Total World War (TWW) 2.7.7.2

RoiEX

@prastle Could you try uploading the file again?

Hepps

@roiex Just finishing off my last corrections and alterations.

prastle

@roiex ![0_1514930220088_th[1].jpg](Uploading 100%)

prastle

@RoiEX all good bro its just a mammoth image
but yes we seem to have a prob

RoiEX

@prastle what's the filesize of the image?

General_Zod

@roiex
Regarding, the uploads to this forum.

MS Edge stopped uploading about 2 months ago after it auto updated itself. MS Explorer still works though.

prastle

@general_zod 0_1514984965833_th[1].jpg

Yup you are correct @General_Zod firefox works as well. I hadn't switched back to it after the new hard drives and clean install.

ghostronin

@Hepps Rule question: Is it considered a legal move to self-destruct units? For example, if I'm Russia, isolated in Moscow with 5 capturable trucks and surrounded by Germans. Defeat is imminent. May I, as the Russian player, edit and remove the trucks on my turn so as to prevent capture by the Germans on my defeat on the subsequent turn?

redrum

@ghostronin I'm almost positive the answer to that is no.

Hepps

@ghostronin Speaking strictly by the rules... no. We never made any provissions within the game for suicide.

That being said.... you can always pass the idea past your opponent. If you are in agreement... then nothing to stop you from making it part of your game. Whether someone who is about to inherit 5 trucks is going to agree to that? That remains to be seen.

General_Zod

@redrum
Here's that console error you asked for.

Jan 07, 2018 5:05:05 PM games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattleStepsPanel setStep
WARNING: Could not find step name:Japan withdraw?
Jan 07, 2018 5:05:08 PM games.strategy.triplea.ui.BattleStepsPanel setStep
WARNING: Could not find step name:Japan withdraw?
java.lang.IllegalStateException: Not in an event, but trying to add change:CompositeChange <[CompositeChange <[ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Germany name:triggerAttachmentgermanaTAAT new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Germany name:triggerAttachmentgermanaTAAT new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Germany name:triggerAttachmengermanImpAT new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Germany name:triggerAttachmengermanImpAT new value:false old value:true]>, CompositeChange <[ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Russia name:triggerAttachmentrussianaTIL new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Russia name:triggerAttachmentrussianaTIL new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Russia name:triggerAttachmentrussianL1 new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Russia name:triggerAttachmentrussianL1 new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Russia name:triggerAttachmentrussianImpArt1 new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Russia name:triggerAttachmentrussianImpArt1 new value:false old value:true]>, CompositeChange <[ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Japan name:triggerAttachmentjapaneseaTAD new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Japan name:triggerAttachmentjapaneseaTAD new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Japan name:triggerAttachmentjapaneseImpD new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Japan name:triggerAttachmentjapaneseImpD new value:false old value:true]>, CompositeChange <[ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Britain name:triggerAttachmenbritishImpAA new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Britain name:triggerAttachmenbritishImpAA new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Britain name:triggerAttachmentbritishaTAAA new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Britain name:triggerAttachmentbritishaTAAA new value:false old value:true]>, CompositeChange <[ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianIH1 new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianIH1 new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianIH2 new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianIH2 new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianIH3 new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianIH3 new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianaTIC new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianaTIC new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianaTAH new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Italy name:triggerAttachmentitalianaTAH new value:false old value:true]>, CompositeChange <[ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Usa name:triggerAttachmentamericanImpD new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Usa name:triggerAttachmentamericanImpD new value:false old value:true, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Usa name:triggerAttachmentamericanaTIP new value:0 old value:1, ChangAttachmentChange attached to:PlayerID named:Usa name:triggerAttachmentamericanaTIP new value:false old value:true]>]> current is:Round: 2
	at games.strategy.engine.history.HistoryWriter.addChange(HistoryWriter.java:151)
	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ClientGame$1.gameDataChanged(ClientGame.java:36)
	at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor262.invoke(Unknown Source)
	at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
	at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeSingle(EndPoint.java:158)
	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeMultiple(EndPoint.java:140)
	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeLocal(EndPoint.java:126)
	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.UnifiedMessenger.lambda$messageReceived$2(UnifiedMessenger.java:279)
	at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(Unknown Source)
	at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

rosw04

Any chance AI will ever be adapted to TWW?

Hepps

@rosw04 while @redrum would be the best person to answer this... I feel I am pretty safe in saying that it is not very likely anytime soon.

Even if the AI could be made to understand consumables and units that construct other units.... I am just not confident it would offer any kind of a challenge verses a human player.

While steps could be taken to create an AI compatible version.... I have to be honest with you when I tell you I have absolutely 0% interest in taking on the kind of work that is necessary to make it happen. Sorry.

rosw04

@hepps That's totally understandable. It looks beautiful and fun and I spent several hours last night reading the instructions and getting familiar with the map/terrain/units, ect.....and I want to play badly but I think it would be difficult PVP (I don't want to wait hours/days btw. turns....need freedom to play hours on end when I'm so inclined but also quit if I get bored or start losing too badly w/out any real chance at coming back....or reload prior save state and try new strategy, ect.).

Someone else had mentioned making a vanilla version....so the AI wouldn't struggle...the map alone w/ terrain features and some of the new units would be a fresh update from the 1941 Global Balanced edition I've been playing over and over. Wonder if that project ever happened...probably not. I have like zero computer skills or I would try it myself. At any rate, thanks for the quick response and thanks for all your (and others) hard work creating what appears to be an amazing game.

Hepps

@rosw04 Yes the suggestion of a Vanilla version has come up repeatedly. I have a hard time going backwards.... so I have really never considered doing it. But who knows.... someone else may decide to make a middle ground game. One can always hope.

redrum

@rosw04 Yeah, I was one of those that mentioned a vanilla/simplified version that would strip some of the features that the AI doesn't handle well out and to provide a kind of stepping stone to the real TWW as most players get overwhelmed with the learning curve. Its a possibility but I doubt it comes to fruition any time soon unless someone steps up to make it happen.

Regarding PvP, PBF/PBEM are great options for large, complex maps like TWW where you can play like a turn a day (or multiple turns per day if you get a couple games going). If you check out the PBF section you'll see some of my recent games (many which are pretty epic including a 21 round game!): https://forums.triplea-game.org/category/45/play-by-forum

On the AI, its possible to update the AI to handle TWW but there are a number of advanced features that the AI doesn't support today and would require significant effort. Probably the largest is the way materials work for building structures as that requires a lot of forward planning which is difficult to program into the AI.

BlackFox

I have some questions.

Fighters seem overall weak compared to naval fighters because fighters only get the +1 on the few purely inland regions. Is there something else they are better for?
In an attack with subs and naval fighters the fighter is automatically taken as a loss after a defending naval fighter rolls hit. Why does casualty choice not apply in that case?

Hepps

@blackfox Hi, as per your questions...

Yes in 2.7.7.2 fighters were at a slight disadvantage to Naval Fighters if you were fighting on any kind of terrain other than purely land. In 2.8.0.5 changes were made to correct for these issues.
I would have to see the situation to be sure... but my guess is because in situations where fighter aircraft cannot target subs, hits will be attributed to only the remaining units in a fight that are allowable as casualties. So I imagine that in the situation you are describing... the only available casualty left to be taken was the fighter. And since it was the only available target... the engine just does it normally as it would when there are no selection options available to the player.

To be honest 2.7.7.2 is pretty much considered obsolete at this point. I would honestly recommend updating your game engine and playing with 2.8.0.5.

Here is the link to the thread... https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/493/total-world-war-december-1941-beta-2-8-0-5/422

The first post gives you directions to what you need to do to get it up and running.

BlackFox

Okay. I switched to the new one.
The sub target was a destroyer and transport. I guess only advanced destroyer allows planes to hit subs.
I see the difference in the manual shows less nav bonus on coast. How are "air attack" and "air defense" used?

Hepps

@blackfox Yes you need "Improved Destroyers" Tech in order for the Destroyers to enable fighter aircraft to target Subs.

All air to air combat is limited to Bombing-intercepting- and escorting.