Tournament of Champions (Season 5) for AA 50 Anniversary '41 version
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@deltium @ deltium this is going faster than I thought I think you should be able to use the tourney section by the time we start
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sign me up please
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@wasp
k boss
added glhf bro -
@raville been thinking about your proposal, it doesn't actually prevent playing always the same side. Assume a player always playing and winning with the Allies, he loses the Axis bracket, then wins the Final with the Allies again.
If we really want to force a player to change side along the tournament, we could introduce an "Allies Index" attached to each player.
Each player starts the tournament with "Allies Index" = 0.
Players get +1 to their Index for each game won on the Allies side and -1 to their Index for each game won on the Axis side.
For each new game, the bid is modified by adding to it the "Allies Index" of the opponent and subtracting to it the player's own "Allies Index".
Let's assume in the third round of the tourney two players face each other, one is very good with Allies, he won both his previous games with the Allies and therefore his Index = 2, the second player is very good with the Axis, his Index = -2.
Now they must be very careful with their bidding process, as the Allies lover gets a -4 modifier if his bid is lower, while the Axis lover gets a +4 modifier for "accepting" the Allies.
Now the effect of introducing this index is very interesting and probably goes beyond that of forcing players to swap sides during the tournament.
By winning with the Axis, in fact, you are actually building a small bonus to play Allies next. This will most likely lead to an average increase of the bids to play the Allies, which will on turn give way to some unprecedented scenarios -
@Icelander the idea is to make it simpler as possible and not to change side along the tournament but to game the opposite side at least once; it could be done if half of participants are as Axis and other half as Allies in one brackets and the opposite in other bracket at first round (13 bid to Allies). After this, all other rounds could have a normal bidding system following @Deltium recommendation as fundamental. Furthermore all participants will have 2 chances and should game both sides once; also as you pointed it, isn’t quite good to have a loser’s bracket and could better be having both brackets with winners making the procedure as simple as possible. Thanks for your idea and system that looks interesting (maybe for a Ladder) but implementation details should be done by @Deltium, @Prastle as well perhaps of approval or suggestions by other participants.
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@raville my proposal is to add the "Allies Index" to the "Double Elimination" method. It would ensure that the winners have not won all their games on the same side. I see you want each player to try the other side at least once, regardless if they win or loose. Could be done, just me I don't like the fixed bid.
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@Icelander the fixed bid is just to the first game allowing all gamers at beginning to be even and in the same conditions with standard setting, then winners of the first round procced with bidding all rest of the games. It could help noobs and all to begin in a more balance game with both powers. Everybody starts even ! :winking_face:
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@raville I see then you don't always play Allies in your Allies bracket or Axis in your Axis bracket, well, playing two games at the same time, this could be even faster than the Double Elimination method, fine for me
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@Deltium @prastle @Icelander Half participants are Axis and other half are Allies in one bracket; opposite is set in the other bracket, then everybody has both powers at beginning. It is in challonge.com and it’s named: Two Stage Tournament - Groups compete separately, winner proceed to a final stage. Single elimination in each bracket and must include a match for 3rd place. Can participate much more than 24 gamers (example: 12 Axis & 12 Allies one bracket / opposite 12 Allies & 12 Axis other bracket), everybody game both powers and start with same conditions (bid 13 Allies) in the first round, then bidding for the rest of games. Seed could be randomizing aleatory. I propose 2 games a month - 30 days. https://challonge.com/tournaments/new so simple and easy I think!
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@Raville - well, I give you credit for coming up with a new idea ! :thumbs_up_medium-light_skin_tone:
I will seriously consider, and please give me a few days to do so.
I am grateful that you have thought so deeply about this.
It does look feasible, and I will give it some serious thought.In the meantime, let's continue to try to get to 16 players, so that we can launch the tournament overall.
Cheers, Deltium
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@raville Interesting. I personally hope we have the new ladder tourney site set up by then but interesting
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@Deltium @prastle Just wanted to give some ideas that maybe could serve to make ToC much easier, agile and fair to all participants showing their skills and own strategies with both powers: Axis & Allies, optimizing it in a shorter time and making gaming in a Tournament more attractive and interesting to all. Thanks both of you for your commitment in tournaments that are great and enjoyable to us and our TA site.
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I would like to participate.
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@mogwai added GLHF! bro
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I would like to join this tournament.
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@Islandia - you are registered, thanks for participating !
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OFFICIAL UPDATE
We are now at 16 players, which is GREAT !
We can launch the tournament now, but I would like to wait for a few additional sign-ups, for the wait-list, just in case.
There's a hope in me that we can reach 32 players, but I would be fine with also launching the tournament with 16.Importantly, I am going to give the suggestion from @Raville some serious thought, in terms of the tournament format.
If anybody would like to share their personal views, please do so in the interim.Cheers, Deltium
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@Deltium Thanks for you information and great you are thinking about a Two Stage Tournament proposal with a Single Elimination in each bracket, wishing to have a successful ToC 5 and expecting suggestions by other participants. Greetings to all.
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@Raville and ALL - I really gave the alternate tournament format suggestion a LOT of thought, and I will comment as follows:
- First of all, I want to emphasize that I thank you for putting some good thought into how the tournament may be improved, and I want to emphasize that we will continue to seriously consider ANY changes to the tournament formats going forward. As you can see in the updated rules, I did add a clear point about rule changes going forward:
Rule Changes: Any player may submit a proposed rule change to the TripleA Tournament Director for consideration. The TripleA Tournament Director will consult with the Admins, and if appropriate, shall allow all members to vote on the requested change over a reasonable period of time. If there is substantial support to change the rule, the rule shall be changed accordingly.
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Second, I want to highlight again the importance of the double-elimination format for tournaments such as this. The reason is that a double elimination tournament accomplishes THREE really important goals of tournaments at Triple A, namely, (1) it gives EVERY player a "2nd chance" to continue playing in the tournament and NOT get eliminated after some bad luck, or against an opponent that is much better than you, and (2) it creates a more statistically-accurate format for the best players to truly win the tournament, and very importantly, (3) it gives people who have lost one game to be paired in the 2nd game with a player more likely closer to their skill level, and hence, allows people to connect more frequently and play together informally, which builds the TripleA community into a long-term and healthy ecosystem.
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Third, I do agree that the best Anniversary players should be able to play both the Axis and the Allies solidly, but I continue to believe that this can be best accomplished with very careful consideration about your BID. The bidding process is designed to accomplish several key things, namely (1) forcing BOTH players to transparently select the actual & exact IPCs that they believe to be FAIR, versus a forced bid of 13 IPCs or X IPCs, and (2) it does not imply that a person will only play either the Axis or the Allied powers. Looking back at the results of the previous tournaments, I do see many players playing both sides, and even if you find one person that has played only the Allies, than this is a good signal to you to ADJUST your bid accordingly to take this player out of their "comfort zone" by perhaps bidding for the Allies lower.
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Lastly, you raised a good point about the time requirement for the individual games and tournament overall. I will indeed do my best to ensure that this tournament moves along a bit faster. In ToC4, many of the delays in the tournament were caused by individual games holding up the entire bracket. For ToC5, I will be quite strict on 45 days for the winner's bracket and 30 days for the loser's bracket. As you can see in the new Revised tournament that I launched recently, we have made very swift progress in just a couple months, and it is proceeding at a very healthy pace. I will certainly enforce adjudication if the games reach the deadline. I would like to make it shorter, 30 days, for all games, but as this is a PBEM / PBF tournament at heart, we must be respectful for people that can only play at most one turn per day, given commitments to other aspects of their lives. I am one such person that cannot play live very often as I work in Asia currently, and hence, the time difference is too difficult for many people who live in other parts of the world.
Therefore, for ToC5, I would like to keep this tournament in the traditional double-elimination format. However, I do encourage feedback on this point, and I am certainly willing to reconsider in the future ToCs if there is a material change in demand by the players. Personally, I want to thank you again and emphasize that there is indeed good merit in your thoughts, and I hope that you have a good tournament !!
Cheers, Deltium
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ToC 5 (Season5) for AA Anniversary '41 version -- NEXT STEPS
OK, we seem to have settled on a solid 16 players. I will work on seedings this weekend, and expect to have this finished by Sunday. In the interim, I want everyone to familiarize themselves with the rules (including but not limited to the timing restrictions), and ensure that you know how to play PBEM.
Please do NOT commit to play in this tournament unless you are able to play PBEM and unless you understand ALL of the rules. If anyone is new to PBEM, then please just email me at 5683deltium@gmail.com, and I will help you get setup.
PBEM instructions: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/39/how-to-pbem-a-visual-guide
AA50 rules: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/394/triplea-rules-for-anniversary-edition-tournaments
Also, I recommend that you prepare your secret battle plans !!
Cheers, Deltium
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