Optional[PUs]; end with 91 Optional[PUs] Trigger germanIP: Germany met a national objective for an additional 3 Optional[PUs]; end with 94 Optional[PUs] Objective VichyFrance2: Germany met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 97 PUs Units generate 12 techTokens; Germany end with 12 techTokens Units Change Ownership Some Units in Algeria change ownership: 2 germanCombatEngineers and 2 germanEntrenchments Some Units in Eastern Finland change ownership: 1 germanEntrenchment and 2 germanFortifications Some Units in Northern Finland change ownership: 2 germanEntrenchments Purchase Units - VichyFrance VichyFrance buy 2 germanInfantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Place Units - VichyFrance 2 germanInfantrys placed in Vichy France Turn Complete - VichyFrance VichyFrance collect 6 PUs; end with 7 PUs Units Change Ownership Some Units in Algeria change ownership: 2 germanCombatEngineers and 2 germanEntrenchments Some Units in Vichy France change ownership: 2 germanInfantrys Purchase Units - DanubeAxis DanubeAxis buy 4 germanInfantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Place Units - DanubeAxis 4 germanInfantrys placed in Romania Turn Complete - DanubeAxis DanubeAxis collect 12 PUs; end with 12 PUs Some Units in Romania change ownership: 4 germanInfantrys Purchase Units - Finland Finland buy 3 germanInfantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Place Units - Finland 3 germanInfantrys placed in Finland Turn Complete - Finland Finland collect 10 PUs; end with 11 PUs Units Change Ownership Some Units in Eastern Finland change ownership: 1 germanEntrenchment and 2 germanFortifications Some Units in Finland change ownership: 3 germanInfantrys Some Units in Northern Finland change ownership: 2 germanEntrenchmentsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Britain AntiAircraftGun : -0,50 Germany regular : -2,17 ExiledAllies regular : -0,58 Russia regular : 1,75 Britain regular : 2,58
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