Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread

Frostion

@TheDog I actually thought Riflemen was scrapped from the game, LOL. I think the Dwarves already have their 5 special units, like all other races. So maybe Riflemen will be removed, unless I figure out how they could fit in.

In regards to unit cost of all the special units: You can/must ONLY compare their PUs cost. Any cost effectiveness should ONLY take the PU cost in mind. When it comes to special units, then their Mana, Oil and Gold cost is ONLY there to determine how high/low unit availability is, how many of this unit should the player be allowed to spawn thought out the game.

All the special units should be much better than standard units when it comes to cost/effectiveness, so that the player would buy the units whenever possible. The only thing holding mass production back should be the available Mana, Oil and Gold (gold being the only resource also used to buy something else (factories)).

This means that units costing 30 PUs + 50 Mana would/should most likely result in the player buying twice the amount throughout a game, compared to if the unit cost 30 PUs + 100 Mana.

Only taking PUs in mind and the effectiveness of units, I am not really sure how much comparisons and price balancing I have done by now. I think I did price balancing in the beginning of the map making process, but at some point I began tweaking every race's prices individually, and I have quite frankly not recently given special unit prices that much priority and thought. But I probably will by the next update.

It is not at all a simple thing to set PU prices on 2HP units, positive and negative support units, and on the top that, support units only giving support to certain units. No easy task

TheDog

@Frostion
Thanks for explaining how PU relates to other resources.

So to Origins.

The above table attempts to show how important the Origins are.

They are split into two groups, Frequency used per turn;
High - used every turn
Situational

So to rebalance the Origins the
1 XP could be removed from the High Origins or
Reduce all the Resource bonus say by 1, so PU would go down from 4 to 3PU.

Also it would be good if the Origins list displayed could reflect the two major groups just by changing the order they are displayed.

The High Frequency Origin Resources should be displayed in the order that they appear as in the Resource status row at the bottom of the main screen, perhaps in the order of the table?

TheDog

Is it possible to hard code the AI to have the first four Origins?

Tool Tips Change all Fiendly :angry_face_with_horns: to Friendly

Tool Tips Origin Seafarer should also say, you must own the Territory Port/Harbourer to be able to place the Workboat.

TheDog

@Frostion
Each Item (Treasure) has an associated PU value, is this its relative worth?

What does the AI do with this PU? (Nothing or is it used for placing, capturing etc)

Is it possible, however unlikely, that all the 25PU items could be placed very near each other?

Frostion

@TheDog said in Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread:

@Frostion
Each Item (Treasure) has an associated PU value, is this its relative worth?

What does the AI do with this PU? (Nothing or is it used for placing, capturing etc)

Is it possible, however unlikely, that all the 25PU items could be placed very near each other?

The PU values are only used by the AI to figure out what to capture, what is worth alot And what is worth a little less. And it seems to work. At least it seems like the AI is pretty focused on rushing towards the closest Port. Especially Tauren, Orcs and Unread clearly does this.

I have not noticed if the AI places totally random or if the PU value affects the pattern of placements. If it does then at least all items and resource generators should have the exact same PU value.

TheDog

@Frostion
Thanks for the explanation.

Items (Treasure)
Here are a few suggestions that I value differently.
Long-Range-Artillery 25PU Gives All Friendly Shots +1 Movement
Horn-of-Cenarius 15PU Gives 5 Friendly Ranged Units +3 Targeted Power

The replacement Ranged Weapons PU are too cheap, they have a Combat and XP component and should cost more than 25PU, but I think you have imposed a 25PU limit?
As an example The Crystal Ball is 25PU and is +5XP
The Magic Bow is 25PU and is +10XP and has a Target Power: 7

So Ranged Weapons XP should be reduced. To rebalance these items they should generate a lot less XP.
Suggest taking the current PU / 5 = new XP value.
This on average would generate 1/2 of the current XP.

TheDog

@Frostion

Air Power
The table below attempts to compare air power.

Consider changing to the following;
Hippogryph 25PU and 35Mana as its PU appears too cheap and its a transport 25 for being a flyer + 5 for each TC = 35mana

Airship/Zeppelin as they are transport 25oil for being a flyer + 5 for each TC = 50oil

Wind-Hexer is difficult to balance, 40PU (because of the 4Atk) and 25mana to match the other non-transport flyers.

The Oil/mana cost as you have said is more subjective depending on the races forces and how many of that type you want.

For now I have done reporting on "things" so I will await the next version.

TheDog

@Frostion
I cant help myself thinking more about Fortifications/Factories they are still too easy to take, perhaps in addition to their archers they should provide support to allied units, as they garrison it.
Eg.
Guard-Tower: Support on Defence: to 1 Allied Unit,
Capital: to 5 Allied Units
or similar.

Also noticed this
Line 15736 I think should say <option name="players" value="$AllPlayers$"/>
as its missing
There are many missing $AllPlayers$ lines, are they required?

ff03k64

Just wondering if there is anything downloadable for this yet. Thanks!

Panther

@ff03k64 Find it ingame:

ff03k64

Totally missed that, thanks!

ff03k64

A couple of thoughts. Put the notifications in your game notes so that users can read them before we start a game.

You have a notification about setting pause duration to 0. If I am reading that correctly, it is in the "Engine Preferences" on the "AI" tab?

Couple of questions.
Do i want to read this whole thread before playing the game?

Do we still need to use the pre release version like it says? i am guessing that that particular note was from pre triplea 2.0?

TheDog

@ff03k64

No dont read the whole thread, enjoy the game first. If you are moved to post, read from post 230, Frostions update near the top of page 12, Im sure he would like your opinion.

Yes download the latest test version 2 from here.
[https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases](link url)

You probably want the Windows 64 bit version, near the bottom of the latest release, click on it to download it.

ff03k64

I am on version 0.1.4, TripleA version 2.1.2076

My comments/questions so far. I am on turn 10.

I think that there is some useful information that could go in the game notes, maybe some of it can go in an appendix at the end. Some as in my previous comment. But at least one new as well.
The starting 'perks', for lack of better word, would be nice to see them all at once to compare them, instead of just tooltips.
It seems like all 'resource elements' and 'creeps' are randomly located? Could mention that in the notes.
hero progression would be nice to have in the notes, unless it is randomized.

Jagged reef has a horde stronghold, which creates and maintains a footman. It seems that if that 'resource element' (i think that is what they are called in the notes) is captured by the alliance, what happens to the footman? it seems like they stay, but my brain makes me think they should go away.

Unless i am not reading the map right, i can't tell how many hp a hero has.
And how does a hero regenerate hp normally? only in an outpost, or can they regenerate slower outside outposts?

Can you upgrade the 'creep' factories that you capture?

How does xp collecting work? It obviously is collected by the hero when they are in fight. It looks like some can be collected in other fights too? It seems like if the hero isn't involved in a fight, there shouldn't be any xp generated.

ff03k64

The item 'Rapid-Foot-Standard' didn't seem to work. When i clicked the button to see units with movement left, it would go to the footmen, but they couldn't move anymore.

The Gnome capital seemed to go over to nature right at the start. Specifically, 'Trogg-Savages' were there at the start of the game.

Zjelcop

@Frostion

is it okay if i post some screenshots of this work of art on the Facebookpage or would you prefer to have it finished and tested first?

Cheers Zjelco

Frostion

@Zjelcop Go ahead and post. Just remember to state that it is an unfinished "work in progress" map. I have intentions og getting back to work and development on this map, but right now it seems that my RL takes up too much time. I hope to find time in the future I see that I got some feedback posts to read at some point!

gr8gamerguy

I've played a few games and here are a few problems to address:

Undead-Abomination unit is 2HP and works, but no unit to display for Abomination with 1 hit damage. at start of next Undead turn, it heals like normal and re-displays. All other 2HP units seem to work fine.
Hero Target Fire appears to offer too many attacks. my 8th level Marryk has the Shooter skill, Mystical Scepter, and Amulet of Accuracy. It looks like he made 6 attacks rolling for 7/10. the 7/10 seems right, and it seems like items that give Hero targeted power add to both the #/10 and the number of rolls, but it seems like all the heroes have too many target attack rolls.
the order of attack and removal of casualties seems arbitrary. It seems to go Guns first, then Magic, then Missile, then First Strike, then regular attacks. with so many different items and creature attacks, each of them seems to over-complicate the sequence and hard to follow. Also, some seem to have the AI eliminate casualties while others allow user to select casualties. It would be good to know which is which.
Submarines don't offer submersion consistently. 1 out of 5 sea battles did I get the option to submerge after 1st round of combat. It seems all sea units except transport can detect subs.
Gnome Manabots are too expensive at 15PU and 50Mana. should either be 15PU and 25Mana or they should provide some benefit like generate 1PU per turn.
it would be nice to have some way to see Portals on the mini-map, like have the colored icon be gold so it stands out. Same suggestion for the four creature buildings that can be captured and produce units. Same suggestion for any building that can produce units so they are easier to find.
Damaged buildings are very expensive to repair at 25PU per hit. Maybe 15PU; 1/2 cost of building a new one.
Gnomeregan starts out under Trogg control at full health, which gives the Troggs a huge advantage with 5 wall-archer attacks. Then the captured building has 5 hits needing to be repaired. Either disable wall-archer's for creatures or have Gnomeregan be fully functional once captured. Most games it ends up the Horde capture it because Humans and Dwarves spend too much energy fighting off a joint Troll and Undead assault to free Gnomeregan so the Gnomes can help defend.
defeating other player units should reward XP just like neutral creatures. with just neutral creatures awarding XP after death, the board runs out of fast XP bumps too soon.
I had a huge Orc Horde attack a heavily defended Gadgetzan and after the battle Gadgetzan had the same damage (1) it had before the start of the battle. Not sure why it wasn't damaged fully like every other building I capture. The little reward message of Thrall earning +100 veteran points after the battle was very cool; first time I saw that.

I'll add more as I come across them. I love what you've created and it is truly a unique TripleA experience. The unit graphics were a bit confusing at first, but quickly learned to identify them and love each of the unique units; much like Elemental Forces. The magic items mechanic is brilliant and really makes it a fun play every time. At first I thought each unit was too expensive as it was hard to amass a large force, but now it feels just right. The Heroes are the real main force and the regular troops just supplement; but a decent force of 5-8 troops can be a problem for a hero. overall, good balance. It seems in late game, especially with all the sea territories captured, the PUs earned each turn are quickly outstripped by other resources, so I'm always running out of PU before other resources. But I'm still thinking about that. I think it's pretty good balance overall. Love the game!

gr8gamerguy

Okay, I didn't realize at first each of the heroes have a different number of targeted range attacks, so #2 above makes sense now. That little gnome Marryk can be deadly if he gets some target power boosts!

Regarding #1, the error message is as follows:

gr8gamerguy

Another time I transported a unit on the recovered balloon. after I lost the battle, the game crashed: