Fallen Empire

alkexr

@redrum @Frostion Greyhawk Wars and Large Middle Earth have land units with 4 movement. Keep in mind that the slowest units have 2 movement (just as on the two other maps). I'm not entirely sure 3 movement is enough of an advantage over 2.

It is difficult to tell though whether a 2-movement system makes for a more interesting tactical game or a 1-movement system.

@Hepps Tall grass is something I had considered. It doesn't look as bad as I thought it would. There will certainly be multiple plains themes (just as there are multiple types of forests), but I haven't yet made up my mind about what exactly they should be.

Hepps

@alkexr All good. I'll but out. Just let me know if you need a hand with anything.... I live to serve.

alkexr

Progress report #6 (Part 1)

March 15 is a national holiday in Hungary celebrating the 1848 revolution, the only victorious revolution in Hungarian history (although the ensuing war of independence was crushed a year and a half later... Hungarian history isn't a history of success, you know). In addition to progress with the map, this 4-day weekend resulted in (to probably evereyone's surprise at this point) a new helpful tool for map creation. This one I spent more time polishing, so it should be stable.

TripleA Utility for Naming Territories
Download TAUNT.zip

This c# console application generates territory names with icons showing territory PUs and resource production, and optionally generates a name placement file based on centers.txt.

In order to run, you need

the application (TAUNT.exe)
an xml configuration file (detailed below)
map folder already set up
map.properties
centers.txt
game xml
resource icon image files

When running TAUNT.exe, you need to select an xml configuration file. If you run TAUNT.exe directly, it will try to load TAUNT.tauntcfg from the same folder it is in. You can also open any file with TAUNT.exe (right click -> open with -> choose another application). I recommend associating .tauntcfg extension with TAUNT.exe, so you can simply double click on the config file to run TAUNT.

What is this configuration xml file for? It tells the application which map you want to generate territory names for, which images you want to use as resource icons, etc.: everything the application needs to know about what you want it to do. Let's have a look at all the options through an example:

<configuration>
	<cfg key="map folder" value="..\downloadedMaps\Fallen Empire"/>
	<cfg key="resource icon folder" value="FallenEmpireData"/>
	<cfg key="displayed resources" value="PUs:supply"/>
	<cfg key="gap between icons" value="-8"/>
	<cfg key="gap between resources" value="6"/>
	<cfg key="gap below text" value="4"/>
	<cfg key="generate name placement file" value="yes"/>
	<cfg key="font type" type="Constantia" size="12" style="Regular"/>
	<cfg key="capital territory font type" type="Constantia" size="14" style="Underline"/>
	<names>
		<replace territoryname="Centaurs Path" displayname="Centaurs' Path"/>
		<replace territoryname="Conquerors Bridge" displayname="Conqueror's Bridge"/>
		<replace territoryname="Hordes Crossing" displayname="Hordes' Crossing"/>
		<replace territoryname="Monsters March" displayname="Monsters' March"/>
		<replace territoryname="Nightlords Knoll" displayname="Nightlord's Knoll"/>
		<replace territoryname="Phobetors Passage" displayname="Phobetor's Passage"/>
		<replace territoryname="Princes Pass" displayname="Prince's Pass"/>
		<replace territoryname="Progenitors Coffin" displayname="Progenitors' Coffin"/>
		<replace territoryname="Smugglers Hideout" displayname="Smugglers' Hideout"/>
		<replace territoryname="Steppes End" displayname="Steppe's End"/>
		<replace territoryname="Titans Fist" displayname="Titan's Fist"/>
		<replace territoryname="Tormentors Keep" displayname="Tormentor's Keep"/>
		<replace territoryname="Traders Sea" displayname="Traders' Sea"/>
	</names>
</configuration>

You can simply just copy this xml and modify it, the best way to ensure it will be in a correct format. Let's go through what each of the options do:

"map folder": the path of the map folder relative to the TAUNT.exe file (not the .tauntcfg file). For reference, TAUNT.exe is in the "triplea\Workshop" folder on my computer, so ".." means "triplea", and "..\downloadedMaps" means "triplea\downloadedMaps".
"resource icon folder": where to find the resource icons. Again, path is relative, so "FallenEmpireData" means "triplea\Workshop\FallenEmpireData". Resource icon files must be named exactly the same as the resources (so "triplea\Workshop\FallenEmpireData\PUs.png" and "triplea\Workshop\FallenEmpireData\supply.png" in my case).
"displayed resources": a colon delimited list of which resources to display. I could decide to set it to "PUs", in that case supply icons wouldn't show up. Or I could set it to "PUs:supply:XP", in which case nothing would change since no territory produces XP.
"gap between icons": gap between icons of the same resource. They will overlap if it's negative.
"gap between resources": gap between groups of icons of different resources. They will overlap if it's negative.
"gap below text": gap between the text and the resource icons. They will overlap if it's negative, but why would you want to do that.
"generate name placement file": yes/no, whether to generate name_place.txt.
"font type": font used for non-capital territories. Style can be "Bold", "Italic", "Regular", "Underline" or "Strikeout".
"capital territory font type": you can guess.
replacements can be used to display a name other than the territory name. Useful for displaying weird characters, like in "Barad-dûr" or "Lothlórien" or "¯\_(ツ)_/¯".

Notes:

if there are multiple game xmls, the first one alphabetically will be used. You can't have different territory names for different xmls anyway.
the application happily overrides stuff without asking questions, so be careful. It will not touch the name_place.txt if "generate name placement file" is set to "no".
the application won't crash even if it encounters errors. Check the generated log.txt if the result is not what you expected.
the application probably isn't foolproof, so if you give weird input, you might get weird results.

Part 2 coming soon with map progress and the Pirate Federation.

Hepps

@alkexr Happy Nemzeti ünnep.

the new addition to the Map making process seems cool. Complex... but cool. I look forward to trying it out in the near future.

prastle

@alkexr Once you feel it is complete. You should repost this in the Map Making Category we can pin it near the top. Nice stuff!

alkexr

@prastle As soon as I get feedback that it actually works as it should.

alkexr

Progress report #6 (Part 2)

The relief map is slowly but steadily covering more and more of the map. Some of the vast neutral lands and the central area of the map (especially around the Piratebay) saw progress in the past two weeks. In the meantime, the unit list of several factions started looking less empty. The units of the Pirate Federation in particular are more or less finalized.

The Pirate Federation

Pirates were a headache for merchants even at the pinnacle of the Empire's might, but in the anarchy after the Fall there was nothing to oppose them. With the unscrupulous amounts of wealth they amassed as a consequence the richest and most influential captains in Hazehaven soon forced the rest into submission, and started extorting tribute and recruiting sailors from nearby cities. They lack the disciplined land armies needed to hold on to vast swaths of land, but their fearless sailors feel really at home on the seas, and with their dreaded fleets they seek to rule the waves, the coasts and all the riches those provide!

Pirate: foot units with 2 movement. 2 attack, 1 defense, with an additional 2 attack when attacking from the sea.
Brigand: foot units with 2 movement. 2 attack, 2 defense in most terrain. In hills and woods, they gain +1 power.
Assassin: support units with 2 movement. 3 attack, 1 defense. They can try to assassinate other support units when attacking with a power of 2. In settlements they gain +1 power.
Bombard: built with technology from an alchemist they captured, these primitive cannons only have 1 attack and 2 defense, rendering them mostly useless in a battle. But they have 3 siege against fortifications, furthermore they get +1 power in settlements and +2 in fortified terrain, making them the ideal choice for taking down heavily fortified positions. Support unit.
Bloodparrot: little is known about these beasts aside from their insatiable bloodthirst and their hatred of mages, whom they flock and tear apart upon sight. Some speculate they were created by a careless experiment of a witch. Flying units with 4 movement, 2 attack and 1 defense (in normal and air battles alike). They also have 1 assassinate when attacking.
Hemiolia: light, fast galleys for overtaking heavier ships or for river navigation. 3 movement ship with 2 attack and 1 defense, +1 in rivers. 1 transport capacity.
Hulk: the ship that makes the Pirate Federation truly formidable, with a massive 6 coastal bombardment power. Landing pirates assisted by bombarding hulks can tear down coastal defenses with ease. They have 2 movement, 3 attack and 4 defense (+1 on open waters). They can also shoot at flying units when defending with a power of 1. They can transport 3 land units and carry 1 air unit.
Fireship: 2 movement, 2 attack, 2 defense ships designed to crash into the enemy fleet while on fire. They have the berserk ability, meaning they die instantly, but get 3 rolls.

That's it for today, if you have any ideas, please share it, nothing is final yet. Ideas for heroes are especially welcome. Actually... I don't want to just leave you with nothing but a wall of text:

The area around the Piratebay, with the newly generated territory names

prastle

@alkexr Thumbs UP! Whats a Gork?

alkexr

@prastle didn't know it had a meaning lol

EDIT: I'm open to suggestions for territory names, and please point out if any name sounds stupid or un-English-y. It looks easy to come up with fantasy names. And it is, for the first 100

redrum

@alkexr Interesting tool. Any chance you know some Java instead of C#? They are pretty similar. Only reason I ask is it would be much easier to integrate it as an optional step in the map creator if it was written in Java.

alkexr

@redrum If I did, I would have used that, of course. I want to learn java at some point, but don't expect a java version of my tools in the near future.

alkexr

A Big Announcement

There will be no progress reports any more.

When I announced this map back in January, the goal was to get feedback. So I decided to show off parts of the map that were almost perfectly complete. There are three main problems with this approach. First, it's pretty hard to give meaningful feedback on some pictures designed primarily to be shown off. Second, this more or less forced me into a very suboptimal development process - polishing parts of the map to near perfection while ignoring the rest. Third, and most important, this gives the impression that I actually know what I'm doing. It's just meaningless perfectionism, lack of willingness to share something incomplete, imperfect, that I'm working on.

So I think the best way to adress this problem is to release an early alpha version.

At the moment, the map is not ready even for an early alpha - I don't actually know which files belong where and where the latest version is, not talking about the map creation tools integrated into it. It's a mess. That needs no be cleared up. Also, there are some placeholders. Those need to be cleared up too.

So here is the roadmap. I will write posts about several major planned features that I didn't introduce or implement yet. Maybe brainstorm some ideas about these. In the meantime I clear up the mess. Don't forget that Alagaesia is the top priority until I release 1.0, so this might take a while. Then I release the alpha version, alongside with all the development resources here in this thread. This will hopefully give you more ammunition for feedback.

But images are so much better at sparking imagination than words.

Hepps

Scope and size look awesome. Much like the tantalizing morsels you have provided in the past it sparks the appetite to see the grand scheme.

Looking forward to seeing the alpha when it is ready.

redrum

@alkexr Makes sense. The map looks really cool, is it based on anything or did you come up with it completely from scratch? Also looking at it I assume it doesn't wrap around east to west?

alkexr

@redrum From scratch, no wrap.

redrum

@alkexr Nice. One thing that jumps out is given the size of the map as well as general player preferences, you probably want to consider focusing on a 2 alliance version of the map not just FFA. As it will probably be very difficult to get much of a player base on a FFA this large as it will probably on average last 20+ rounds.

Frostion

@alkexr Making a map from scratch is really a challenge. Not only in a technical sense. My experience is that it is hard in the sense of enduring the process, trying to see the end of the tunnel and keeping the motivation alive, while doing a lot of very monotone work. But it is awesome and rewarding when the map is done enough to be playable, as you probably already have experienced! (Even though I guess that we mapmakers all also have a bunch of unfinished maps/map concepts in our drawers )

I am confident that you can make Fallen Empire playable, as the map seems so far along in regards to graphics and concept. And we are here to help, just as we are here to give moral support

Cernel

@redrum While @redrum is correct about the fact that the FFA gang is small and that big FFA are challenging for PBF and near impossible for live gaming, I instead suggest you to have this map as FFA only, not even making a 1v1, as TA is lacking sound FFA maps and I believe that it is better a map being FFA only or 1v1 only, as it is lame to recycle a same map for totally different stuff (the only case in which I think it is cool having multiple games per map is when each one is representing a different starting point in time, like in v3 1941 and 1942).

alkexr

@cernel It is lame to recycle maps, but it is efficient.

@redrum I definitely can include a 2-alliance version, but I can't guarantee it will be as polished / balanced as the FFA. I mean, like, the very first design goal is that primary focus is on FFA.

Also, the motivation behind this map is what @cernel pointed out: TA is lacking on the genuine (maybe even 4X-y leaning) FFA front. We, with a group of friends usually work around this by hacking non-FFA maps.

Hepps

@alkexr In all likelihood a 12 player FFA would never get played, never mind on a scale such as this. Might want to bear that in mind for whatever the envisioned playable version is intended to be.

But at the end of the day... follow your own vision first. The rest of humanity be damned.