How to select a specific fighter as casualty?
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@goodfelladh2003 figs with the least amount of movement are automatically selected for casualties (aside from random aa hits) since there is no reason to select them any other way.
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@ubernaut yea it's not doing that. It whacks the one with 2 movement. I tried it in WWIIv5 and got the same results he did and then in Global it worked the way you would expect.
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@beelee also, anniversary i think
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@ubernaut yea those are v3 rules. My guess is the v2 ruleset is why it does it ? Idk
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I could step through the code if you can give me a save at the casualty selection for both the maps. That would help determine why it is doing it is doing it differently.
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@Trevan wow I can't produce it now. The first time I ran it 3 times in a row and got the same result @goodfelladh2003 had. Now a half dozen tries later and it works correctly.
Unfortunately I already copied over the save showing that. I guess @goodfelladh2003 next time it happens make a save.
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We have Github issues discussing this. For example
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/4133 -
@Panther yea this seems slightly different since no AA involved but this definitely seems the same:
5 bombers (4 with 3 remaining movement points and 1 with 1 mp) attacked a factory and 2 were shot down.
The engine saved the 2 with 3 mp and the one with 1 mp without asking anything.At any rate I've never really noticed it before myself. Maybe this has been fixed ? @goodfelladh2003 what triplea version are you using ?
Edit
The more I think about the above example I think that's just the random selection of targets by AA ? I mean AA could hit indiscriminately. I think it does it a little different than regular combat. -
@beelee said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
yea this seems slightly different since no AA involved but this definitely seems the same:
It was part of the very complex forum discussion linked in the Github issue, as far as I remember and has been discussed in other contexts, too.
Maybe this has been fixed ?
No, it has not been fixed, I am afraid.
that's just the random selection of targets by AA
It should not be selected randomly. It's usuallly the player's decision which unit to take out.
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@Panther isnt there an "option" on some maps to "randomly choose casualties" ?
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@Panther said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
It should not be selected randomly. It's usuallly the player's decision which unit to take out.
AA is random isn't it? I don't think i have ever been able to select them.
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@SilverBullet yea I thought I remember something about random AA casualties but I'm not 100% sure. You can choose between an Escort and a Bomber but if more than one Bmbr it would randomly select if they had different movement, which they usually don't.
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@ff03k64 said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
@Panther said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
It should not be selected randomly. It's usuallly the player's decision which unit to take out.
AA is random isn't it? I don't think i have ever been able to select them.
That exactly is a / the problem. By the rules the attacker chooses which air unit he wants to take out.
Depending on the rules AA should fire separately against a group of fighters and a group of bombers - and within this group the attacker should be free to assign the hit(s). But rulesets vary!
For details please see:
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/989/open-aa-revised-bug-aa-fire-casualty-selection-issues
Regarding the somehow systematic "take-out error", see especially
https://forums.triplea-game.org/post/26839 -
@SilverBullet said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
@Panther isnt there an "option" on some maps to "randomly choose casualties" ?
Not that I am aware of. But I do not know all maps. I am focussing on the wwII-games and the core game rules.
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@Panther said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
@SilverBullet said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
@Panther isnt there an "option" on some maps to "randomly choose casualties" ?
Not that I am aware of. But I do not know all maps. I am focussing on the wwII-games and the core game rules.
There is an option called "Random AA Casualties". That allows maps to have random casualties. There's also "Roll AA Individually" and "Choose AA Casualties" which affect how AA casualties are selected as well.
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@Trevan Thank you. Unfortunately it seems that - if present - although the option is checked in the wwII-games the issue persists. However this needs to be analyzed when dealing with Github issue #4133.
What does "Roll AA individually" cause? I assume it is a house rule, as AA usually should roll against a group of bombers, a group of fighters, a group of whatever air unit individually/separately, but not individually against every plane... Again I am only arguing from the core game-rules point of view.
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@Panther If you don't mind clarifying, if one has one AAgun with 3 shots and 2 ftrs and 2 Bmbrs attack, the AAgun would decide how to split up his rolls ? So 1 at the ftrs and 2 at the Bmbrs ? Or vice versa ?
So instead of shooting all at once and getting one hit and being able to decide what to take as a casualty, If you got your one hit against the ftr, then the Bmbrs would be safe. Is that how it's supposed to go ?
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@Panther said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
@Trevan Thank you. Unfortunately it seems that - if present - although the option is checked in the wwII-games the issue persists. However this needs to be analyzed when dealing with Github issue #4133.
What does "Roll AA individually" cause? I assume it is a house rule, as AA usually should roll against a group of bombers, a group of fighters, a group of whatever air unit individually/separately, but not individually against every plane... Again I am only arguing from the core game-rules point of view.
I think "Roll AA Individually" matches one roll from the AA guns with a plane. If the roll was successful, then the plane is shot. So, if you have 4 AA shots and 5 planes, then it will hit the first plane if the first roll is a success, the second plane if the second roll is a success, the third plane if the third roll is a success, and the fourth plane if the fourth roll is a success.
"Random AA Casualties" will instead randomly fire at the list instead of in order. So if you have 4 AA shots and 5 planes, then it will first figure out how many successful shots and randomly pick enough planes to match those successes.
It appears that the "Roll AA Individually" is affected by the order of the planes but I haven't yet figured out what decides the order.
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@beelee said in How to select a specific fighter as casualty?:
@Panther If you don't mind clarifying, if one has one AAgun with 3 shots and 2 ftrs and 2 Bmbrs attack, the AAgun would decide how to split up his rolls ? So 1 at the ftrs and 2 at the Bmbrs ? Or vice versa ?
So instead of shooting all at once and getting one hit and being able to decide what to take as a casualty, If you got your one hit against the ftr, then the Bmbrs would be safe. Is that how it's supposed to go ?
See the above mentioned Gihub-issue;
Until v4 an AA gun shoots one shot per plane against a group of fighters / a group of bombers. The attacker chooses from within the groups.
In v5 and 1940 a maximum of three shots per AAgun go against all planes and the attacker chooses. -
@Panther well " World War II v5 1942 Second Edition" which is what goodfellah is playing, has 3 shots for the AAgun. At least that's what it says when I hover on it in triplea.
At any rate, no big deal
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