Middle Earth: Battle For Arda - Official Thread

[alkexr]

@alkexr said in Large Middle Earth - official thread:

I'm no fan of changing the map at this point.

Yeah, that was two days ago. Today the entire East got reworked, along with several other map changes.

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Question: should I merge Dale and Northmen into a new player called Northmen, with their capital being either Dale or Esgaroth?

From the perspective of the canon, the inhabitants of Dale (as well as Rhovanion) are techically Northmen. The current "Northmen" player represents the Eotheod (ancestors of the Rohirim, with their historical capital being Framsburg) and the kin of Beorn, likely of Northmen ancestry. As a united entity both the original and the proposed new "Northmen" player make about the same amount of (i.e. no) sense.

From the perspective of gameplay, this would give Good many strategic options, instead of "just don't lose your capital", which is currently more or less what they can make an admirable attempt of with their very limited amount of resources. In addition, having two players just slows the game down. They are also much closer to each other than the Dwarves or the High Elves are to themselves.

[alkexr]

Now the new map à la @Hepps ...

Before

After

Obviously the relief map got completely screwed up as a consequence, so temporarily it's advisable to turn map details off.

[Hepps]

@alkexr Thank god I hadn't finished the reliefs!

[Hepps]

@alkexr Interesting, merging the two is kind of a neat way to speed things up. How does it play out for turn order? Do they both go on Dale's turn? Or do they both go on North Men's turn?

[alkexr]

@hepps Turn order is a good question. The current turn order felt cool years ago, but it must be a nightmare for PBF/PBEM. It would be most time-efficient if first all Evil players finished their turn, and Good players came after that (or the other way around), but that would just create more possibility for surreal 4-player canopeners. So I suggest the compromise that 2-4 players of the same side take their turn after one another, but always players that are far away. With generally Evil players coming earlier (it feels fair to give Evil the initiative, and also consider that they're about to lose 80 production due to changes which they'll have to make up for). Something like

Saruman
Angmar
Mordor

Arnor
Gondor
Northmen
Lorien

Orcs
Rhun

High Elves
Woodland Realm

Harad
Dol Guldur

Freefolk
Dwarves
Rohan

Local turn order on several interesting fronts would be:

• Mordor > Gondor > Harad > Rohan
• Saruman > Gondor, Lorien > Orcs > Rohan
• Angmar > Northmen > Rhun > Woodland Realm > Dol Guldur > Dwarves

So the other side usually gets a chance to spoil plans involving multiple players.

Also with this turn order, you would only have to wait for your opponent 3 times a turn instead of 7.

[mattbarnes]

@alkexr the problem with the High Elf sea movement was with a Caravel.

[alkexr]

@mattbarnes Can you send a savegame? They are passable to me.

[Hepps]

@alkexr is this what you were thinking? Or leave as is?

[alkexr]

@hepps Unfortunately there is no excuse in the canon that would enable two territories for Gundabad. So instead of adding new a new territory let's just reshape Mount Gundabad and the surrounding territoeies. I've also broken up the mountain to the right into two territories, because it was getting too large. (And it was oddly strategic as well.)

[Hepps]

@alkexr I'm easy... I am just trying to keep the momentum as I have like 3 territories left to do.

If you have changes... speak now or forever hold your piece.

[alkexr]

@hepps You sure want to see the changes? I haven't decided yet, but there is the option to...

Before:

After:

The idea is to make Rohan more resistant and especially their capital Edoras less exposed. So that I won't have to hold myself back when I'm placing the initial armies for Saruman

But this would be a lot of work for you. Moving mountains and settlements and rivers and adding a marsh and a cave and stuff. More than the Rhun rework.

[Hepps]

@alkexr Your map your rules... just do what you need to do for the game.

The changes are easily made so long as they don't come after I am done.

[alkexr]

@hepps

Your map your rules...

It's your work and your time. But do it, then, lest I regret not having done it.

Territory effects in purple. The very rough course of rivers in blue. Nothing outside the red line. The settlement "Erech" got moved to the south to give space for the fort of Dunharrow (hills+settlement) and the Glittering caves (cave+settlement).

One last tiny change for a friend of mine who wanted a strategic option for Harad, namely to enter Mordor from the far east (Mordor is open from that side off-map). So I'll just make the mountain shorter to allow a territory connection.

Before:

After:

No more map changes. But alas, the hour has grown late. Continuing work tomorrow.

[Hepps]

@alkexr One other thing... If Hornburg is its own territory... wouldn 't that technically mean that Helms Deep is actually caves?

[alkexr]

@hepps Helms Deep is... I'm not sure about the term, but I think it's a ravine, a deep, narrow valley. Hornburg blocks the entrance to the Valley. And the Glittering Caves open from Helms Deep, those are the caves.

[Hepps]

@alkexr I saw. My post and your revision post landed on the forum at the very same moment.

[Hepps]

Well here is a little preview minus some of the finishing touches....

Whatever late hour changes Ilúvatar deems necessary will of course shape the world of Elves, Dwarves and Men.

'For Ilúvatar (known in common tongue as @alkexr )is the Lord for Always who dwells beyond the world; who made it and is not of it nor in it, but loves it.'

[alkexr]

@hepps "And he showed to them a vision, and they saw a new World made visible before them [...] And as they looked and wondered this World began to unfold its history, and it seemed to them that it lived and grew. [...] Ilúvatar said again: [...] each of you shall find contained herein, amid the design that I set before you, all those things which [...] he himself devised or added. And thou [...] wilt perceive that they are [...] a part of [...] its glory."

[Hepps]

The source of all things foul...

[alkexr]

While the relief map is being done, I'm working on some less spectacular stuff. After the territory effects rework, now units will be reworked. (At the same time, the game xml is going to be integrated with TagX, at least partially.)

First of all, a new ability will be added: shield is the equivalent of armor, except it works against ranged units, as opposed to armor which works against melee units.

Second, "axe cavalry" and similarly uncreative units are going to be replaced with more immersive ones. To this end all players will get more unique units, and generic units will become less prevalent.

Northmen already have their new unit set (as well as new color):

Sorry for the map graphics, everything got screwed up with the map changes, so I'm now stuck with this sh... stuck with whatever this is.

The five new units are:

• beorning warrior: 5 PUs, moves 2, 4 attack, 2 defense, 1 shield, has mountainwalk
• woodman: 5 PUs, moves 2, 1 attack, 3 defense, 4 antiair, 2 ranged bonus, forest dweller
• barding infantry: 7 PUs, moves 2, 3 attack, 4 defense, 2 formation, 2 armor, 2 shield
• raider: 5 PUs, moves 2, 4 attack, 1 defense, 2 flank, raider
• eotheod cavalry: 7 PUs, moves 4, 4 attack, 4 defense, 6 charge