Map Making Q&A
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@beelee said in Map Making Q&A:
The panel doesn't work but it'll still show up at end of turn game report ?
Correct.
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Oh maybe if you've updated your local map package it will look there for the objectives rather than on the bots. Not 100% sure now.
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yea Idk. Not perfect but people can at least play it on the lobby.
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Actually, it seems that it stops you from loading a save game, because I have changed the name of the game from the previous version. If it was an upgrade to the previous version with the same name, it would be possible.
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oh yea different name that's not already available won't work.
bummer
Yea until Dan gets back, I don't think anybody updates them, maybe roiex can idk
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@beelee said in Map Making Q&A:
oh yea different name that's not already available won't work.
Would this list be in the triplea-game repository? Not sure where else it would be.
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@simon33 yea your map should be listed there but until somebody updates the bots it won't work in the lobby.
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@beelee said in Map Making Q&A:
@simon33 yea your map should be listed there but until somebody updates the bots it won't work in the lobby.
The obvious question then is where in the repo? You aren't sure?
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@simon33 not quite sure what you're asking but here is the maps list
https://github.com/triplea-maps
Yours should be in there
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That's the list of packages . Aren't you saying that there is a list of map names somewhere? Or is it generated by cycling the triple-maps repos?
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@simon33 yea idk. That and the yaml are the only map lists I know of.
Edit
Here's a couple links with some bot infohttps://github.com/triplea-game/infrastructure
https://github.com/triplea-game/infrastructure/tree/master/ansible
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@simon33 There is some confusion is caused by the loose use of terminology, especially the term "map".
Here are the definitions I use
Mod A folder either on GitHub or your local computer that contains the files necessary to run specific scenarios. The in-game downloader uses the file https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/blob/master/triplea_maps.yaml to track the mods. Mods can also be downloaded from the site https://triplea-game.org/maps-list/maps/ or installed directly in your C:\Users<username>\triplea\downloadedMaps folder.
Map The set of files used to create the game board used in TripleA. In earlier versions of TripleA a mod could reference a map in separate folder, but that is no longer possible. There is a list at https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Category:TripleA_Maps. Some popular maps are used by multiple mods.
Scenario A specific game that can be played. A mod can have one or more scenarios. Scenarios are defined in the file map.yml in the mod. There is a list at https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Category:TripleA_Scenarios
xml The file that defines the non-map information for a scenario. A mod may have multiple xml files. If an xml file is not listed in map.yml, it will not be visible to TripleA.
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@simon33 said in Map Making Q&A:
That's the list of packages . Aren't you saying that there is a list of map names somewhere? Or is it generated by cycling the triple-maps repos?
Those "packages" are the maps.
Their names are given here:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/blob/master/triplea_maps.yamlI don't know what you mean by "cycling the triple-maps repos".
For example, the name of the map given by the map-folder named as
the_pact_of_steelis "The Pact of Steel".Map-folders' names are supposed to be derived from maps' names this way:
When your map name is converted to all lower case, and spaces replaced with underscore, it must match the repository name.
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@rogercooper said in Map Making Q&A:
Mod A folder either on GitHub or your local computer that contains the files necessary to run specific scenarios. The in-game downloader uses the file https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/blob/master/triplea_maps.yaml to track the mods. Mods can also be downloaded from the site https://triplea-game.org/maps-list/maps/ or installed directly in your C:\Users<username>\triplea\downloadedMaps folder.
Map The set of files used to create the game board used in TripleA. In earlier versions of TripleA a mod could reference a map in separate folder, but that is no longer possible. There is a list at https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Category:TripleA_Maps. Some popular maps are used by multiple mods.
I find your definitions of mods and maps unclear.
I think "mod" is just short for "modified scenario (or game)". For example, "World At War" is the original scenario of the same-named map, and "WAW 1940" is a mod of it, so "World At War" is a scenario but not a mod and "WAW 1940" is a scenario and a mod, as I see it. You could thus say that that map features two scenarios: the main scenario and a mod of it.
Other cases are less clear. For example, in the V3 map, either 1942 could be seen as a mod of 1941 or both 1941 and 1942 could be seen as equal-standing main scenarios.
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@cernel I don't think that you can make a distinction between main and modified scenarios in a consistent way. I view world_war_ii_v3 as a mod with 2 scenarios World War II v3 1941 and World War II v3 1942
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This is an interesting question about the names, or what we all mean when using them. My language has changed over time
For me scenario always meant specifically the 1941 or 1942 scenario on the v3 game board, since prior to that two scenarios for one game wasn't really a thing. But then afterwards I guess just a general way to refer to two distinct games meant to be played using the same tripleA map board with all the same files, and not requiring a separate download.
I think I'm like simon33 where I tend to look at that as a map package, so like everything I'm going to get when I click that downloaded 'map.' Or basically, if I have to download something other than a new game xml to get whatever thing to fire up, I'd have considered that pretty much a new map, since it has to live in its own separate downloaded maps folder now. But then I also think of 'maps' as the baselines the tile folders specifically like how roger meant it.
Also, since my idea of what mod meant has changed over time, I used to see v3 as a map mod (modification) of the OOB AA50 map rather than a direct port. This was because it doesn't use an exact board trace, but something merely analogous for that world projection which had the same connections, but different contours. Not invented from whole cloth clearly, but it has a different look than the OOB. I can take a scan of Classic or Revised and use it in tripleA 1:1 there since that was Logan's, but for v3 and G40 not so much, since we changed the contours after getting jammed up about it when AA50 first dropped. Bung's also uses some different countours, like for the handling for Africa in G40 and on the Europe side of the board pretty similar overall when they're put together though, just with some stretch at the bottom. Or I guess if it had used all different unit graphics or a different map.properties, things of that sort I might also have considered that a Mod of whatever standard thing. Example might have been a game that used the same baseline, but with a new relief or like changing the faction colors units tints around (mainly cosmetic) in those folders, all the way to something more like changing phase orders or a low luck default or no tech default, things that are now I think either considered game options or kinda understood to be more standard and straightforward mods. Stuff that is more common or which has since been formalized over time. It's hard to know the initial language used for some stuff though, since it may never have been all that consistent at the outset. Especially conflating map with game, which even the tripleA file structure sorta suggests.
Like it doesn't call them mods or scenarios, it just calls them maps and games. When I launch the tools if it looks for a map it means the baseline map, but then other times the specific tile folders or the map.props all those txt files within the map folder, so to me that's 'the map' as such, like a catch-all. Since the folder called games now lives inside a sub folder of the map folder for basically every map, I think of whatever is in that game folder as a 'game' of that map, where I guess game is synonymous with scenario now. And if it lists in the 'games' lists under that same map name, it's a game scenario of that map. Even if it's using some pre existing map from elsewhere, like if it has to have it's own directory to fire up that's a new map to my way of thinking.
In the past, since the catalogue of available maps wasn't as large, there were probably more mods for a given map, and over time the standard mods might become more popular or familiar than the original map, to the point where they just sorta get folded into each other. Or even where stuff became a standard launch option, more like a game setting than a different game per se. Like I used to think of Revised Low Luck or Revised LHTR as mods of Revised, but now they're essentially game settings of the standard. For convenience I think many standard options that don't actually require a new map tend to merge over time into a single download. Kinda can be confusing though. Especially from the archival standpoint, or like trying to list stuff out when the lists get longer. Over time the need for a way to refer to things more specifically becomes more pronounced, but it's sorta wild west still in some ways. I still just think of them all as games
For example world war II global has 9 games in the game folder there, so there are 9 games for that map. I don't know that I would refer to any of them as scenarios, or mods per se, or at least not in the same sense that AA50 has two standard scenarios. Or that I would consider Global Second Edition as the main Mod of that map, although I think that is basically the default game now. Or to stretch further, like I wouldn't really consider Global a mod or scenario of the separate Europe and Pacific 1940 maps, even though technically it is. It's still it's own singular map, since that's the download, or the map package I guess.
The more go back and forth on it though, the harder it is to pin down, since on the one hand there's the practical stuff like how the file directories are set up currently in the tripleA folders, but then also how things get referred to elsewhere might use other conventions. Sometimes when trying to build out the map stuff specifically for the baseline, I have invented little terms for myself where I'll say stuff like tiles as short for meaning polygons (like all sea zones or territories), but then we also got the tile breaker where it means more like how the screen is stitching tiles together to form an image on the screen, or how most displays actually use 2 maps to provide the visual. We have a baseline map and a map relief now, whereas in the very early days everything was just the baseline and had to be drawn on. Similarly the map.properties used to be hardwired, now they're a separate txt file where user can modify it locally to do many things. Some of the stuff in map props I think could have been considered a map mod early on, because it can change the display quite a bit, like if it were intended to supersede the defaults. Like the baseline, the map.props and centers/polys is sorta core to the map, since a change there will effect all the games associated with that map.
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@cernel said in Map Making Q&A:
For example, the name of the map given by the map-folder named as the_pact_of_steel is "The Pact of Steel".
Ok, maybe that package only has one xml. What I am mostly concerned with is world_war_ii_global. This has over half a dozen xmls. e.g. Original, second edition, Balanced Mod etc.
So in this scenario I have added/renamed an xml's map name but the bots do not have it. Do the bots automatically update their maps or does it need to be pushed?
Is it clear what I am trying to do?
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yea new map or xml in this case can only be added to the bots by someone who has the access and knows how to do it.
Currently, there isn't anyone around to do that
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@rogercooper said in Map Making Q&A:
@cernel I don't think that you can make a distinction between main and modified scenarios in a consistent way. I view world_war_ii_v3 as a mod with 2 scenarios World War II v3 1941 and World War II v3 1942
How about Revised and Revised LHTR? Is that two scenarios of the same mod too, or is Revised LHTR a mod of (basic) Revised or what?
Besides, "mod" as in "modification" has to refer to something, I would say. V3 is a mod of what then? Or are you using "mod" as in "module"? As I said, I'm not clear.
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@black_elk said in Map Making Q&A:
This is an interesting question about the names, or what we all mean when using them. My language has changed over time
For me scenario always meant specifically the 1941 or 1942 scenario on the v3 game board, since prior to that two scenarios for one game wasn't really a thing.
Haven't read the rest yet, but this got me perplexed. Not sure about games, but multiple scenarios (if we want to use @RogerCooper terms) for the same map was very much of a thing already, wasn't it? Beside the ploriferation of alternative variants (especially for Classic: Omaha, Utah, Kremlin...), Classic has 3 main variants using the same map: the Second Edition, the Third Edition and Iron Blitz (and one could have the First Edition too), and the Revised map is used by Revised basic as well as Revised LHTR. TripleA wise, there is no structural difference between these cases and the V3 case (or the Global 1940 map). For example, V3 is a map which offers two games: 1941 and 1942, and Revised is also a map which offers two games: Revised (basic) and Revised LHTR.
