Mega New Elk WIP

[Black_Elk]

I ran a series of HardAI vs itself games, and was pretty pleased with what I was seeing there.

It's a bit hard to compare HardAI vs FastAI in terms of the opening playpattern, since for the most part they are quite similar. Meaning both will tend to target with similar priorities, and they will both edge their attacks. In general they both trade very efficiently by the calc. The computer trades rather less efficiently with it's tanks and mech, or high TUV aircraft and ships, which I think a human is much more likely to preserve. Or similarly where the AI will attack with sufficient fodder to win in airblitz style attack (win by the TUV trade there I mean), but not with 1 ground hitpoint surviving, to capture/block to prevent enemy attacks on the following turn etc. This is sorta the computers main deficiency in my view, it will leave blockers though on the ground, and it non coms very well on the ground with that in mind. On the water rather less so. FastAI is more grab and go esp on amphib, whereas HardAI likes to do that thing where it will float loaded transports to threaten multiple TTs at once, or threaten counter attack. I remember talking to Redrum about that tactic though in the PvP game, where it's often better to just hold position and threaten many attacks, as opposed to committing to one single brawl and telegraphing to the opponent in that way.

They will also edge their defenses and bait defenses. For the most part HardAI and FastAI are very good with bomber fleet screening, and mass air defense positions. This is sorta the deal in the current with Japan vs China/USSR, so China/USSR have high hitpoint but low attack power stacks initially, Japan has a lot of very high value attack units, but with somewhat fewer hitpoints, and the need to sorta suction vacuum a lot of those high power aircraft into the stack defense role in China, so they're not roving as far initially. It's a bit of a balance act there for sure, but basically the idea I like is of China just tying down a very large Japanese army, or a large relative percentage of their TUV, since that's more or less what happened in the war. The contest there sorta hold them at that edge of the logistics limit, or where they can't sprawl as hard, for fear that Allies may move forward on the mainland, and then they need to be in a position to bounce back to deal with it. I think it makes for some nice tension.

North Africa and the Eastern Front both seem to be holding up pretty well. I imagine the human could be somewhat more effective since they have options to expand production right now via round to round purchases, but the HardAI uses what it has pretty well.

For the unit analogy, I think in the OG games you have a situation where you can sorta suspend disbelief and maybe imagine a scale reflected in the fleet composition that somehow matches. Say Japan has like 18 carriers or whatever. Maybe USA has 28 (if we just count the fleet carriers) otherwise it's probably like 100+. But then elsewhere of course Germany and Italy had no Carriers, so for that unit, I think one just has to abstract them into the game unit they are, and the role they serve for gameplay. Imagine it as a battleship or whatever I suppose hehe. Strategic bombers are similar in the way they are used. To me I often imagine that they represent something more abstract.

But anyway, I think in general the idea here is to have a map which mimics global in terms of the ruleset and combat interaction, as a simplistic way of teaching how to also play the more regular game at scale with these sorts of stacks or these sorta of numbers. Where in G40 these sorts of confrontations at this scale may occur in the deep endgame, here it's more like every other battle is at that scale, so just sorta getting used to the higher number and stack contests, but with a very similar flavor. So it remains sorta applicable in that way, to reinforce the the standard play. As an example, I think this board would be a good one to train for air umbrellas using bombers, and where every faction can dark skies to some extent, or try to crack the enigma code on the water when it's like sub stacks vs where air can reach. Should be pretty fun I think

Anyhow quick screen of what HardAI was getting up to. The big breakouts tend to start about round 5 on, and start to sorta heat up from there into the big exchange.
Here we are tapping in on Japan's turn

2025-3-21-UHD-WIP-1940-45_J5.tsvg

And then here at round 8, when computer Allies started a big push in the Med, and an overland crash with KJF vibes hehe

2025-3-21-UHD-WIP-1940-45_J8.tsvg

Pretty amusing to watch how it will position vs itself. I think right now the only faction that's a bit out of sync is perhaps Anzac, since they do more saving of cash round to round, their production placement might be a slightly be low for their income per turn. They may need another Factory_Minor in Melbourne, or just a Major at Sydney, so they're not too hamstrung. France is similar, very low production relative to income, though Anzac collects somewhat heavier, so prob why there income kept climbing hehe. Anyhow, felt pretty cool. Good times!

[beelee]

@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:

I ran a series of HardAI vs itself games, and was pretty pleased with what I was seeing there.

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:

I think right now the only faction that's a bit out of sync is perhaps Anzac, since they do more saving of cash round to round, their production placement might be a slightly be low for their income per turn. They may need another Factory_Minor in Melbourne, or just a Major at Sydney, so they're not too hamstrung.

ANZAC has a factory_minor at Christchurch and Sydney Canberra with a maximum of 6 production per turn. Making Sydney Canberra a factory_major would increase their production to 13. This, I think, would serve them better. A new factory_minor at Melbourne (Pt. Moresby or Guadalcanal would be better by spreading their production) would only increase their production to 9, which I think would still be constructive. I do think doing both could also be a though.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:

France is similar, very low production relative to income

The French start with plenty of production. It's just easy for Germany and/or Italy to knock them off, at which point they are given a free factory_minor. Maybe they are collecting/saving to much. Maybe, because they have no Capital, their leftover income could be removed/reduced.

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Makes sense to me, we can take it major for parity with the other factions. So one could assume the Chinese factory in Peking was downgraded similar to what happens to Paris on G1, and then everyone's got at least that thing going on for their starting capital location. I think its fun to have some spots that are build capable but not down at the outset, just to leave that option open. So maybe some strat where they expand buying another minor in one of their more peripheral spots that's near Japan and USA, or maybe they tuck up closer to India, or perhaps they might expand in Melbourne for more safety. Or they just work with what they have at the start and buy more air and ships and such. Seems like it should be pretty solid. It's nice that it worked out holding the production value per tile pretty low which seems easy to read. Looks nice

Only clip I saw when scanning around for the labels was on Azores, just west of Portugal where the PU/name clips outside the place.

Otherwise looks pretty good to me. I say we could lock it in and then get the unit place around these, just to have the nice read on first launch. Like just blanking or shifting the place there if it's units, or like airbases, naval bases or factories etc on top of the labels and such in these positions, and dance the unit place into swing hehe. I think the overflows are pretty good nothing jumped out too hardcore.

ps. Oh also, I think currently if launching no tech in the game options the VCs will blank back out. For the display I mean. I'd been running one with the tech option set to off, since computer was constantly rolling for it. For that one capitals would show up, and the stats still, but not the others. Wasn't sure there, I just ran a few more with the tech on to see how often it would get activated. If I first launch the game, save, then switch to HardAI or no tech development worked as normal from the save.

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:

Oh also, I think currently if launching no tech in the game options the VCs will blank back out. For the display I mean. I'd been running one with the tech option set to off, since computer was constantly rolling for it. For that one capitals would show up, and the stats still, but not the others. Wasn't sure there, I just ran a few more with the tech on to see how often it would get activated. If I first launch the game, save, then switch to HardAI or no tech development worked as normal from the save.

I'm not seeing this. All VCs still are in placed and the column is still there, even when I select no technology.

UHD WIP 1940-45 1.37.4.zip
Sydney Canberra changed to factory_major
Chinese/French given artillery for every 8 territories owned without factory/capital
centers, name_place and pu_place for corrected Azores Is.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@Black_Elk, @beelee

Speaking of China/France according to the '40 Pacific Rules even without a capital/factory China is allowed to make limited purchases, and are not given units by territory count (at a 1 for 2 territories, this is a deal as a single infantry cost 3PUs).

Limited purchases with free placement can be worked into the xml. For China, which territories would allow it to purchase artillery? Should the French be allowed to purchase transport/destroyers and what about artillery/tanks/planes?

Just food for thought.

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Looks cool!

Yeah it was weird, perhaps because I was relaunching so many times. I only saw that behavior when loading if all nations were set to hardAI and no human player.

In global, the limited artillery purchase is determined by control of the Burma road, which isn't visualized here but would correspond mainly to the territories between Calcutta and Chunking/Chengdu, so basically Yunnan and N. Burma.

But there are lots of 1 off and restricted rules regarding China, like which units and where the units can go and such. Their aircraft are meant to simulate Allied lend lease type support, Flying tigers and the like, but it's a limiting factor in their regular game, since they're really geared up to just be this kind of hitpoint wall in OOB.

France and China in the standard game are not treated so much like standard factions as they are more abstract game mechanics. So like in the case of France, more as a way to have that big G1 pile trading hands in the opener, or in the case of China as a kind of speedbump or grinder for Japan, but it's pretty asymmetrical there OOB. To hold position they tend to need friendly support, but they often can't advance or not very far, or hard to do when Japan is parking forward defensive fighters, and then Allies are doing the same trying to deadlock. I think a more simplistic way to do it would just be to have some more limited roster available to factions that have been overrun, perhaps that just includes artillery. Although it's not the most flashy unit, it does tend to get the job done when the chip are down.

I think probably we don't want the Chinese going all ham with a bunch of aircraft or warships, since in the box there were never those sculpts available, although here I gave them a full set of graphics just cause it didn't make sense to leave them off when I was tinting all the others. I suppose if trying something along these lines one could just use older games and kitbash those sculpts, but here for simplicity probably just trying to keep to the G40 set up for that. It's pretty impactful for how China works in the regular game since Axis can disrupt that artillery buy if they knock off one of the territories on the road, it's a big driver. I'm not sure we'd be able to make the computer understand though, which is why I was sorta reluctant to say draw a burma road onto the map, which is usually a little red line or a dotted line or something similar. For France somewhat similar, although I suppose it's interesting if they can build a pocket fleet, or have enough variety in their purchase since their placement is pretty low. They also begin play with more unit types and got that full set of sculpts in the box so it's kinda fun to imagine them showboating a bit on this larger thing.

It's a bit of a bind though, because on the one hand it seems appropriate to make each faction feel somewhat viable and entertaining to play even in a solo, but if the impact is too outsized it can make the playbalance and overall playpattern feel a bit off. Or if it departs to much from the vanilla thing I worry it may just introduce extra confusion rather than feel like a simplification of those rules.

Italy is sorta in a similar situation, where as Axis we maybe sorta want them to showboat a bit harder for parity in the med on the water, but then if they're too big Allies stall out a bit and rather than pressing into Italy to destroy the smaller Axis power, they jump up to France and start fighting overland. We lose a bit of that flavor like Invasion of Sicily Naples, or Germany clapping back to control the North and reset those lines. It sorta depends right now on whether Allies can just fully wipe the Regia Marina, which they sometimes pull off in the games I ran, other times Italy holds out a bit better and the Med seems to take a back seat for a while to light trading elsewhere for Allies.

Along the Soviet/Japan front, for the most part was seeing light trading across China and a sorta slow Japanese sprawl around to everywhere else, but then the big fireworks I guess would be like when USSR moves full in along that front. Or if Japan starts creeping up along the coast. Seems to take about 7-8 rounds or so, depending for the dam to really start breaking there, with the current set up. So that seemed pretty good. It's again pretty hard to model a whole total war thing for the possibility of what ifs, while also making that feel somehow delayed or somewhat inactive slower moving front, but where there's a bit of ticking clock on the inevitability of USSR crashing down across that border towards the end. Seemed pretty decent

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk

For a factory_major, when captured it is downgraded to a factory_minor, nothing happens when a factory_minor is captured, maybe it should sustain 3 hitpoints of damage, thus is unusable until repaired. As to the Chinese, all factories captured are destroyed. They will only be given one if they liberate a territory worth 2/3 PUs.

Just thoughts

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Yeah I mean to me this seems sensible, although it is also a novelty, since in the vanilla game a major factory is downgraded to a minor factory upon trading hands, but the only way a factory can be damaged in that game is via the SBR mechanic. Also outside the first turn G1, the capture of a major factory is somewhat rare. It happens on France, then Moscow/India/Berlin etc but for the game at that scale (g40) a lot of times that's pushing well into endgame territory.

So if we introduce the concept of damage that needs to be repaired as something that can crack off as part of the ground game and happens much more regularly, there may be knock on effects there. I worry a bit for unintended consequences, but I think it could work well if implemented as a general rule. The edge case would be where defender abandons factory, attacker has to decide whether it's worth the 3 PUs to shut down opponent's placement (likely, opponent would generally repair in the case of SBR so a bit of a wash) but then on the clap back or deciding whether that is worth it to reclaim. Or if all factories can be bombed to twice the value after that, having factories that are disabled continually might influence the back and forth calculus on whether it's worth it to capture such a spot and risk just the money sink. I mean spot worth 2 PUs but potentially an albatross of 6 in repair. Of course nothing says one has to repair them, so at the basic level, if we're still just going off production value, taking a territory is still going to be a net gain, and it's only if one is trying to influence the placement/repair dynamic that the money involved starts to drift a bit. Still the values there are relatively low. I worry a bit about introducing too much variability through the novel stuff, but this seems like it could work fine, and it fits the theme.

I guess the logical extension would be "but what about the Bases being damaged in such a way too?" or like for a scorched earth mechanic perhaps, which could be similar at the controller's discretion. I think this could also work, but again I worry about biting off more than I can chew, so I would probably put the fork in it, as potentially worth pursuing, but may need refinement in the finer details. One would think computer repair is more predictable probably than what a human player might do, but it's also kinda variable. I think we see sometimes the computer will not repair immediately, other times it may blow it's whole wad on repair, or repair when that's not really needed, or maybe screw itself by not repairing enough hehe. It's a bit difficult because on the one hand it would be much easier to use v3 style factories I think, but the scale of the game otherwise and the g40 roster and bases being involved etc. that all suggests the g40 factory scheme. It's a bit weird though cause like you pointed out, in that game factories/bases are not meant to be completely destroyed, but then the game will sorta violate it's own stated thing with the Chinese auto-removing a factory on those territories if they recapture a spot that starts controlled by Japan, but which is original owner China there.

The territories at issue in vanilla G40 would be Manchuria 2, Shangtung 2, Kiangsu 3. Korea is worth 3 but China cannot move on that spot. Of course they also can't attack into adjacent sea zones with their flying tigers, they have different treatment for convoy blockade stuff etc. Pretty involved. On that board there are no starting Japanese factories along the coast, they have to be built. Here they're already in place. In G40 where China can move is indicated by the double control roundel, shown in that game drawn on. Again sorta involved since in this game starting control/current control is indicated by the paint over color. We do have a control flag option which could be used to show original control in the way the capital puck remains unchanging, but to me that is visually very busy. Also sorta an artifact of the China rules I'm not sure we really need, since we're treating original control somewhat differently here for liberation when faction is without a original capital (eg how stuff is working for them and France right now.) Anyhow, I think I like it though, it feels like it's almost there.

We could trial it see how it works out, or what the computer is doing with it. Provided it doesn't mess up the overall thrust of the thing, I think it's an easy concept to get the head around, capture = damage. It might make sbr somewhat less impactful, but already the computer bombs an alright amount, just on account of more SBR units being around that can do it round to round hehe.

For technology, I think we just need to ditch the standard tech development for now. Also since if the G1 tech phase is when stuff is getting triggered in for like the VCs and tt properties etc using that method. I think that was the issue I was having earlier when if the German player was assigned HardAI, the VCs weren't triggering in for the display, whereas if I started the game as human and had it initialize, then I could save and assign to whatever and all the stuff would show up. For now though, I would just go no tech, but it needs to initialize I think to do all other stuff right?

There some standard techs development advances from G40 the Computer uses well, others not at all. Computer also won't purchase based on the tech advances it has already unlocked. So for example, faction X might roll super subs tech development, but then won't buy any subs. Or they roll radar, which is actually not too bad in terms of something AI can make use of, since it's more passive, but then won't buy any AAguns. Techs that are more useful, stuff like Jets, Long Range Air, Heavy Bombers etc, mainly because all nations tend to buy aircraft, but it's more an accident of their regular purchasing that those techs are useful. Paratroopers it whiffs. War Bonds and super production is uses well, but it's a total mixed bag there. I think for now better not to have development, and to introduce it later with stuff sorta designed around a token scheme and more techs that are universally decent, whether for the human player or computer player.

Anyhow point of the digression being, maybe there is an Industrial tech advance which limits the amount a player has to spend on repair, but not sure we should key the basic thing off that. I think if we can see it working in the no tech game, then we know it probably works alright generally, like proof of concept, after we can then consider what sort of Factory type Techs might be involved, once we know it's working. Right now the rail +1 is tied to operational factory, so it really depends on whether the computer will do it consistently, and not goof their movements too hard as a result of the repair needs. Human player will know what's going on so they probably will make better decisions on the fly

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:

For technology, I think we just need to ditch the standard tech development for now. Also since if the G1 tech phase is when stuff is getting triggered in for like the VCs and tt properties etc using that method. I think that was the issue I was having earlier when if the German player was assigned HardAI, the VCs weren't triggering in for the display, whereas if I started the game as human and had it initialize, then I could save and assign to whatever and all the stuff would show up. For now though, I would just go no tech, but it needs to initialize I think to do all other stuff right?

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing this. I can switch off tech in "Game Options" (Tech Development is unchecked), set Germans to Hard AI (I can set all players to AI) and I will still see the VCs and also the VC count column. But if you are having this problem, the "Tech Development" can be check and everything could be keyed off the first German purchase. No problem.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@Black_Elk, @beelee

mega_new_elk_1940.xml
Added Germans purchase to territory setup
centers, name_place and pu_place still working on Azores Is.

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Must have just been some weirdness in my folder then. I may have goofed somewhere when updating the individual files last round. I'll grab the next from the git see if I can get it figured.

ps. yeah not sure, I'm struggling to reconstruct it from the more recent. Probably I edited a file or let one slip, wouldn't put it past me hehe. I'm sure I'll sync up when I grab the next git iteration.

I think for the game notes I would clip everything except for the current changelog and just have something like "Work In Progress." Current notes are an artifact of porting the global game on top of the other one, but the Veq notes there reference rules and map specifics and change notes that don't apply. I think it might be nice to keep the structure though. Or similar wording, but it refers to lots of unit types or mechanics as 'new' which wouldn't be here, so I can probably just type something out. Put N/A or list whatever has been changed from the standard G40, rather than what was changed in G40 from previous boards. Then just add to the bottom. Example might be like in the units section. Veq's notes and refer to changes from the previous standard boards or stuff that was new from that perspective, so instead of listing new units like mech and airfields, it would just have the Factory Rail base +1 movement described with similar wording

"Units These changes to units are things other than price/movement which you can see in the buy menu.
[... and then it has]
Airfield: Any air that start their turn on the ground territory with an airfield get +1 movement points. Airfields allow up to 3 planes on that island to scramble (see Scramble section above). Airfields can be bombed, and if they have 3 or more damage then they do not provide the movement bonus."

for something that reads more like

'Factory Rail Base: Any ground units that start their turn on the territory with an operational Factory get +1 movement points.'

And if something works same as global that just goes unstated.

Or like where it mentions Politics in that section to say 'All nations start play at war' with the main bullet points there. For Victory Conditions whatever spread. For canals, whichever canals we kept (the standards from smaller boards Panama and Suez.) N/A 'not available' for anything that doesn't apply. Can always add to it later, or clarify what's going on once it's a bit more set.

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk, @beelee

I have pushed capitals, centers, name_place, pu_place, vc and the base xml to GitHub.

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Just grabbed it

I still have the same issue with the zip giving a doubled or nested directory thing
mega_new_elk-master>mega_new_elk-master

I wonder if this could somehow be the issue? hmmm guess not. I did the same thing as last time, first extracting the folder manually, tried it both ways. If I select human for Germany the VCs will list and display.

If I click HardAI for Germany, the VCs will still list but won't display the visual.

That's after deleting the stuff that was in my downloaded maps previously, and redownloading from the current thing off Git. When I first download the zip, it will autoextract when tripleA fires up, but then for the game to list within tripleA, I have to copy out the contents of that nested folder and put it back in the downloaded maps folder with just the single directory. I think it probably happened initially when I posted that compressed zip of the map folder from drive. Basically to get the zip I first had to create an empty zip of the same name in this case 'mega_new_elk-master' and paste into that the folders called map, description, yaml preview readme etc. Otherwise it will reduplicate the folder inside a zip of the same name if I just right click and compress the folder into a zip. Pretty sure that's what happened there, but I still can't figure out why the VC display thing would be happening.

I wonder is it possible to create a new master with a folder name that matches the game name? Like uhd_wip_1940-45-master or whatever instead of mega_new_elk-master if maybe that will allow us to sync it all up at once? For me makes sense to have those match, so the name in the list would match the name of the directories under the hood.

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk

The graphic display has not caught up. Your second picture shows the count of all victory cities, even though at this point the "stars" are not displayed. Because the setting is HardAI the engine has devoted its resources to computing Germans move. If you select the "Territory" tab and mouse over Netherlands, you will see that it is a "Victory City". While preforming the combat move, the display will refresh, and all the stars will appear. This is an engine threading issue, but by the time Germans HardAI turns finishes, all the stars, graphical information will be displayed.

Again, this is a "display" issue. After the Germans HardAI turn, you can select "View History" and check the Germans "Tech Development" and all the setting triggers will have fired prior to the HardAI starting to compute its "Move/Purchase", as the AI first computes movement prior to computing purchase, this is one reason the AI takes so long to perform its first turn.

So, I don't think you have to worry about this issue. The setup has completed, all the information is there for the HardAI to use to compute it's turn, and the display will be there before the Human Russians can begin their turn.

Cheers...

P.S If you watch real closely, you will notice the absent of the stars when Germans are selected as "FastAI/Does Nothing AI". But here the AI computes much faster and the display is set quickly.

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Fascinating! I just had a Spock moment I guess as this is all fairly new to me lol.

I checked and they do indeed appear after a few turns. So I guess this is probably more to do with me just pushing tripleA to the outer limits by using such a large map baseline image and taxing the rig? hehe

I'm curious, if the sequence for initializing delegates is making the difference like if we had say initialized the capitals after the victory cities instead of before them, if those would then stall instead for display? or if say something else would then stall on display based on the listings? I don't know say like all the PU values or something, where those don't fully visualize on first turn if they came later in the list hehe. It's mildly amusing to me because my feeling before was that VCs were treated as this sorta accidental thing to a lot of the standard games, like that they'd just sort of float as a technical thing for determining victory, but less relevant for the actual gameplay in those cases. More like an afterthought in how the computer or even player would prioritize what they're going to do. So like in this instance, would indicate that tripleA computer player cares a great deal about the PU values, since it's trying to crunch all that before it moves or purchases, or like for Capital control same deal, it cares very much, but then perhaps for VCs, the HardAI is like 'well I don't care about them, since no one pays attention to those anyway' as if it could speak about what it's doing hehe.

Here at least they'll all be worth that 2 PUs and production capable, to sorta make them always relevant to the gameplay mechanics no matter what.

Or curious maybe for this we could just use whatever method to jumpstart their display, since ostensibly victory would be about controlling these VC, that'd they'd be highlighted like first to drop? Sometimes I have to watch for a sec as the map tiles in at various zooms or when panning around if I reset the map zoom display. But this was the first time I had seen the display stall out on the stars haha. Guess first time for everything

But now I'm just curious about it. Example, in standard world war II global, initializing delegates just does original owner and Kamikazes I think, but if we are trying to initializing more stuff during that phase with the variable lists, maybe the length of that trigger list compared to how many moves the hard is trying to calc to do the movement prior to purchase, it will sorta clip towards the end of that list?

I was unsure how this worked now, since in the file I was copying initially VC was listed as an option under territory attachment, like victory city =1 or whatever for all the stuff listed by a given territory, but the newer is organizing by variable thing, so still learning it as I open the stuff you lay down in notepad and try to reveal the mysteries to myself hehe. For the tiling thing I compared the tiles in the relief folders...

Standard world war 2 global Bung's is basically 7500px by 3200px with a tile folder 30 rows by 12 columns deep for each.

The UHD version is basically 11000px by 5000px, 40 rows by 20 columns for the tiles.

This current thing is ~16000px by 8000px, 65 rows by 30 columns deep for the tiles.

These last 2 are comparable in terms of the overall file size, example there 40 mb compared to about 60mb for the reliefTile folders, but the latter has many more individual tiles that it has to reconstruct and stitch together for the full image to display on screen. So probably a bit more heavy lifting there in terms of whatever my GPU is trying to do

To me having the the VCs visualize at launch would be optimal, even if it only effects the solo thing, as I'd anticipate people may use Germany's first turn (if controlled by HardAI) to study the map and try to parse what's going on generally with the view at a glance. Or I guess to take advantage of the slight delay there on HardAI's part to get their bearings. After G1 computer always seems to move at a much steadier clip, and as units sorta coalesce into stacks and consolidate across fewer tiles. For now this works fine for testing the computer behavior, I thought it must be maybe just the display cause was still seeing all the stuff in the stats bar. Didn't think to let it run it's paces and then check again, good looking out!

It may introduce confusion to see things suddenly change on USSR's first turn from what the player sees on G1 hardAi though, if there's a workaround we can use. I mean even if it may be more efficient for the HardAI to start crunching numbers instantly before the display updates in this way, but then I think I would still prioritize the users initial display, like whatever user is seeing upon first launch. Doesn't seem to be mission critical right now, as it catches up pretty quickly and then appeared as expected on the follow up Russian turn. That's a relief

Right on!

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk

There is a lot here, let's see if I can simplify it a little. Before play can begin all territories (units, relationships, etc) needs to have a defining attachment. In G '40, everything is done at the attachment level:

 <attachment name="territoryAttachment" attachTo="Novgorod" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TerritoryAttachment" type="territory">
	<option name="production" value="2"/>
	<option name="unitProduction" value="3"/>
	<option name="victoryCity" value="1"/>
 </attachment>

Because of this, all information is presented at map drawing. In UHD '40 the territoryAttachment looks like this (after foreach, which can be seen in an exported xml):

<attachment name="territoryAttachment" attachTo="Stalingrad" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TerritoryAttachment" type="territory">
	<option name="production" value="2"/>
</attachment>

There is just enough information to get the territory drawn on the map, and triggers are used to adjust this territory information/attachment.
These triggers are called during a players turn, at which point a modern computer will fork processes into different treads. So even though the process for adding "victoryCity=1" has been completed, the map update process/thread may still be waiting to be executed.

Granted this is a simple explanation, it can get even far more in depth.

Cheers...

P.S You may have noticed that when Germans are AI @beelee 'Welcome' message does not appear. The trigger still fires, it can be seen in the "History", but the AI ignores pop ups.

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

Yeah I just realized that all I have to do is click into the game tab right after starting it up and click 'show current game'

Then everything for the display instantly pops up.

If I forget they'll sorta stage in over the game round anyway. I thought I was seeing stars, like the full VC ko heheh

ps. I would say from my last series that FastAI is still playing a stronger game than HardAI. It opens more effectively at least, seems more likely to trade and throw it's stacks forward, also just a smoother experience as it takes less time to make it's moves. It seems to attack and take territory somewhat more consistently during it's combat move, whereas HardAI seems a bit more preoccupied with it's non coms, or positioning to counter often leaving it's transports more vulnerable with floaters. For the opener FastAI just seems to play more forward using it's transports for amphib, or just generally trying to destroy more TUV as it goes.

Oh also, I think G needs a starting airbase in Mecklenburg to cover their Baltic safe zone with the scramble. Just so they have a bit more coverage vs the allied airblitz vs their main fleet. Leningrad provides it later on if they can take and hold, but sometimes computer really takes it's time on that one. Both HardAI and FastAI may take, but then fail to hold, so I think they probably need a coastal AB somewhere closer to home in the baltic, just so they don't get wiped too hardcore from the air. Otherwise though the computer does a pretty good job of positioning on the water I think.

ps. I ran a game FastAI Axis vs HardAI allies to a dozen rounds

2025-3-25-UHD-WIP-1940-45_G13.tsvg

computer France got their revenge vs computer Italy, but then also had their purse snatched several times, same for China with Japan grabbing the bag. I think it may be hard to ever really get AI to latch onto the capital trade for cash situation. They'll sometimes decline to take a capital, even for a simple walk in, to trade like maybe 1 transport and 1 inf 10 PUs to take a capital worth 100 to the opponent. Maybe it would be better to dispense with capital rules altogether and instead frame them as generalized objectives. So like when a Capital is captured the purse is awarded only once, like the first time the Capital falls, then afterwards the game just sorta falls back onto more regular production values. But I think it's where say the computer can lose it's income multiple times that it starts to snafu. Computer USA was poised to drop on Italy I think but then Brits liberated Paris and they lose their production foothold, though they recovered by taking Libya and Southern France they pushed on Italy overland after the Italian fleet was sunk. Germany managed somewhat better since they took over the north first and tucked their fleet up to safety. Japan made like they were going to cut for Anzac with the sprawl, but then backed off and just went for the brawl towards the middle in China. It was amusing to watch, I'm not sure who will prevail. Will it be FastAI with it's reckless but relentless advance, or HardAI with it's more cautious calcs? heheh Seems like it might hinge on what FastAI G does right there. I may leave myself on the cliffhanger and spectate on the HardAI Axis vs FastAI Allies.

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk said in Mega New Elk WIP:

Maybe it would be better to dispense with capital rules altogether and instead frame them as generalized objectives. So like when a Capital is captured the purse is awarded only once, like the first time the Capital falls, then afterwards the game just sorta falls back onto more regular production values.

This can be done. Thanks for providing your recent play through. There were a couple of turns that Chinese were not receiving any reinforcements. So, I've made some changes. Also, French buys it's own factory_minor for Gabon, even though it still possesses Algiers.
The game starts with the Allies having more production, as they should, but they also start with more units. Germany begins with 50 production, and can get to 100+ with the fall of France, but two off the biggest producers, Americans and British, both at over 120, go back-to-back, with China, another allied player, between them. Without a more balanced production a balanced starting unit count/TUV seems to heavily favor the allies. So much so that by round 6/7 both America and British are both in France.
Hope you understand what I'm saying.

UHD WIP 1940-45 1.38.1.zip
airfield added to Mecklenburg
NoPU Purchase changed from 2 territories to 3
NoPU Purchase requirement change so Chinese are not being skipped from receiving reinforcements.

Cheers...