Red Sun Over China - Possible Bugs (RESOLVED)
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@wirkey @erik542 It appears the UK having less income until they are at war with the Axis is intended based on the conversation in the old thread: http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/Red-Sun-Over-China-td4466393i40.html
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That is correct that UK is intended to have less income at the start to make sure they don't rolfstomp thailand.
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Historically, Thailand or Britain never attacked each other in WW2 (they also had a non aggression pact, and Thailand sought guarantees from Britain against the Japanese), until after Thailand was invaded by Japan and forced to sign an armistice; only after Thailand was effectively a Japanese occupied territory, the, at this point puppet, government of Thailand declared on the Allies.
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A skim through the Wiki is telling me that Thailand initially sought Japanese aid in fighting France to reclaim some territory in 10-1940 which is quite a bit before than the Japanese invasion in 12-1941. Thailand did declare war on the UK in Jan 1942 and there was fighting over Burma. While the time frame is out of sync with the rest of the map, there was no politics option back in the day to better simulate the delayed entry into the war.
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@erik542 Yeah the war between Thailand and Indochina is missing too, but that one was almost a farce looking at casualties (a few hundred), so I think it is better not being represented.
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@erik542 To be clear, attacking France at that point didn't mean attacking the Allies, as France (Vichy based) was not anymore in any anti-Axis alliance (and Britain was attacking France too, at that point).
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Well looking at the game notes, the Thai-UK NAP is represented by "3) British are not allowed to fight Axis for the first 3 rounds (Phase I), unless any Axis country attacks it first."
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Here is a little prototype for your new design.
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Decorations...
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Updated screenshot:
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Latest changes: https://github.com/triplea-maps/red_sun_over_china/pull/9
Changes
- Reworked trains to be land transports and removed all the old sea rail territories
- Added politics and triggers to remove phase I -> II function
- Fixed NOs
Everything seems to work well except trains can't actually transport other units yet as the engine doesn't handle land transports with canals.
closed Rework trains and update map image #9
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@redrum If only there were someone with the skills and abilities to make that happen.
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Hey guys, esp Redrum, that's amazing progress. Well done!
Most of the modding is over my head but do shout if I can help with anything. I just saw one early request to do some testing, but I've not been on the site since then and maybe the moment has passed?
I note the reference back to the 2010 dialogue, eg relating to the UK -27 Obj etc. But that seemed to be about v2.1 and v2.2, whereas the current is v2.3. I think therefore that the 2010 dialogue was probably superseded. I would assume that all Objs in v2.3 are as Pulicat intended, perhaps after he did further playtesting. Therefore I would amend the Notes to match the code not vice versa, with the exception of the UK -27 which I think may be a coding legacy, as I didn't see it coming into play and it makes the UK too weak. (What's the complete trigger condition?)
What's interesting about the dialogue is that Pulicat was really keen for the railways to be crucial to Japanese logistics (eg bringing-up extra fodder infantry). That doesn't seem to happen in the games I've been playing (albeit just a couple) as it's just so much more efficient to use mobile infantry. The foot infantry are just too slow reaching the front line, even after a train ride. Incidentally, I'm unclear what Pulicat's intentions were about the China factories as the dialogue said he deleted them to force the Japanese to use the railways, whereas the Notes indicate that these factories are present, damaged and repairable. If the latter in the case then would a player use the railways much?
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@mattbarnes Yeah, its hard to tell as XML has one thing, notes have another, and what actually happens in the game due to some errors in the XML is another. I've mostly gone on the XML being what was intended and the UK -27 was still in the XML in 2.3 (I think either an engine changed made it not function or it never functioned correctly) so I fixed it and just made it -25 so its a more even number.
I think the map has a ways to go for balancing so just need to start somewhere then we can adjust things.
After I make the engine enhancement then it'll be ready to start playing some games to test balance and find any remaining bugs.
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Alright, the engine change PR is up now: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/3894
Everything should be working once that is merged into the pre-release.
I ended up doing trains closer to the original implementation and sticking to the station model rather than something closer to TWW. Trains are now land transports which can only move to territories with stations. Moving between stations requires owning the necessary land territories that the rail moves through.
From an XML standpoint, this is achieved through the following:
- Trains are land transports, have 2 moves, can be captured, and only move during non-combat move (will need to balance test to decide if they should be captured or destroyed and whether they can be SBR)
- Trains require stations to move (just like trains require rail in TWW) and there are invisible station units in the necessary territories
- There are land canals that replaced the old sea canals between stations which require the necessary land territories between stations to be owned
- There are a second set of land canals between stations that only allow trains to use the station to station connect
- Property "Control All Canals Between Territories To Pass" is set to true so that both canals must be checked to pass through
Train Moving a Few Units Through 2 Stations
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PR is merged so if you download the latest map and the pre-release, you should be able to test it out: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/1.9.0.0.11597
This should be ready for the balance phase now, please let me know if you are interested in a PBF/PBEM game.
I'm still going to work on cleaning up the notes and a few other visual enhancements but those shouldn't impact gameplay/balance.
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@redrum said in Red Sun Over China - possible bugs:
Property "Control All Canals Between Territories To Pass" is set to true so that both canals must be checked to pass through
Haha, I was right someone would have had a use for that!
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@redrum I think trains should use more movement if there are more territories in between of the stations.
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@redrum Just on that UK adjustment, I think the -27 (rather than -25) was already "round" because I think it was originally intended to cut the UK from 47 to 20. Presumably after turn 3, the UK gets a huge boost because they then become 47+30 (or +40), ie a jump from 20 to 77. That would be interesting. When Axis first take their gloves off, the UK will be very weak and on the back foot, whereas with 47 per turn they could build up enough forces to influence the game as soon as they enter. Perhaps that will make the game more realistic than I've found it to date because Axis ought to push UK back to the Indian border. BUT is this Obj actually triggering or was there a fault with that bit of code? I don't think the deduction was happening in the game I played.
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@cernel Regarding the contemporary train lines, I think your map is correct but I wonder if Pulicat was trying to include some of the major highways too, representing them with trains even though they were actually roads? You'll see that many of the routes in the game appear on this map:
www.emersonkent.com\map_archive/china_1937.htm
