Civil War | Units Issues
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@cernel I believe you are correct and I did notice some weird behavior around capturing the neutrals infrastructure but hadn't looked closely.
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"shipyard" and "shipyard_u" cannot be placed in the following territories, while it should be allowed:
Long IslandAdditionally to the above, the Union (only) cannot place "shipyard_u" in the following territories, while it should be able to:
Annapolis
NashvilleSolution:
Add "Long Island" to the "unitPlacementOnlyAllowedIn" value of "shipyard".
Substitute the "unitPlacementOnlyAllowedIn" value of "shipyard_u" with the same for "shipyard".Warning:
There may be other wrong or missing entries in the code for "shipyard_u" and "shipyard". Check that all entries correspond with all territories on the map adjacent to the sea and having production value 3 or a shipyard/shipyard_u in them at start game.Comments:
- Not a Civil War player myself, so it would be especially good if one confirms the above is correct.
- On general terms, I disagree with having the special rule that you can place a shipyard if one already there in the starting setup. This means that either you have to remember where the starting shipyards were or keeping going back to start game history to look at it. Elements that are liable to be removed without leaving any trace (except for looking at history), during the course of the game, should not be the base for rules.
- Generally speaking, having in the xml the full list of where something can or cannot be placed, based on unsupported rules explained in notes, really doesn't look like the best practice (and, obviously, cannot have a good tooltip for it). I'd say a property like "unitPlacementOnlyAllowedIn" should be used only when the rules themselves are just a plain list (communicated in notes or graphically or both), as well. If a developer thinks it may be worthwile, instead of spelling out the full list of territories based on the rule communicated in game notes, it would be rather better supporting such rules (limiting placement to production 3+ territories is already supported), except that I would not support a rule that allows placement based on a unit presence that is not there in the moment you actually place it (see the point above).
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@wirkey Clarifying that by "dockyards" you mean "shipyard" (and "shipyard_u").
Yes. I just made a post about it. Sadly, that is not really supported, so matter is writing down each one singularly.
This is the current full list for "shipyard" in the xml, if anyone wants to spot other missing ones, beside Long Island:
New York:South Jersey:Philadelphia:Baltimore:Annapolis:Washington:Norfolk:New Bern:Charleston:Savannah:Key West:Pensacola:Mobile:New Orleans:Galveston:Vicksburg:College Hill:Memphis:Nashville:Corinth:Chattanooga:Bowling Green:Louisville:Frankfort:Pittsburg:Ravenna:Zanesville:Marietta:Hillsboro:Cincinnati:Salem:Evansville:St Louis:Alton:Naples:Iowa City:Chicago:Toledo:ClevelandAll those listed by @wirkey are there.
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@cernel My solution/suggestion, instead of just fixing, would be:
- Removing the (unsupported) rule that starting shipyard allow placement for the rest of the game.
- Make shipyard downgrade upon capture to a nonfunctional version of the same or getting damage you can repair (instead of simply destroyed upon capture).
- Have just the rule that you can place new ones in 3+ value territories but upgrade/repair captured ones anywhere.
At this point, the only unsupported rule would be that you can place shipyards in territories not connected to the sea (if value 3+), but that is just idiot proof.
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@cernel said in Civil War | Units Issues:
@cernel My solution/suggestion, instead of just fixing, would be:
- Make shipyard downgrade upon capture to a nonfunctional version of the same or getting damage you can repair (instead of simply destroyed upon capture).
I had a discussion with pulicat about that one. Can you specify which resources are used for repair? On the other hand we had the issue that, if you can repair at the beginning of your turn, you could already use that shipyard to produce ships
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@wirkey Yeah I specifically didn't go into details, as those need to be defined by players of the map, or the risk is overlooking something dumb or breaking some intended dynamics. So, I cannot help you there; what at my previous post was just a suggestion for an actual player to take over (but it is possible to just debug by fixing the list).
I can only say that for the resources I would just go with half or so of what is needed to produce a shipyard from nothing.
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Ooor are you sure that the 3+ production restriction is really necessary? After all, those shipyards in poorer zones have been built sometimes in the past sooo...
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@cernel said in Civil War | Units Issues:
Ooor are you sure that the 3+ production restriction is really necessary? After all, those shipyards in poorer zones have been built sometimes in the past sooo...
There is at least one 2-territory, where a shipyard would change a lot (Cairo). Besides that, what should the restriction be? Nothing could become really ugly for the Confeds, once the Union is through Columbus/New Madrid or New Orleans.
For repairs I would go with one manpower, 3 supplies, 5 industry. But it should only happen after the turn, so you can't use it to build ships in that turn. On the other side that means, that Union couldn't use the +1 movement
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@wirkey Then it can only be done by downgrading it to another unit (that needs to be added). Not up to me (and not even a player), but I would take this opportunity to also make shipyard a unit you build in 2 turns (so this other unit would be both the downgrade of shipyard and the first build of it, for a new one).
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@cernel I'd say let's not go and make significant changes to the map. Let's just focus on capturing anything that doesn't work as intended and consider if they would be easy to fix in the XML.
The 3 production or started with one, is a pretty important rule as it limits the places shipyards can be built.
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@cernel did you already change something? I'm in bot 501 trying to play CW and we get these errors:
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Another bug is that Union subs are missing the required facility of "shipyard_u" and only have "shipyard" specified so can't be placed unless you edit in a "shipyard".
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@wirkey Are those 2 separate bugs at the same time?
What I see is a notification text missing and a fuel cost bug.
For the fuel bug, I suggest you open a bug report in Git Hub, if you have it again.
For the notification, that would be a matter relevant for this topic, so move it there if it happens again (but that (Confederate_Take_Loan_at30.OTHER_NOTIFICATION_SUCCESS) wasn't changed):
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/901/civil-war-war-financing-issues/17?page=1It is not actually possible to test such notifications on local. You need another user to make the action.
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@wirkey For the notification display fail (NO: Confederate_Take_Loan_at30.OTHER_NOTIFICATION_SUCCESS set.), report/move it here if it happens again or you can find a way (for others) to reproduce it:
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/901/civil-war-war-financing-issuesThanks for testing.
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Moved to Maps & Mods.
I think this is a good collection of issues that the Civil War map has, and that can all be solved at a game (xml) level. However, it is needed a reliable player of the map to do that, as I'm not sure if making these changes without playtesting the game is really better than doing nothing (I'd rather not).
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Hi all. Just replying to this as a convenient thread to save creating a new one. I've enjoyed many maps (particularly the WWII, WWI and LoTR) and thought this looked like a good one to try next. Contrary to the view of one contributor, we do have awareness of the US Civil War here in the UK. Please can anyone let me know whether this scenario (either or both variants) is highly playable or not? Thanks, Matt
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@mattbarnes Issues wise, the main one should not have any major problems anymore, if ever. No idea about the small one, but I recall complaints. For gameplay, you'll have to wait for someone else, because I tried for half a round but gave up.
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