Flames and Steel (official thread)

KurtGodel7

@Schulz said:

I think @kurtgodel7 could perfectly fine go with these territories for the Eastern Front. All he needs is to redraw Poland and its surroundings for the 1940 borders. Tsarist-era names have to go, too.

I like the map you've posted. Ty for this.

However, there are two issues.

I'm less than 48 hours into my usage week, and I'm already at 74% of my weekly usage. I was close to finishing the Europe redo when I saw your post.
I'd envisioned Flames and Steel being roughly the same scale of map as Domination 1914 No Man's Land or World at War. The map you've posted implies a significantly larger map than that scale. If I adopt your map for Europe, I have to redo the world map to keep that same scale.

In earlier posts, I'd talked about being open to having multiple maps using my rules set. I want version 1 to have a map that won't intimidate someone who plays NML, WAW, or Global. But I absolutely believe there's room for something which uses the Flames and Steel rules, and which uses a large map like the one you've provided here.

Edit: your map inspired me to make Moscow six spaces from the German front instead of five. Two territories were split to achieve this. I think that six spaces away will allow the game to last longer.

KurtGodel7

@Cernel said:

@KurtGodel7 said:

Map changes, including some border changes and the creation of the Pripet Marshes.

Specify to Claude that's 1941.

When either can be chosen, I've chosen one. For example, Wurttemberg can be called either Wurttemberg or Baden, and I've chosen Baden.

Also, you should be consistent: either have Koenigsberg and Wuerttemberg or Konigsberg and Wurttemberg. Your call.

(Current : New)
Koenigsberg : eastern East Prussia
East Prussia : Koenigsberg
Danzig : Danzig - West Prussia
West Prussia : Wartheland
Posen : Lower Silesia
Silesia : Upper Silesia
Pomerania : Pomerania
Bohemia : Bohemia - Moravia
Vienna : Austria
Bavaria : Bavaria
Wurttemberg : Baden
Saxony : Saxony
Berlin : Berlin
Hesse : Rhineland
Ruhr : Westphalia
Hanover : Hanover
Hamburg : Hamburg

The new map of Europe

I was doing this while you were creating your list of names. I will hit Claude with that list. But if the new shapes inspire any thoughts about name changes lmk.

Cernel

@KurtGodel7 Wait then. I'll make the new list based on the new map.

Cernel

@KurtGodel7 said:

The new map of Europe

(Current : New)
East Prussia : East Prussia
Danzig : Danzig
West Prussia : West Prussia
Posen : Wartheland
Silesia : Lower Silesia
Pomerania : northern Pomerania
Neumark : southern Pomerania
Bohemia : Bohemia - Moravia
Vienna : Austria
Bavaria : Bavaria
Wurttemberg : Baden
Saxony : Saxony
Berlin : Berlin
Hesse : Rhineland
Ruhr : Westphalia
Hanover : Hanover
Hamburg : Hamburg

Vendetta

@KurtGodel7 The outlines for Hungary, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland. and Romania are a lot more coherent now. There's still a bit of weirdness with with how far north Bessarabia extends and Lwow curling around Slovakia, but on the whole this is a major improvement over the previous version.

KurtGodel7

@Cernel said:

@KurtGodel7 said:

The new map of Europe

(Current : New)
East Prussia : East Prussia
Danzig : Danzig
West Prussia : West Prussia
Posen : Wartheland
Silesia : Lower Silesia
Pomerania : northern Pomerania
Neumark : southern Pomerania
Bohemia : Bohemia - Moravia
Vienna : Austria
Bavaria : Bavaria
Wurttemberg : Baden
Saxony : Saxony
Berlin : Berlin
Hesse : Rhineland
Ruhr : Westphalia
Hanover : Hanover
Hamburg : Hamburg

Claude's take on this:

Posen --> Wartheland

Agree. That’s exactly Reichsgau Wartheland in 1941. It also matches “West Prussia” (Danzig–West Prussia), which already uses the 1941 German name.

Bohemia --> Bohemia/Moravia

Agree. It’s the Protectorate.

Vienna--> Austria

Already done in draft 100.

Silesia--> Lower Silesia

Disagree. German Upper Silesia is in it, so “Lower” would be wrong. Keep Silesia.

Neumark --> southern Pomerania

Disagree. Schneidemühl did become Pomeranian in 1938, but Landsberg and Frankfurt an der Oder were Brandenburg. Landsberg was the Neumark’s chief town. If a change is wanted, “Grenzmark” fits the Schneidemühl half better. Pomerania then needs no “northern”.

Wurttemberg --> Baden

Disagree. “Baden” would drop Stuttgart. The accurate name, Baden-Württemberg, dates from 1952. Keep Wurttemberg.

Hesse --> Rhineland

Disagree, mildly. It’s a mix, but Cologne, the heart of the Rhineland, is in our Ruhr territory. “Rhineland” would mislead, so keep Hesse.

Ruhr --> Westphalia

Either works. Ruhr is the name players know, and it covers Cologne. Westphalia is more “provincial” in style but excludes Cologne. I’d keep Ruhr.

I didn't like the name Bohemia/Moravia. Where possible I'd prefer for a territory to have one name instead of two. I asked Claude what a good one word name would be. It gave me the following.

A one-word name for Bohemia–Moravia. There’s no perfect one. The real choices:

Bohemia (my recommendation). It’s the usual English shorthand for the whole Czech lands, and it’s what most WWII games use.
Czechia. This is one word and covers both halves accurately. But in 1941 English it was rare, and it reads as the modern country’s name.
Protectorate. It’s historically exact, but it’s not a place name, and it would sit oddly next to Silesia and Austria.

KurtGodel7

The latest iteration of the map.

KurtGodel7

Some of the new tech names

Advanced Panzerfaust is supposed to say "Panzerfaust 150" but it got cut off.

Normally you are limited to one bombardment shot per unit unloaded. Naval gunfire support increases that cap to two bombardment shots per unit unloaded.

KurtGodel7

America Pacific's tech tree

Unlike America Atlantic, America Pacific is able to research TBF Avenger (improved naval combat for torpedo bombers). Also combat air patrol (carriers get to participate in the interception phase). Also, B-24 Liberator and the Superfortress. Also the VT Proximity Fuze (ships hit by enemy air fire back on a +1).

America Atlantic's research screen

Techs that America Atlantic has that America Pacific lacks:
P-47 Thunderbolt. Adds +1 to hitpoints for dive bombers
HVAR Rockets: improves dive bombers against land
FIDO: improves torpedo bombers against subs
M7 Priest: allows you to build M7 Priests
Fire Direction Center: allows each Priest to support two units (offense only)
Flying Fortress and Combat Box

Schulz

Berlin should not be closer to Krakow than Warsaw is. Either Silesia should be split, or Neumark and West Prussia should be merged.

Vendetta

@KurtGodel7

That extra bit that’s on the east end of Hungary in your latest version is Ruthenia, which would actually be a good area to carve out as a separate 1 value province (it looks big enough on that map to be viable as one).

It was part of Czechoslovakia before the war, given to Hungary when Czechoslovakia was partitioned, and then annexed by the Soviets after the war - now a part of Ukraine today.

Budapest should probably just be Hungary since it’s a one province country on your map like Austria or Switzerland.

@Schulz said:

Berlin should not be closer to Krakow than Warsaw is. Either Silesia should be split, or Neumark and West Prussia should be merged.

Upper Silesia (east) and Lower Silesia (west) are the natural divisions if you decide to split Silesia.

One more aspect to think about is color palette. The gray on the Pripet Marshes space looks pretty close to Germany’s territory color, it will probably stand out more easily if it’s darkened to a charcoal or ashy gray.

Italy in light gray and Germany in darker also don’t have a whole lot of contrast with each other. If you make Italy’s territories a light mauve (something like #ddc2cb), it might help them stand out a bit, since Germany’s gray has a bit of a blue tint.