💥 Another World v AI - Official Thread

TheDog

@beelee
Yes Beorn's name is in the original map, I guess he is busy with real life, must remember to credit him.

Im not really into WW2 but its a popular period and this map has some great ideas, it just needed some attention to make it playable v the AI.

I would say its now worth playing

beelee

@thedog

Found him https://github.com/triplea-maps/another_world/pull/11

yea I thought this was a civilization type thing where you build up but don't quite remember

Edit
Wasn't WWII at all from what I remember

Edit 2
I thought you kinda started out like risk and gained territories and technology as you went.

TheDog

@beelee
Yes its Civ like, even more so now, as the starting City is only a City2 not City5.

If I had to put a period on it is 1880s to nukes, so WW2-ish It also has A&A style tech advances, that the AI cannot use.

Yes advancing City & Factory levels gives you unit advances as well.

wc_sumpton

@thedog said in Another World v AI - Official Thread:

Multi round build ships, like Battleship, any suggestions on a fix?

The problem stems from the fact that the AI will not purchase a 0/0/0 Battleship for 15PUs, and you don't want to sell an 8/8/2 unit for 15PUs. So, sell a 'phase1' Battleship at 8/8/2 for 75PUs. The 'phase1' Battleship should create a 'phase2' resource and be removed after endTurn. A 'phase2' Battleship at 8/8/2 should cost 0PUs and 1 'phase2' resource, it should create a 'phase3' resource and be removed. Do this until the AI can purchase the 8/8/2 Battleship for 1 'battleship' resource.

I think something like might work.

Cheers...

TheDog

@wc_sumpton
Thanks for the ideas I will give that a try.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog Oh, wow. I've just started hacking this map recently as well. Nowhere near as comprehensively as this, as I'm new to map hacking.

I fixed some discrepancies between the game notes and the units stats. To try and make it more playable by the AI I got rid of population units. That still leaves the issues with AI unit selection and such which you've been working on so you're way ahead of me but along similar lines. I've been having a bit of fun playing it against the AI with all factions set to War.

I'm actually in a multi-player game of the base map version right now, there are four of us. We basically disabled all the other factions so they are sat there doing nothing as neutral. We're up to turn 17. I've also been posting about the game on the TripleA Reddit sub.

We're looking to start a new game with more players soon. Are you interested in joining us on Discord? I'll see if the others are interested in playing on this version of the map.

On tech advances, the map is very much designed around advancing technology over time. Most air units are near useless without a few tech advances, so it’s baked into the original premise. That’s not yo say the map can’t be repurposed for a different style of game. One option I’ve considered is having game eras, and just granting all players, or just AI players various tech over time using Edit, but it’s a bit of a kludge.

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Just been reading your link https://www.reddit.com/r/TripleA/
interesting read.

Thanks for the offer of joining but I will pass, much prefer to make maps

But if the offer is open to all? I'm hoping others will join you.

This version is a WiP, its playable up to a point. But depending on your take it might be preferred over the original.

Suggestions for improvement are welcome, might not do them, as I have a certain style.

If your players like alternate maps then consider this map, its well tested.
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2467/settlers-fallen-empire-official-thread

Simon Hibbs

@thedog We’ve got probably 6 players lined up for the next game, but I’ve been singing the praises of this map on the TripleA Discord and we might have 8 players there. So I’m doing what I can to increase interest in the map.

I think just as gameable geography it’s a great map. There’s a lot of value in adapting it to different play styles. Also I’m going to go through your changes with a fine toothed comb. I’ve got reasonably familiar with the xml so I’m sure I’ll learn a lot. I saw your post on Settlers, I actually commented on it. Definitely on my to do list to get to grips with.

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
I use
https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/

Once downloaded
Click Plugins
Click Plugins Admin

On the Available tab
Tick ComparePlus
Click Install Button

ComparePlus can compare two xmls side by side, line by line, showing differences.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I’m on a Mac. Im using an open source clone of Notepad++ because I use that for work on Windows, but not sure if it has a diff function. I’ve just been using diff. Old school Unix nerd, but I’m sure a side by side tool would be an upgrade.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I've started a few games and have a few preliminary observations.

Population
I'm not sure what Population as a resource really adds to the game, it's just some extra annoying thing to track. In the original version population units were actually an interesting resource to manage because you have to move them to where you're planning to build infrastructures, and there were tradeoffs between moving them to the capital for cash, or building stuff. It was quite a different thing from just a numerical resource.

As it stands now, I'm not sure they add anything in terms of interesting decisions or tradeoffs to make. Maybe that will come with more play and I'll have an a-ha moment where I can do clever things with population, but at the moment I'm not seeing it. In my own attempt at an AI friendly hack I just got rid of pop as a simplification.

Politics
Disabling politics laves everyone as Uncommitted, with no apparent way to go to war, so you can't actually fight anybody.

Frankly in a game optimised for play against the AI I'd have thought total war from the start would make the most sense. In fact, I don't see the attraction of political alliance categories anyway, it's just a faf. Human players are perfectly capable of making deals, and then backstabbing each other without having to fill out bureaucratic paperwork and wait for red tape to do it, but at least I'd like the option of just going for total war from the start.

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Re Population units, the AI does a very poor job of putting the Population units in the right place to do anything useful, so as this map is v AI, better to have a Population resource.

Politics
Is a structure where you can allow your enemies and so called allies to do limited things, depending on their current label like War, Hostile, Allied, Aligned etc.
canMoveLandUnitsOverOwnedLand
canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand
canLandAirUnitsOnOwnedLand
upkeepCost
alliancesCanChainTogether
isDefaultWarPosition
canTakeOverOwnedTerritory
givesBackOriginalTerritories
canMoveIntoDuringCombatMove
canMoveThroughCanals
rocketsCanFlyOver
But if all you want is all out war then just make all the players at war.

But if playing with war v everyone, it would not be much fun as a single player.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I can see the AI is able to cope with a resource, but I'm not sure what having it at all adds to the game. It might as well go, IMHO.

I get the idea of politics, but at the moment if you disable it there is no game. You can't fight anyone. It's permanent peace. You'd have to use the editor, or is that the idea? It takes ages with this many factions. If so, you could just do that with politics enabled. The flag seems superfluous as it is at the moment.

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Yes the politics flag is superfluous.

To change all the factions to war, just find and replace all the
Uncommitted
to
War

but only for the <relationship block of code, about 180 lines, this is easy with Notedpad++ find and replace within a selection block of text.

	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Archenland" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Flemma" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Gilcrest" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Jandice" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Kallela" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Lancia" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Loch_Island" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Lorenzia" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Maflemia" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Malliton" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="War" player1="Aquella" player2="none" roundValue="1"/>

eg. Hopefully your Notepad like editor can do similar.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I did this for my own, much more primitive attempt at an AI friendly hack. Basically just starting universal war and getting rid of population unit spawning and requirements.

Is it possible for the politics flag, or any flag to trigger total war or change the default status? Currently I have two variants of my hack, one with politics and the other set to total war.

What is it about unit costs that makes it easier for the AI to make reasonable decisions? I can see how stacking limits might help, or is that motivated differently?

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Is it possible for the politics flag, or any flag to trigger total war or change the default status?
Yes, you can write a Trigger that will execute a sequence of political changes.
As an example in 1941 Global Command Decision it has this as an option

But you will need something like

<attachment foreach="$All-Players$" name="triggerAttachment_Notify__USA-Mexico_@All-Players@" attachTo="@All-Players@" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
		<option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachment_Notify__USA-Mexico_@All-Players@"/>	<!-- see notification.properties -->
		<option name="notification" value="Notify_USA-Mexico_@All-Players@"/> 
		<option name="relationshipChange" value="USA:Neutrals:Open-Border:Closed-Border"/>
		<option name="players" value="@All-Players@"/>
		<option name="when" value="before:@All-Players@CombatMove"/>
	</attachment>

Stacking rules just forces the player and the AI from overstacking and doing crazy things like stacking 42 Tactical Bombers in Brazil for no good reason.

Unit cost is complicated and is clever.
Units are grouped into Fodder, Attack, Defence for Land, Sea and Air groupings. Its more complicated but you get the idea.

One unit that costs too much or too little will skew the purchase formula.

For a simple PU cost I use Attack+Defence+Movement, for most of my maps or a variant. You must add in Support variables and other unit bonuses.

RogerCooper

@thedog It doesn't hurt to create max build limits for units to prevent overuse by humans or AI.

TheDog

Latest version v010 ready for download.

Ship PU prices redone
Merchant Ship renamed to Convoy
Help for the AI to buy multi turn ships
Ship hulls have a move of 2, so the AI will buy them, but are stopped from moving, see below
New territory sea used to stop the ship hulls from moving

Link to 1st post that has;
Latest map download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4229/another-world-v-ai-official-thread

wc_sumpton

@thedog

Lines 42160 and 42192 should read '$All-Air-Targetable$' as they say '$All-Air$-Targetable' the map does not load.

Cheers...

TheDog

Latest version v015 ready for download.

Air units are cheaper
.
Ship PU prices redone
Merchant Ship renamed to Convoy
Help for the AI to buy multi turn ships
Ship hulls have a move of 2, so the AI will buy them, but are stopped from moving, see below
New territory sea used to stop the ship hulls from moving

.
Link to 1st post that has;
Latest map download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4229/another-world-v-ai-official-thread