WW2 alternate Scenario - 7 years war Revisited
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An Entente Misheard
Alternate History/Background:
Following the victory of the entente over the central powers, peace negotiations begin in Versailles in 1919. However, two days prior to this, French President George Clemenceau, hailed as the driving political force for the entente’s success and its ‘utter’ defeat of the central powers dies under mysterious circumstances. The unexpected event causes a sudden panic within the Republic, French diplomatic forces are ready to place the blame on any nation, including its trusted ally, the United Kingdom (indeed there have been rumours holding the British responsible). However, in light of the current situation, there is desperation to call the war to the end, and an underprepared negotiator is sent on the behalf of the French.
The beginning of the negotiation unfolds as expected: the colonial holdings of the German and Ottoman empires are separated as originally decided upon during the secret negotiations between Britain and France. German colonies including Namibia, Ghana, Nigeria, Tanzania, and Guinea in Oceania fall into British possession, with France gaining Germany’s other African colonies, including Togo and Chad. As for the Ottoman Empire, France was ceded the agreed-upon area of Syria (at the time including southern Anatolia and Lebanon), with Britain receiving the trans-Jordanian region. Franco-British promises of a guaranteed Arab nation, free from Ottoman rule are ignored; the middle-eastern nations with their various nomadic tribes are left to fend for themselves.
Russia, now the Soviet Republic is forced to hand over parts of its Western holdings, allowing for the creation of Poland and cessation of land towards certain Baltic, now-independent nations. Italy was given its certain, pre-negotiated territories from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. On the other side of the world, Japan is given Germany’s trading posts and concessions in China, as well as its island holdings in the Pacific. It is assumed that this victory for the Japanese provide the spark fuelling forward their expansionist ambitions, eventually coming to view themselves as the true Asian authority, under whom all other Asian nations must follow.
The issue of Germany was primarily handled by a particularly-prepared Britain, who directing the negotiations ensured that Alsace-Lorraine re-entered French possession. However, her views concerning the rest of Germany did not mirror France’s ambition to dismantle the culpable nation. Instead, Britain opted to push for a whole, unified German nation, encompassing parts of both what was the Prussian and Austro-Hungarian empires. Britain’s idea was to create a balance of power in Europe such that a war would be unthinkable lest the consequences of the ‘Great War’ be reproduced. France, severely weakened, and short of its main political figurehead was unable to argue against Britain’s vision for Europe, despite it creating the very thing it had sought to destroy. America, seeing itself as a mediator chose to support Britain’s view if it gave Guinea to the French, enabling it a greater foothold in other theatres to compensate. The treaty was signed.
Back in France, the people were furious, and demanded a re-negotiation. However, with almost all other nations reluctant to return to the negotiation table, it was evident that little could be done in the now, and France had to plan ahead for the future.France, discontent with the current global equilibrium sought to reach out to fellow nations in order to form an alliance that would ultimately end the Anglo-German threat indefinitely. Reaching out first to Italy, a historical friend who felt equally if not more threatened by the German super-nation. France also reached out to Spain, who, though it had sought to remain neutral in the previous war had a growing nationalist sentiment. France promised Spain the restoration of its colonies if it came to its aid during its affront against the Anglo-German Alliance. Lastly, France negotiated an alliance with the USSR, a country equally if not more disgruntled by the Treaty of Versailles, and keen to spread its ideas of Communism to other nations. With a rumoured limitless manpower, France sought to re-use its strategy of allying itself with Russia, a country with a now unbreakable ambition. The ties between these nations were formalised in Rome, as the ‘Foedi Sporoi-Latinus’.
Britain, finding itself in a security dilemma (ironically the sentiment that led France to form its alliances) sought out a Japan invigorated by its nationalist imperialist sentiment, to ‘neutralise’ the Soviet threat. Unfortunately, this decision could prove to be a double-edged sword, as, though the French had solidified their sphere of influence in their Sino-Siamese region of ‘Indochine’, Japanese expansionist ambitions could lead to a war with China. Also taking place, and likely to prove fortunate for the British, the Netherlands, worried by French ambitions to restore their natural borders in the process of permanently dismantling the German nation sought to align itself with Anglo-German alliance, now calling itself: Pax Terra
Notes:
- The Portuguese, worried by the increasing global tension, allow a custodianship on the behalf of their old allies, the British.
- The Americans, feeling culpable for the current global situation seek not to embroil themselves further into the chaos that will likely ensue.
- The middle-eastern nations, now distrusting of French and the British due to their broken promises seal of the borders and fortify themselves in preparation of the war to come
- Scandinavian nations remain neutral during this conflict (likely a true-neutral alignment)
Side-objectives by nation:
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Spain:
o I was hoping for Spain to have an interesting dynamic, it would in the very least be important for them, when holding their main nation to maintain a few additional PUs per turn
o I think we can have this sort of accelerationism effect with Spain, as the nation gradually gathers its colonial holdings it gains increasingly large amounts of PUs
o It is a given that a Spanish control of its old south-American holdings (and the Caribbean which should be a neutral territory without military power) should grant it a significant PU bonus- however whether this should solely be Spanish control, or a control of Latin America by the Foedus is something I remain uncertain about (+ 10-15 PUs?)
o I think it is important to make the control of the Philippines by Spain an objective with a very large PU bonus, however the consequence should be the United States declaring war the Foedus (+ 7-10 PUs?)
o Equally it could be interesting to have taking control of Mexico and Western United-States as other PU-generating objectives (+7-10PUs?)
o In addition to this, we can provide something similar for when Spain has both control of the Philippines and Formosa (seeing as the latter was also a brief Spanish possession) (+ 3 PUs) -
Italy:
o Mare nostrum: the Foedus has secured the control of the Mediterranean
o Imperium Romanum: all historical territories of the Roman Empire (except Great Britain) are under Foedian control. This includes neutral territories -
France:
o Gosh, I really don’t like orange: control of the Netherlands – 1 PU
o Frontières Naturelles: Control of the Netherlands, (Switzerland?) and Western Germany – 5 PUs (?)
o Thank God, no more Orange: all Dutch provinces under Foedian control – 3 PUs
o Vive le Québec libre-ish ! : French control of Quebec (+ 5 PUs)
o Good Old New France: France controls Quebec, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Ontario, and Central United States (+2 PUs)
o It was a French Invention: French (Foedian) control of Egypt and Trans-Jordan - +2PUs -
United Kingdom:
o Pax Britannia: British control of Paris (+3 PUs to all members of Pax Terra at the end of their respective turns)
o Ching chong French gone: no more French holdings in Asia - +3 PUs
o Abritca: no more French (Foedian?) holdings in Africa
o Revolution quelled: British Control of Eastern United States - + 2 PUs
o It’s spelt: ‘Guyana’: no more French holdings in South America - + 1-2 PUs
o Rule Britannia: French holdings are limited to Europe - +3 PUs -
Japan:
o No, we don’t look the same: Japan is at war with China (ceases if and when China is defeated) + 2 PUs
o Kami-crazy: attack the US and secure the Philippines (+12 PUs)
o Japan Alps: Japan controls a territory in which there are Alps: northern Italy, Switzerland or Central France - +5 PUs -
Germany:
o German Ambition: Germany controls Indo-China - +5 PUs
o German African Ambition: Germany Retakes its colonial possessions from before WW1, as well as Morocco from France - +2PUs
o Slav, slave: all Russian territories are under Pax Terran control, except Moscow
o Solidifying the 2nd Reich: Pax Terran control over Slavic (and Yugoslavian) territories - +2 PUs -
USSR:
o One, united, Soviet Socialist Republics: USSR controls all Slavic-Speaking countries, e.g. Poland and neutral Romania, etc. - +2 PUs
o So did we really need it in the end?: USSR controls Alaska - +3PUs
o Finally finishing that railroad: USSR controls Manchuria - +3PUs -
ANZAC:
o Disenfrenchised: no Foedian-held territories in Oceania - +2PUs
Additional Notes:
- As you, dear reader, may already have noticed, I have specially chosen objectives that incite nations to attack neutral countries, especially the US to make the game more interesting -> seeing as the US will function similar to how it did once attacked (i.e. takes the side of party against its attacker) it could lead to some interesting dynamics
- Nations will need to be rebalanced. Though this does not necessarily mean changing PU values for each territory (especially as I would hope this game to work easily on the TripleA system). Most importantly, the troops between Western Germany and France will need to be adjusted. Similarly, it could be worth creating a somewhat able Foedian fleet in the SZ north of Spain and West of Normandy-Bordeaux, ideally consisting of mainly French, but also Spanish ships. I think we must also rebalance the Foedian troops and ships (or at least their distribution) in North Africa and the Mediterranean sea.
- Lastly, it is worth mentioning that the Dutch-controlled territory of Holland-Belgium will have 1 factory
- As Angola and Mozambique will act as friendly troops for Pax Terra, there will need to be some rebalancing on the Foedian side. I propose placing a plane or two in Madagascar. However, I am open to other ideas.
- In order to suit the historical mood (and rebalancing) I have tweaked territorial holdings in the Pacific theatre. I am still uncertain as to the exact placement of Dutch troops in the Dutch East Indies. As for China, Yunnan, Kwangsi and Hainan are French holdings (as per an extension of their historical sphere of influence – see introduction); Kiangsi and Hunan are British possessions; Kiangsu will be Chinese (and well defended)- as incite the Japanese to attack China due to otherwise having to use transports to move their troops to re-join with/support their with their British counterparts. I should think that a French plane should be placed on Hainan, a factory in French Indo-China, as well as a small fleet beside it, giving a potential fighting chance. Equally, it could be worth either buffing up either the number of Chinese troops, or the French reinforcements in its Chinese holdings.
- It is worth noting that any nation can attack China, however, no nation can enter Chinese owned-territory. China shall function as America in its choice of alliance.
- Once neutral troops are attacked in Latin America, they will side with the opposite side
- Neutral troops attacked in the middle east remain neutral, regardless of having been attacked
- Neutral troops in Europe once attacked will side with the opposite side
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@PortableDoor
right on hey i recommend a full space instead of just a sentence break. That's a pretty intimidating wall of text : ) -
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@beelee , thanks for the adivce. As I'm re-reading my post, I think you may well have a point there.
I confess that I had originally typed this up as a word document, and copy-pasted it into the forum.Do you have any other tips that could make my proposed scenario more easily approachable?
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@PortableDoor heh heh hi portable welcome to the site
I powered through it because i found it interesting
I'd say rock on with whatever feels right I'll reread it again when it's not so late for me You could post here as well for more viewers
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/unread
probably want to find the right subforum. Then again, might get more action if you don't
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@beelee thank you very much, I'll see what coverage I get there.
Thank you for finding the courage to power through it
I had also posted here in hopes of getting help with the map creation- which though I should have mentioned it in retrospect, I was also worried that I might overwhelm the reader a little too much.
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@PortableDoor Welcome to the forum!
Intriguing concept. I enjoyed the read. The back story is well formulated and creates a rich tapestry of your idea.
One of the things that will help to cultivate interest is to add some visuals of what you are proposing. Like a screen shot showing what map you are planing to use.
As far as assistance, there is a pretty good bunch here that are always willing to help guide you through the obstacles you might face.
Look forward to seeing more.
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yea this is the place for map creation. sadly idk how to do it. Just xml work
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@Hepps thank you for the encouragement
Being the lazy person I am, I was hoping to superimpose this scenario on a 1940 Global map so that there is slightly less work to do.
What I can post right now, if you are interested, is/are (a) screenshot(s) of a map whose territories and units I have slightly modified via edit mode to better reflect the scenario -
@PortableDoor Well you can simply load up G40 game... then edit ownership of some of the territories... then use the export function to get a snap shot of the map...
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@PortableDoor said in WW2 alternate Scenario - 7 years war Revisited:
I was hoping to superimpose this scenario on a 1940 Global map so that there is slightly less work to do.
God no. Global is maybe the most distorted game ever, it hardly resembles our planet anymore. You can find a number of maps in TripleA that at least look better than Global.
BTW, why 7 years war? I was thinking this had something to do with what's probably the biggest missing scenario of TripleA so far.
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@Cernel I completely agree with you, and have also long since wanted an authentic, TripleA 7 Years War Scenario.
However, seeing as the detail of maps and Eastern civilisations makes things a little complex, I was uncertain that I was yet in my capacity to take it on as a task.
Equally, with a 1700s scenario, there will be no planes, or other fancy technology like submarines, etc- which I worried could make gameplay boring.I guess my desire for a 7 Years War and an A&A game where France can actually have a somewhat notable role lead me to come up with this scenario- not to say that I wouldn't appreciate a 7 Years War scenario
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@Hepps ! Brilliant! And here I was methodically zooming out and taking screenshots of sections of my map to make something composite.
Unfortunately size limitations mean that I have had to downgrade the Snapshot quality, but I hope this gives somewhat of an idea-
obviously Spain is missing, and there is no formal setup for the Netherlands (if there should even be one in the final game)
edit: I realise that there is a slight error in the European area of the map. I believe it would better fit the 'history' if it looked more like this
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@PortableDoor So, of course, my main suggestion is that you pick only one project, until that is fully done and reasonably playtested and all.
Secondarily, I tend to agree than a WW2 alternative scenario mod is a much easier project to start with, even tho I think a fairly historical game about the 7 years war would be way more interesting, if well made, but certainly an ambitious project.
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@Cernel I think I'll stick to this project for now
Let's see what the future brings! -
@PortableDoor said in WW2 alternate Scenario - 7 years war Revisited:
@Hepps ! Brilliant! And here I was methodically zooming out and taking screenshots of sections of my map to make something composite.
Unfortunately size limitations mean that I have had to downgrade the Snapshot quality, but I hope this gives somewhat of an idea-
Now your cooking! You can also start to use a drawing program to flush out your idea's visually. Just add some of the stuff in on the picture you have now. ie. Alliances... national disposition...
It will help you to formulate a clearer idea of what you plan to do.
Eg.
obviously Spain is missing, and there is no formal setup for the Netherlands (if there should even be one in the final game)
Now looking at some of the things you have identified as goals for your scenario... you may want to take @Cernel advice since this Global map may not be well suited for your designs. A good place to start is to download as many (world) map based games from the repository as you can and open all of them up... see if there is a better map to suit your designs.
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@Hepps wow, that's great!
Although I do have a two questions:- firstly, I was wondering which drawing program you would recommend
- secondly, if you had an idea of a map that you think would go well (or even @Cernel if you're reading this, feel free to post your idea)
(also, Russia is allied with the French, but that's nothing too major to worry about :
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@PortableDoor I use a combination of paint . net and GIMP. But there are lots of different programs.
As far as a map choice... that is for you to explore... I would not rob you of the joys of making what you want.
