How to mimic "fog of war" if there is a way?

Schulz

@butterw What would be the best and easy way to represent these estimations? I know nothing about coddings beside creating maps.

Just realizes how overlapping it would be to replace "22" with "Lots (20-49) of infantry"

What about using "20-49", "20 49" or "20.49" representing these "22" units?

I think symbols might be hard to get into. I wouldn't prefer being forced to check constanty which symbol represents which amount of units.

butterw

@schulz
20.49 could be a good code for a range, but to display as a map unit count, anything more than 2 char is too long. In the end, it does depend how common these large stacks are. The alternative would be to display just the median value 35.

Roman numerals would be my suggestion: V (5), X (10).
The next values are L(50), C(100), D(500), M(1000),
with the possibility of XV 15 and XX 20.
Alphabet letters (AB) could be used for in between values, but too many symbols just ends up being confusing.

Schulz

@butterw Would "20.49" aspect be fine if I could keep unit pattern very small like only 3 type land units? If it would be still problem then probably median number becomes the only choice.

I agree too much symbols would be confusing, I'd go with informative estimate numbers.

butterw

@schulz
Single character counts are ideal, 2 character counts may be acceptable, anything longer is troublesome. The more crowded the map, the worse it becomes. A longer textual description can be provided elsewhere.

20-49 does seem a bit wide, you would essentially have no idea what you are up against, it may work better in a fantasy setting than ww2.

Schulz

@butterw Ok. Alternative;

1–5----------1
6-10---------2
11-15--------3
16-20--------4
21-25--------5

Then limiting stacks not having more than 25 total units.

General_Zod

@schulz @butterw I'm not quite sold on this dynamic being a good fit for fog of war. Especially if the fog of war map being a first of its kind. But its an interesting idea though. What would help is another feature request. lol

The ability to name your units/ resources with 2 names. One following stricter rules since it is the code. The second would be just a simple name for players and follows very loose rules, but really would not require the rules at all. Since they are more artistic flare than anything.

example:

Each potential German infantry brought into the game is designated Inf-0001-G up to Inf-9999-G within the xml. But the players see perhaps just German Infantry for all. They could be named indentically or completely differently since this is a artistic description only.

As I ponder the idea further. This might already be feasible. Via production frontiers or Tech Categories. And tooltips of course.

RogerCooper

I suggest that those who like the "Fog of War" check out the game "Wars Across the World". It is an area movement game with fog of war rules.

It does not work very well. The problem is that unlimited stacking and the fog of war do not work together well. Putting most of your units into 1 super-stack is even more effective when your opponent can't see it.

Having a game with realistic fog of war rules, would require other changes to the game. If would require a more realistic combat & logistic system. Something like a generalized version of Columbia Games's block game system.

Schulz

Fog of war isn't realistic either since nations usually have some informations about the enemy strenght before attacking/defending.

Unlimited stacks are also issue which I would prefer either limiting stacks or giving increasing penalties if a nation stack so many units in an area like increasing upkeep etc...

butterw

I don't know if fog of war makes senses gameplay-wise (it isn't a thing in Axis & Allies) but it could maybe be added as an option in Triplea.
I think it may be a way to give a small advantage to the AI and help in creating a more casual game, where calculating battle odds is less critical.

I've been able to do the following simple code modification:

Unit counts for Human players will optionnally be displayed on the map as fog(x) instead of x the unit count.
It's possible to cheat by looking in the territory tab for enemy zones or in tooltips, but it should at least allow to test the feature against the AI.

I haven't had time to playtest the feature myself, but I hope to make a dev build available next week, so that others may give some feedback.

While it makes sense that a Human player would know is own units count, there may also be some benefit to simplifying the unit count display on the map for new players.

EDIT:
The setting can be changed in Engine Setting > Game > Map show unit count.
1: Normal count
2: applies fog to AI players count
3: applies fog to all players
the list could be extended to switch between different fog functions.

! Changes are only applied on redraw (which may only occur at end of a given players turn). To force a redraw (mapPanel .resetMap()), click the current option in View menu > Unit Size.

currently only one Fog Function is implemented:

private String unitCountwithFog(int count) {
  return count>80 ? "C": count>40 ? "L": count>25 ? "B"  
       : count>15 ? "A": count>7  ? "X": count>3  ? "V"
       : count>1  ? "2": String.valueOf(count);
  }

TheDog

@butterw
A quick thought, the unit count for human players could be;

Traffic lighted, eg. Green(low numbers), Amber(medium numbers), Red(high numbers)
Ideally the above bandings would not be fixed, but would be dynamic, based on the largest stack on the current map for the current turn, although this might not be possible. If it was fixed then some maps with low unit count might never get to the higher banding.

Whatever you decide, put me down for giving feedback.