Update for Domination 1914 No Man's Land



  • Me and some other Dom 1914 players demand update for this map. It would be really great if possible. I think better to write these demans to here thus we will be able to achieve consequence.

    These are my demands for the update

    -Players should be allowed to pick and buy any tech whatever they want. Every tech may have different costs. (optional like ll/dice)
    -Removing Serbian techs
    -Fixing connection bugs
    -Fixing the propaganda bug
    -German industry gives free 3 stormtruppen instead of 3 infantry
    -Adding new techs
    -Removing Merchant Marine
    -Decreasing Zeppelin cost +1 attack and -2 defense
    -Fixing Turkish straits bug (Constantinople should be canal not dardanelles)
    -Making Yakuts original Russian territory and Mecca original Turkish territory.
    -Industry tech allows to place +2 more units instead of +3
    -Replacing British cavalry in Alberta with colonial
    -Adding sea connection between sz 7-sz 8
    -Removing sz 151 connections
    -Removing Guadalahara infantry.
    -Every nations start with AAgun in their capitals
    -Germany starts with sub in sz 12
    -Decreasing total PUs of Japan
    -Adding sea mines for every nations
    -Making Baluchistan 2, Cairo 3
    -Relocation the British navy to sz 24 from sz 17. (Because Britain can still wipe out the German navy in sz 16 in the first round despite the sub bonus)
    -Fixing the colour bug in Solomon Islands
    -Germany starts with West Prussian factory.
    West Prussian's value is 2, Mecklenburg's 4, East Prussia's 4, Saxony's 6. Bavaria's 4, Belgium's 2, Paris 6, Brittany's 2, Volgograd 3, Omsk 3
    -Slighly decreasing Pus of some neutral territories.
    -Making Bulgaria German territory. (It would be very very great)
    -Making factories and aaguns destroyable when captured.
    -Making factory cost is 15 (or 18).
    -Making low valued neutral territories more defenseless.
    -Gases can attack enemy without ground unit supports.
    -Adding German transport to lake tanganyika.
    -Dividing Belarus into two separate territory.
    -Fixing th graphic bugs of Tonga and Fiji.
    -Replacing some of the current flags, country colours, unit images with better ones. (I have better flags, unit images)
    -Slighly decreasing the power of US in terms of Pus



  • Regarding Zeppelins: There really isn't any real room to lower the cost of zeppelins without zeppelin spam becoming very common due to cost effectiveness because SBR is actually a very powerful ability that demands a rather high unit cost regardless of unit stats. Suppose we make the zepps a 0/0 for $14, then you've only made the problem worse because then it'll be a statistically even money trade to bomb territories that are worth only $2.The fundamental math for SBR makes it very expensive.

    Regarding sz151: It's mostly the fact that it connects with Sakhe and it's so close to the US. Fixing that in a not clumsy manner would require just redrawing the region.

    Regarding money changes: I'm concerned about Germany building a factory in Rhine and / or Champagne and punish the crippled French production. Honestly, until France gets industry, it can get tricky to actually spend all of its money. On round 1, France has 20 production and thus can't even spend all its money on infantry.

    Things you didn't bring up that would be good: Removing Papua infantry (allows germany to buy navy in New Guinea round 1). Moving Picardy art to Paris (makes sz25 optional).


  • Moderators

    Moved to Maps & Mods.


  • Moderators

    @schulz said in Update for Domination 1914 No Man's Land:

    -Gases can attack enemy without ground unit supports.

    This would need the implementation of some feature request for supporting shell-like suicide units. Currently you can obtain this by having the suicide unit being not an infrastructure, but, if you do that, either they will (all) suicide on defence too or you will be able to take them as casualties in defence.



  • @erik542 said in Update for Domination 1914 No Man's Land:

    Regarding Zeppelins: There really isn't any real room to lower the cost of zeppelins without zeppelin spam becoming very common due to cost effectiveness because SBR is actually a very powerful ability that demands a rather high unit cost regardless of unit stats. Suppose we make the zepps a 0/0 for $14, then you've only made the problem worse because then it'll be a statistically even money trade to bomb territories that are worth only $2.The fundamental math for SBR makes it very expensive.

    Regarding sz151: It's mostly the fact that it connects with Sakhe and it's so close to the US. Fixing that in a not clumsy manner would require just redrawing the region.

    Regarding money changes: I'm concerned about Germany building a factory in Rhine and / or Champagne and punish the crippled French production. Honestly, until France gets industry, it can get tricky to actually spend all of its money. On round 1, France has 20 production and thus can't even spend all its money on infantry.

    Things you didn't bring up that would be good: Removing Papua infantry (allows germany to buy navy in New Guinea round 1). Moving Picardy art to Paris (makes sz25 optional).

    I have been playing this map when released and believe me nobody ever tried mass zeppelins against me. I have never limited zeppelins even I allow Americans bombings on commies. I have a trouble to understand why you consider mass zeppelins overpowered. If they are overpowered then both sides can already purchase them.

    Zeppelin is just inferior version of Bomber in ww2 maps. In some maps their cost is 15 and people rarely buy them though they have good attack and huge movement power while zeppelins have only 1 attack power and they are much slower and more expensive. In v3 their cost is 12 with 4 attack and 6 movement power just imagine how terrible and overpriced are zeppelins. My suggestion for zeppeling: 14 Cost, 2 At, 1 Def, 5 Mov.

    Also we can add radar tech and it preventy any bombing attemp.

    SZ 151-Sakhe connection absolutely does not make sense.

    I consider removing papua inf too but making German Guinea 3 could be great.



  • @cernel said in Update for Domination 1914 No Man's Land:

    @schulz said in Update for Domination 1914 No Man's Land:

    -Gases can attack enemy without ground unit supports.

    This would need the implementation of some feature request for supporting shell-like suicide units. Currently you can obtain this by having the suicide unit being not an infrastructure, but, if you do that, either they will (all) suicide on defence too or you will be able to take them as casualties in defence.

    I would be not concerned the new status of gases. I have done it before and liked it. Gases require land support in this map. It doesn't make sense for me.

    BTW is it possible a update for this map like you had done it for WaW otherwise this topic becomes meaningless.



  • In sum up better to collect the certain things which almost everyone is agree. I will continue to add new certain decided requests.

    -Fixing connection,propaganda,Turkish straits, colour-graphic bugs and game notes
    -Better flags/colours/unit images
    -Removing merchant marine (or it gives only +1 movement bonus)
    -Industry gives +2 placement bonus
    -Removing sz 151 connections with other sea zones
    -Adding German sub in sz 12.
    -Decreasing total amount of PUs of Japan


    And I have a bit more unortodox requests, I am not as insist as the other requests. But they are at least conceivable.

    • Making Serbia-Montenegro Russian and Greece French= That would give more strategic options in tihe Balkans for both sides since Bulgaria also becomes German territory (with factory) starting set up would be exactly the same with great war. Also removing Serbia would increase the game speed.

    -Removing Arabia and making it Britis properly (Or Making Arabia neutral properly)= Arabia falls in round 3 making it British would speed up the game (or neutral)


  • Moderators Admin

    A long time ago I had started working on a variation to Domination to solve some of the issues (as I perceived them) of the map.

    I am willing to offer up the map to the community but I have absolutely no interest in pursuing it any further myself for the time being.

    the design centered on several things....

    • Enlarging Europe to allow for better territory sizes relative to units.
    • Adding a number of new territories and SZ to make the experience more dynamic and bring greater movement parity across the map.
    • Creating a whole new system for bringing neutrals into the game rather than just having an "agricultural" free for all across the globe.
    • Creating a whole new system for the Russian Revolution to eliminate the nonsensical system currently used.
    • Creating "Colonial" production area's where troops can be mustered but where spamming naval in far flung economically backwards regions is impossible without establishing a factory.
    • Creating trade routes to speed up NCM for navy.
    • Complete re-envisioning of the PU distribution to eliminate the absurdly high values across the map especially for neutral territories.
    • Large number of impassable territories to create more bottle-necks and limit troop movements across vast inhospitable terrains.

    Here is a view of the European changes...

    0_1538659139777_AOA EOE new Europe png.png

    Here is a view of the African changes...

    0_1538660701017_Africa example.png

    You will note that the beige coloured territories are 0 PU and the grey coloured territories are impassable.

    The Shovel & Pick-axe symbols indicate where Colonial Recruitment centers allow the controlling power to recruit new Colonial Infantry units.


  • Admin

    @schulz Anything is possible. Generally you need to do the following things in order to update a map you didn't originally create:

    1. Get agreement across active players on updates that should be made
    2. Try to contact the original map creator to ask about updating it and either get their blessing or if they don't respond in a week or 2 then it can be considered abandoned
    3. Find someone to actually make the updates to the map

    Side note: Anything that is an actual bug like missing connections, etc can be fixed without step 1 & 2.



  • some playgroups enact some limits on gas, like a max of 18 at a time per nation. Just wanted to mention that there is some engine support for restrictions like that, there's a few similar options to that, and iirc one that's just that directly (max number of a unit that a player can have). I forget the exact names of them though, you'd have to check the pact of steel 2 file for that info.



  • I will add some ideas to this discussion. Maybe some will prove useful.

    Serbian tech: my thought is that some techs should be nerfed for Serbia. So, propaganda should produce 1 infantry a turn, and victory bonds should produce 1 die roll (not 2) of added income per turn. Serbian tech tokens should cost 2 PUs each. That way tech becomes a reasonable investment for Serbia, without it getting a ridiculous boost to its power via victory bonds and propaganda.

    I would also remove 1 infantry from Peru, and swap out the German cruiser in sz 106 for a battlecruiser. This would allow Germany to neutral farm South America.

    I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their technologies. Randomized techs help prevent strategies and situations from becoming too predictable. To reduce random variation, maybe have 6 categories of techs with 3 techs per category.

    I'll also propose an alternative to merchant marine tech: improved bombardment. With improved bombardment, each land unit you unload causes two of your battleships or battlecruisers to become eligible for bombardment.



  • @hepps

    Look very good to me. But I think better to keep original ones as much as possible because every big changes requires new rebalances. If balance is still fine than better to add it to repository as a new map (for respecting the original creator)



  • @kurtgodel7

    Agree. Serbian propaganda and victoy bonds are overpowered. Nerfing them is great idea, I can edit Serbian propaganda tech and it can provide +1 inf for every turn instead of +3 but I don't know how do I reduce the cost of Serbian tech tokens and Serbian victory bond's dices.

    What about removing Serbian completely? Serbia-Montenegro can become part of Russia and Greece is French (or British).

    Allowing Germany farming South America definitely would require new balance. Germany will be able to take almost half of South America and unlike Mexico, Entente would never be able to take these lands.

    Incresing tech categories is great.

    There is also cruiser bombardment tech.



  • @redrum

    I don't know Imbaked's mail address and I haven't seen him on lobby for years.


  • Moderators Admin


  • Moderators Admin

    @schulz All good. I was simply offering it up to you as you had asked.


  • Moderators Admin

    Here is what I did with the international zones in china. Just for posterity sake.

    0_1539029820953_International China zones.png



  • Do you have any plan to add it to the map repository?


  • Moderators

    @schulz He said:

    I am willing to offer up the map to the community but I have absolutely no interest in pursuing it any further myself for the time being.

    That can be made by just uploading it to a public GitHub repository at whatever it is its current state. Of course, it is also possible to define it as public domain while doing so.



  • Imbaked hasn't responded my mail yet. I've talked with almost all dom 1914 players and their common requests are clear.