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    Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Maps & Mods
    303 Posts 24 Posters 314.2k Views 19 Watching
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    • LaFayetteL Offline
      LaFayette Admin
      last edited by

      A 2.1 was just released that has the latest fixes for this map.

      https://triplea-game.org/download/

      TheDogT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • TheDogT Offline
        TheDog
        last edited by

        @Frostion
        Playing Undead, I dont appear to be able to place Skeletons with Sevis?

        https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
        https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

        TheDogT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • TheDogT Offline
          TheDog @TheDog
          last edited by

          Turn 25
          I was doing so well, with no errors till this one.
          Noted the AI has not been defending their capitals with too many units, thanks Devs.

          14bbffb2-62b9-48f4-80d2-3d6185639d70-image.png
          2.1.20365: CasualtySelector#selectCasualties:136 - IllegalStateException

          Log Message

          java.lang.IllegalStateException: sortedTargetsToPickFrom must have the same size as targetsToPickFrom list

          TripleA Version

          2.1.20365

          Java Version

          11.0.6

          Operating System

          Windows 10

          Stack Trace

          java.lang.IllegalStateException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: sortedTargetsToPickFrom must have the same size as targetsToPickFrom list
          	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance0(Native Method)
          	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.java:62)
          	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.java:45)
          	at java.base/java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:490)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinTask.getThrowableException(ForkJoinTask.java:600)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinTask.reportException(ForkJoinTask.java:678)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinTask.invoke(ForkJoinTask.java:737)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReduceOps$ReduceOp.evaluateParallel(ReduceOps.java:919)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.evaluate(AbstractPipeline.java:233)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReferencePipeline.collect(ReferencePipeline.java:578)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.ConcurrentBattleCalculator.calculate(ConcurrentBattleCalculator.java:234)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.util.ProOddsCalculator.callBattleCalc(ProOddsCalculator.java:224)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.util.ProOddsCalculator.callBattleCalc(ProOddsCalculator.java:200)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.util.ProOddsCalculator.calculateBattleResults(ProOddsCalculator.java:133)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.util.ProOddsCalculator.calculateBattleResults(ProOddsCalculator.java:116)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.ProNonCombatMoveAi.determineIfMoveTerritoriesCanBeHeld(ProNonCombatMoveAi.java:423)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.ProNonCombatMoveAi.doNonCombatMove(ProNonCombatMoveAi.java:98)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.pro.AbstractProAi.move(AbstractProAi.java:135)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.AbstractAi.start(AbstractAi.java:514)
          	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.waitForPlayerToFinishStep(ServerGame.java:537)
          	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.runStep(ServerGame.java:407)
          	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.startGame(ServerGame.java:297)
          	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInternal(LocalLauncher.java:61)
          	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInternal(LocalLauncher.java:34)
          	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher.lambda$launch$0(AbstractLauncher.java:16)
          	at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:834)
          Caused by: java.lang.IllegalStateException: sortedTargetsToPickFrom must have the same size as targetsToPickFrom list
          	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.casualty.CasualtySelector.selectCasualties(CasualtySelector.java:136)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.Fire.selectCasualties(Fire.java:248)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.Fire.selectCasualties(Fire.java:238)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.Fire$2.execute(Fire.java:117)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.ExecutionStack.execute(ExecutionStack.java:34)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.MustFightBattle.fight(MustFightBattle.java:722)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.BattleCalculator.calculate(BattleCalculator.java:114)
          	at games.strategy.triplea.odds.calculator.ConcurrentBattleCalculator.lambda$calculate$4(ConcurrentBattleCalculator.java:222)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReferencePipeline$3$1.accept(ReferencePipeline.java:195)
          	at java.base/java.util.Spliterators$ArraySpliterator.forEachRemaining(Spliterators.java:948)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.copyInto(AbstractPipeline.java:484)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.wrapAndCopyInto(AbstractPipeline.java:474)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReduceOps$ReduceTask.doLeaf(ReduceOps.java:952)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReduceOps$ReduceTask.doLeaf(ReduceOps.java:926)
          	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractTask.compute(AbstractTask.java:327)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CountedCompleter.exec(CountedCompleter.java:746)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinTask.doExec(ForkJoinTask.java:290)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool$WorkQueue.topLevelExec(ForkJoinPool.java:1020)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool.scan(ForkJoinPool.java:1656)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool.runWorker(ForkJoinPool.java:1594)
          	at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinWorkerThread.run(ForkJoinWorkerThread.java:177)
          
          

          WoW-U25.tsvg
          autosave_round_odd.tsvg
          autosave_round_even.tsvg

          https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
          https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

          T 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • FrostionF Offline
            Frostion Admin
            last edited by Frostion

            Wow! 25 runds! I made the map and have never reached that many rounds 😄 Are you playing both Undead and Trolls? Or only Undead?

            Please give me a save of the last and final round you play so that I may study it. I would like to see how long it takes for you to level up and how the resources are balanced. To me it seems that you got too many special resources? More than you need? Are some in abundance and other s not?

            Does the skeletons still not work? I think you have to build them at a factory where you hero is located. Either when he drops by or when he resurrects there.

            PS: Hope the devs could evaluate this error. Have not seem that before.

            Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • avsharA Offline
              avshar
              last edited by

              Yes the skeletons work fine. You have to have your hero in a factory for him to produce them.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • T Offline
                Trevan @TheDog
                last edited by

                @TheDog I don't see this error reported in github. Did you click the "Report to TripleA" button?

                And I could duplicate the error with that save so it is really nice.

                TheDogT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • T Offline
                  Trevan @TheDog
                  last edited by

                  @TheDog I created a github issue https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/7020

                  I also figured out why it is happening but I don't have a fix. That is in the issue.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • TheDogT Offline
                    TheDog
                    last edited by

                    Re: Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread

                    @Frostion
                    I only play as one race at a time.

                    For resources food is scarce, but later in the game you have too much. Thats is because you are using your other resources to buy other cool stuff. So on balance it works fine as is.

                    For those players who go beyond say 25 turns they will have excess XP, so a suicide (one use) unit/spell with an XP costs might be worth considering.

                    Undead
                    WoW-U25.tsvg

                    Tauren
                    WoW-T27.tsvg

                    Currently playing Trolls only turn 6 so far.
                    WoW-TR-06.tsvg

                    I will try the skeletons later.

                    https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                    https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • TheDogT Offline
                      TheDog @Trevan
                      last edited by

                      @Trevan
                      Yes I tried to report it to Git Hub, it would not let me. Do I need a Git Hub account to post there?

                      https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                      https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • TheDogT Offline
                        TheDog @LaFayette
                        last edited by

                        @LaFayette

                        Thanks, it much more stable.

                        https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                        https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • TheDogT Offline
                          TheDog
                          last edited by

                          @Frostion & @avshar
                          Well that was quicker than I thought.

                          Yes I can create Skeletons but only with Sevis at a Factory.

                          https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                          https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • TheDogT Offline
                            TheDog
                            last edited by

                            @Frostion
                            The Troll hero cannot use the movement speed of 3 from the Balloon in Plaguewood, see turn 10.

                            This might be due to the Totem?

                            WoW-TR-10.tsvg

                            https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                            https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • TheDogT Offline
                              TheDog
                              last edited by

                              Dwarf turn 20
                              This should be reproducible as it crashed again for me.

                              2.1.20365: RemoveUnits#perform:44 - IllegalStateException

                              Log Message

                              Remote method call exception: Not all units present in:Thandol Strait. Trying to remove:[Flying-Machine owned by Dwarves, Troopship owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls] present:[Fish owned by Trolls, Troopship owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Flying-Machine owned by Dwarves, Flying-Machine owned by Dwarves]

                              TripleA Version

                              2.1.20365

                              Java Version

                              11.0.6

                              Operating System

                              Windows 10

                              Stack Trace

                              java.lang.IllegalStateException: Not all units present in:Thandol Strait.  Trying to remove:[Flying-Machine owned by Dwarves, Troopship owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls] present:[Fish owned by Trolls, Troopship owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Footmen owned by Trolls, Flying-Machine owned by Dwarves, Flying-Machine owned by Dwarves]
                              	at games.strategy.engine.data.changefactory.RemoveUnits.perform(RemoveUnits.java:44)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.data.GameData.performChange(GameData.java:433)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame$1.gameDataChanged(ServerGame.java:92)
                              	at jdk.internal.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor42.invoke(Unknown Source)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
                              	at java.base/java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:566)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeSingle(EndPoint.java:136)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.lambda$invokeMultiple$0(EndPoint.java:120)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReferencePipeline$3$1.accept(ReferencePipeline.java:195)
                              	at java.base/java.util.Spliterators$ArraySpliterator.forEachRemaining(Spliterators.java:948)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.copyInto(AbstractPipeline.java:484)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.wrapAndCopyInto(AbstractPipeline.java:474)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReduceOps$ReduceOp.evaluateSequential(ReduceOps.java:913)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.evaluate(AbstractPipeline.java:234)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReferencePipeline.collect(ReferencePipeline.java:578)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeMultiple(EndPoint.java:121)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeLocal(EndPoint.java:111)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.UnifiedMessenger.invoke(UnifiedMessenger.java:152)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.UnifiedInvocationHandler.invoke(UnifiedInvocationHandler.java:48)
                              	at com.sun.proxy.$Proxy16.gameDataChanged(Unknown Source)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.addChange(ServerGame.java:638)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.delegate.DefaultDelegateBridge.addChange(DefaultDelegateBridge.java:91)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.GameDelegateBridge.addChange(GameDelegateBridge.java:62)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.MustFightBattle.remove(MustFightBattle.java:603)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.MustFightBattle.clearWaitingToDieAndDamagedChangesInto(MustFightBattle.java:456)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.MustFightBattle$20.execute(MustFightBattle.java:1777)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.ExecutionStack.execute(ExecutionStack.java:34)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.MustFightBattle.fight(MustFightBattle.java:722)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.delegate.battle.BattleDelegate.fightBattle(BattleDelegate.java:242)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:62)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
                              	at java.base/java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:566)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.delegate.DelegateExecutionManager$1.invoke(DelegateExecutionManager.java:120)
                              	at com.sun.proxy.$Proxy12.fightBattle(Unknown Source)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:62)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
                              	at java.base/java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:566)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeSingle(EndPoint.java:136)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.lambda$invokeMultiple$0(EndPoint.java:120)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReferencePipeline$3$1.accept(ReferencePipeline.java:195)
                              	at java.base/java.util.Spliterators$ArraySpliterator.forEachRemaining(Spliterators.java:948)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.copyInto(AbstractPipeline.java:484)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.wrapAndCopyInto(AbstractPipeline.java:474)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReduceOps$ReduceOp.evaluateSequential(ReduceOps.java:913)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.AbstractPipeline.evaluate(AbstractPipeline.java:234)
                              	at java.base/java.util.stream.ReferencePipeline.collect(ReferencePipeline.java:578)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeMultiple(EndPoint.java:121)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.EndPoint.invokeLocal(EndPoint.java:111)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.unifiedmessenger.UnifiedMessenger.invokeAndWait(UnifiedMessenger.java:96)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.message.UnifiedInvocationHandler.invoke(UnifiedInvocationHandler.java:56)
                              	at com.sun.proxy.$Proxy12.fightBattle(Unknown Source)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:62)
                              	at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
                              	at java.base/java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:566)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.player.DefaultPlayerBridge$GameOverInvocationHandler.invoke(DefaultPlayerBridge.java:152)
                              	at com.sun.proxy.$Proxy12.fightBattle(Unknown Source)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.AbstractAi.battle(AbstractAi.java:609)
                              	at games.strategy.triplea.ai.AbstractAi.start(AbstractAi.java:517)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.waitForPlayerToFinishStep(ServerGame.java:537)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.runStep(ServerGame.java:407)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.ServerGame.startGame(ServerGame.java:297)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInternal(LocalLauncher.java:61)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInternal(LocalLauncher.java:34)
                              	at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher.lambda$launch$0(AbstractLauncher.java:16)
                              	at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:834)
                              
                              

                              WoW-TR-19-end.tsvg
                              autosave_round_even.tsvg
                              autosave_round_odd.tsvg

                              https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                              https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                              T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • T Offline
                                Trevan @TheDog
                                last edited by

                                @TheDog Thanks for the save game. I see a issue in github that appears to be this one. I've copied the save there. https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/7026

                                I can duplicate it with 2.1 but not with the latest master. So this might already be fixed in one of the pre-releases. I'm trying to figure out if it is really fixed.

                                T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • T Offline
                                  Trevan @Trevan
                                  last edited by

                                  I was wrong about it being fixed. There is some randomness to getting the error. I'm able to duplicate it and will be putting more details about it in the github issue.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • TheDogT Offline
                                    TheDog
                                    last edited by

                                    @Frostion
                                    As I have a few games under my belt, here are some observation/suggestions.

                                    Unit buying
                                    Irregulars - the cheapest unit, good for fodder and gaining territory
                                    Footmen - good general purpose
                                    Pike - good anti cavalry
                                    Bow - I dont buy, poor value
                                    Crossbow - I dont buy, poor value
                                    Artillery - poor value, especially when the hero wields so much ranged fire power.

                                    Suggestions
                                    Cavalry - drop their PU, increase/double their Food cost, these are really good blitzers and great at causing mayhem in the enemies territories. The Food change is to use up the food surplus later in the game. Besides you have to feed the mount.
                                    Range 4 spells - too long, reduce to range 2 or 3

                                    Undead
                                    Skeletons - too cheap should be 10 or 15 mana
                                    Fire Thrower - appears poor value v Catapult in the Battle Calc

                                    Troll
                                    Berserkers - poor value also dont give Veteran so not worth it
                                    Dire Troll is too expensive as it specifically needs 5 Allied Irregulars to make it worth while
                                    Fire Canoe looks poor value and only moves 1 v Warship general purpose stats

                                    Do you want more observations/suggestions?

                                    https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                                    https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • avsharA Offline
                                      avshar
                                      last edited by

                                      Some of what TheDog posted is how i feel as well but not all. My observations will differ a bit.

                                      All around i think the game is well balanced. Since there are four races on each side the randomness of the resource placement and helpful items means that IF you are playing only one of those races, the other three are almost guaranteed to have more of something you lack. You just need to figure out what you need to specialize in to be an effective ally.

                                      As to units, i think the current stats are mostly fine. I agree with TheDog that cavalry could be a bit more costly in food. I don't agree with his take on bowmen and crossbowmen. These to me seem to have been intended as basically improved Irregulars. Either gaining a defensive or offensive bonus but still basically Irregulars. The cost for them is not much more in PU's but you have to pay for the bonuses in food. I don't have a problem with that. Especially in the later game when there is such a huge surplus most of the time.

                                      I don't agree with the take on artillery either. Its a nice way to have powerful attacks like a hero when your hero is not present. Or if you do not have enough mana or gold for whatever reason to buy the good supporting units.

                                      I do agree that spells are a bit O.P. with their range, 4 seems excessive. I also agree with the troll Berserkers not being worth it. I have not once bought them. The Fire Canoe i also agree with. Its basically pointless. At that speed its almost purely a defensive weapon.

                                      All in all though like i said this game seems very well thought out. If the technical glitches can be ironed out it may well be a favorite of mine.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • FrostionF Offline
                                        Frostion Admin
                                        last edited by Frostion

                                        @TheDog @avshar Great feedback! I have have had little time to work on this map lately, but a thorough evaluation of your save games and feed back is on my to-do-list (like your agreements and disagreements).

                                        Also, the potential map-error with the undead movement of the balloon.

                                        Any errors, shortcomings, inaccuracies or misinformation in like tooltips or notes are also very welcome 😁

                                        Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • TheDogT Offline
                                          TheDog
                                          last edited by

                                          I have been playing 30 rounds with 2.1.20376 no errors!

                                          Updating to 2.1.20386, for another go

                                          @Frostion
                                          Gnomes to turn 30, so much resources especially food.
                                          WoW-G30.tsvg

                                          A nice surprise when I reached level 8, shhh, dont tell everyone what it is.

                                          This is a great game!

                                          https://forums.triplea-game.org/tags/thedog
                                          https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • FrostionF Offline
                                            Frostion Admin
                                            last edited by Frostion

                                            Here are my thoughts right now on fixes and stuff:

                                            1. Food is in way to high abundance mid/late-game. Therefore food supply on the map should be nerfed.
                                            Wood is for ships and artillery. I think it is a matter of play style if this is used up by the player or not. I would not adjust this resource just yet. Food balance first.
                                            Gold would be the next resource to balance as all players use them for Factories and race specific special units.
                                            Mana and Oil is only for special units, therefore cost adjustments will bring down the abundance. Any race’s special unit price elevation is also a delicate matter, so I would like to postpone this until the Food resource, and after this - also gold, is adjusted.

                                            2. Bowmen and Crossbowmen are weak, but I also see them as cost effective attack and defense units. I think this is a matter of preference and play style. If food availability is nerfed, I think it would be a good idea to cut the Crossbow and Bow Food cost in half, down to 5 Food. Then they will not be in so much competition with the Footmen when it comes to purchase. And in this map, Footmen are “good quality” units, skilled warriors that are suppirior to the rest of the infantry. So I think it would be fitting.

                                            3. Cavalry cost. I agree that it should be raised. Maybe 15 Food, not 10. I guess the animals consume some vegetables, or in the case of the Gnomen mechanical cavalry ... maybe they need vegetable-oil 😉 I will not lower PU cost … but this is purely an AI technical thing, as AI players would highly favor Cavalry only armies.

                                            4. Artillery cost effectiveness. I think it is a matter of play style and preference. Personally I dig artillery, but I don’t know how effective they are compared to spending the PUs on Irregulars and Footmen. My love of artillery might be counterproductive if they are actually not cost effective. But I think one thing is clear; you really do need artillery for taking down factories/fortifications. Right? And if you don’t like artillery, then there is more than enough wood for ships, right?

                                            5. Fire-Thrower effectiveness:

                                            17 Fire-Throwers (510 PUs) & 17 Fire-Shots VS 15 Catapults (510 PUs) & 15 Catapult Shots
                                            Catapult attack win = 72%
                                            Catapult defense win = 0%
                                            Fire-Thrower attack win = 100%
                                            Fire-Thrower defense win =28%

                                            If it was 15 vs 15 then the two machines are actually equal. Catapult best at def, and Fire-Thrower best at attack.
                                            The catapult can destroy factories with bombard damage of 1-7, the Fire thrower only 1-5.

                                            As I see it, the Fire-Thrower is OK and I think more cost effective overall, just not if it is only used to bombard buildings.

                                            6. Dire-Trolls cost 70 PUs at the moment. If they cost 60 PUs, 9 Footmen + 2 Dire-Trolls would be equal in cost and effectiveness the battle calculator to 16 Footmen if attacking. But their big advantage in general is, they they can be brought along in battle as 2-hitpoint units, repairing for free after battle. This in my mind is a HUGE advantage, saving the lives of two units, their HP and strengths. So I am a bit reluctant in nerfing them at the moment, unless there is a huge uproar and demand for this. And if this was so, then ALL 2-hit land unit costs should be reevaluated.

                                            6. Fire-Canoe is not cost effective, and I will lower the cost.

                                            7. Berserkers are not cost effective? I actually disagree a lot. Footmen are 3att/3def 20 Pus. Berserkers are 4 att/2def 20 PUs. Already here many would say that they are superior, as specialized units are always better than flat rate standard units. (One 4att/2def + one 2att/4def will in the long run always win battles over two 3att/3def units. This is because if both parties loose one unit in the first round, the specialized army will be +25% stronger during next battle round, as they choose the weak as casualty) On top of this, the Berserkers have the ability to support 1 standard Footmen unit during attack, making it even more specialized.

                                            8. Skeletons cost. I think the Mana price is fitting, as the Skeletons (and the level skill) also have a great weakness; they can only be build when the Hero is stationary and not really doing anything, or alternatively at the same time as the Hero resurrects at a factory (I think?). But I can see how this unit can be mass spammed at a capital, with the Hero just staying put throughout the game, So I do think that the 5 Mana cost should be supplemented by 5 PUs. Then the unit is like 33% PU cost of Irregulars + Mana. And they can only be created during special conditions. Does it sound reasonable?

                                            9. Spells move 4 only because this is the only way I have been able to make it possible for Heroes to bring them along, if they attack move (via air unit) 4 territories. For technical reasons, spells are Air units, therefore they cannot “board” an air unit mount like balloon or gryphon. At the same time, it would be lame if the Hero could not have his/her spells when flying into attack, right? I would actually prefer spells on their own only had 1 move range, but I just don’t have a solution at the moment that would “fit the whole package” so to speak. If any one learns this map + has the technical skills to come up with a new way to handle spells, I am all ears! 😛

                                            10.“Do you want more observations/suggestions?”
                                            Yes, keep it coming!

                                            Based on this, I think the following changes would be fitting the next version of this map v0.1.3:
                                            • Added more explanation during into, on how to place origin skills.
                                            • The amount of Food availability on the map has been reduced slightly. Gold will be evaluated next, followed by the other resourses.
                                            • Bowmen and Crossbowmen now cost 5 Food, not 10 Food.
                                            • Cavalry now cost 15 Food, not 10 Food.
                                            • Fire-Canoe now cost 20 PUs, not 25 PUs.
                                            • Skeletons now also cost 5 PUs, besides 5 Mana.
                                            Also, I think about these changes:
                                            • Troop-Transport now cost 26 PUs, not 25.
                                            • Submarine now cost 28 PUs, not 30.
                                            • Economic victory at 400 PUs.
                                            • Normal victory at 6 Capitals.
                                            • The Gnomen Spider-Tank can now traverse mountains and rivers. (This would make it a cool very special unit :-P)
                                            • Undead Hero Sevis tooltip spelling error fix (“place by Sevisat at factory”)

                                            I will first have the time to work on changes in like 5-7 days from now, so there is plenty of time to find new issues, do further testing and discus these or other changes. I appreciate all the help and testing, I already see this map imporving! 😄

                                            Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

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