Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows

Cernel

@Frostion said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

As I mentioned before; Colonial or Industrial. I think both would fit circa 1500-1900.

Personally, for 1500-1900, I don't like either Colonial or Industrial.
Industrial makes me think of XIX century to present time, and definitely not the Renaissance, and WW1 and WW2 are surely "industrial" as well. So, the main problem is that "industrial" definitely doesn't stop in 1900.
Colonial is a good term itself, actually, as (as you point out) that age starts with the Spaniards colonising the New World and ends in 1900 when pretty much everything colonisable has been colonised, a lot very recently.
But the problem I have with "Colonial" is that it refers to a specific phenomenon of the time and would be strange to have "Napoleonic Empires" or "The Great Northern War" or "Civil War" called "Colonial".
Maybe a better term for 1500-1900 would be "Revolutional"?
Not very intuitive but, after all, the Renaissance is sort of a revolution, then you have the scientific revolution, the industrial revolution, the French revolution and all the revolutions of the XIX century, so that, in a way, 1500-1900 might be see as the "Age of Revolutions"?
Still not very fitting for, like, "The Great Northern War" or "Civil War", but it might be a decent choice, instead of the disliked "Early Modern"?

Cernel

Regarding futuristic and fantasy I'm thinking that they should not be specifically represented. The reason is that it is hard to differentiate and, for example, one could make a map about another fictional world that maybe has no supernatural elements at all, just like a realistic map, but in an alternate world, and I don't think that would rate as "fantasy", would it? So, then, we would need a 3rd, and maybe also a 4th totally fictional category. War of the Relics is actually close to that concept.

So, here it is my new take:

Antique : dinosaurs to 1492
Revolutional : 1492-1914
WW1 : 1914-1929
WW2 : 1929-1945
Recent : 1945 today
Multi-Age : at least two of the above fully covered
Fantastic : any totally fictional settings or having totally fictional elements
Abstract : maps not aiming at representing anything

(the perspective is European; thus other realities may shift the timeline)

So, I think the preference is not to have a counterfactual category, and have, for example, "Cold War" as part of "Recent" and "Age of Tribes" as part of "Multi-Age".
The open question is if "Fantastic" should or should not have maps set in a real timeline but having totally fictional elements (meaning something that does not possibly belong to reality); examples:
Steampunk in Fantastic or WW1?
Zombieland in Fantastic or Recent?
My preference is such maps staying in "Fantastic".

?

prastle

@Cernel I think what u have missed here is what the word fantastic means ...

It means AWESOME! OR AMAZING! This is why all are saying a new name is needed such as fantasy or whatever

Hepps

@prastle And the word Antique is less than ideal.

Cernel

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fantastic
Oxford says that the actual meaning is "Imaginative or fanciful; remote from reality" and it is informally used as meaning extraordinarily good or attractive. But I'll take your word that maybe the basic meaning is so uncommon to be hardly understandable?
Also "epic" is used like that, but it is not that, then, we can't use "epic" to mean what it actually means, I think.

Ok, so it looks like that now the remaining issues are only related to the names.
Of course, the more we split up, the better names we can get, but the fact is that we don't want to split up a lot, and ending up with categories with 2 or 3 maps each.

Well, always assuming that at some point in the sci-fi future a developer will turn this into something, I might get some help, then:

We need 1 word for identifying something that has nothing or almost nothing to do with the real world, but can be used for whatever thing not belonging to it, either fantasy, or fictional science, but also an alternative world that maybe it is very similar to our own, but just not our own, or something like Zombieland, that it is our world but with Zombies running around (we definitely don't want to split this concept into 4+ categories).
My other ideas would be "Fictitious" and "Unreal". Are these terrible too?
We need 1 word for summing up Feral, Primeval, Ancient and Medieval all in one (couldn't find anything better than Antique), in a way that it would not feel out of place if used to define a Medieval setting, which I believe "Ancient" would, as it is normally used to mean a period at the very most until Charlemagne (IX century AC), but I'm not sure, since the French used "ancien régime" to mean feudalish stuff.

Hepps

@Cernel The definition for the word fantastic in English is quite a bit different from its common usage. Fantasy is far and away the most common term used to define a category or genre.... while fantastic is predominantly used as a descriptor... ie. "That fantasy game was fantastic".

Cernel

@Hepps I think "fantasy" is too much specific, and can be used only for D&D kind of stuff, while fictional is too broad, and can be used also for a "Cold War" or "World War 2010" scenarios, that never happened in reality.
I was thinking "fantastic" was just fine, in its meaning of "remote from reality".
Well, I think I'm out of ideas for the labels.

Cernel

To be clear, I wanted a term for something that it is not set in any time in real history, but maybe it is just perfectly realistic, albeit alternative, or it is so fictitious that can't be considered merely counterfactual.

prastle

@Cernel counter factual is so vague i don't even understand .... Counter to what? the game of triplea? the engine?

The map list needs to be easily understood by time line and genre

keep fantasy as dragons etc by itself

futuristic as in star trek etc

pre 1900 maybe iron age? or Frosti's colonialism idea?

Cernel

@prastle said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

@Cernel keep fantasy as dragons etc by itself

futuristic as in star trek etc

The problem if we go for fantasy and futuristic is that, then, we need more and more fictional categories for other things that do not belong to those specific genres nor to realty.

For example, "Steampunk" is not fantasy and not futuristic, or the "Invasion USA" map, and also War of the Relics is hardly fantasy; it is just another medieval world.

And also stuff like this, potentially:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Happened_Here
It Happened Here shows an alternative history where the United Kingdom has been invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany.

The point is that the categories should be fitting not only for the current maps, which is already hard, but also for any maps that might be made in the future.

prastle

@Cernel ok
so fantasy is a genre as is futuristic guess ya need a third genre for alternate history like library

Black_Elk

I'd say if we have to define the terms we're using to describe these periods, then the terms probably aren't really functioning the way they should. Really needs to be something anyone can parse at glance. Maybe it would be better to just use combination descriptions if you want to cover multiple eras instead of trying to coin a new name, or resurrect a less familiar one?
Ancient/Classical or something similar would be more recognizable to English speakers than Antique for example. Or you could just give the dates covered. Fantasy/Sci-Fi as a larger umbrella might be easier than trying to give each of those a separate entry. When you leave them together there is less need to carve out a specific slot for space games vs sword and sorcery type stuff, aliens, time travel or whatever.

I do like the idea of the abstract or mini games being cordoned off. Still don't know how much value we get out of carving it up too much though. I mean, unless we're pushing a dozen maps that fit into the category, it's probably too nuanced.

I prefer the suggestion voiced earlier about Tags/filters. Sometimes the map names are very descriptive other times less so, and tags might help people to see what's what at a glance. Dont think we need to anticipate everything in advance, but the more games that end up in the catalog, the more useful something like this will prove in the future. So it would be cool to see something put together. Good call

prastle

@Black_Elk good ideas

Cernel

@Black_Elk said in Map Scenario Categories In Download Windows:

Ancient/Classical or something similar would be more recognizable to English speakers than Antique for example.

Well, Classical is a subset of Ancient, thus there Ancient alone would be already fine. The matter is that Antique is meant to mean "before Modernity", that is "before Renaissance", that is, as I said, the "Feral" age plus the "Primeval" age plus the "Ancient" age plus the "Medieval" age.

So, if we would use recognisable terms summed up, it should be called "Feral/Primeval/Ancient/Medieval".

Hepps

@Cernel LMFAO. OCD much?

Cernel

Ok. Maybe then it is better going all the opposite direction and use "Fictional" to represent really everything that can be regarded so except what is merely counterfactual, anachronistical or generally unhistorical:

1.Antique (until 1492)
/High Quality:
270BC
270BC Variants
/Good Quality:
Feudal Japan
/Experimental:
Age Of The Sturlungs
Ancient Times
Empire
Feudal Japan Warlords
First Punic War
Jurassic
Rome Total War
Total Ancient War

2.Revolutional (1492-1914)
/High Quality:
Civil War
Diplomacy
Napoleonic Empires
/Good Quality:
Caribbean Trade War
Domination
/Experimental:
Blue vs Gray
The Great Northern War

3.WW1 (1914-1929)
/High Quality:
Great War
/Good Quality:
Battle of Jutland
Domination 1914 No Mans Land
/Experimental:
1914-COW-Empires
Domination 1914 Blood And Steel
Domination 1914-Weltpolitik
New World Order 1915Lebowski

4.WW2 (1929-1945)
/High Quality:
Big World
New World Order
The Pact of Steel
The Rising Sun
Total World War
World At War
World War II Classic
World War II Europe
World War II Global
World War II Pacific
World War II Revised
World War II v3
World War II v4
World War II v5 1942
World War II v6 1941
/Good Quality:
Big World 2
Pacific Challenge
Red Sun Over China
Ultimate World
/Experimental:
Arnhem
Atari
Big World Variations
Classic Variations
D-Day
D-Day2
Eastern Front
Europe
Global 1940 Redesign HouseRules
Global War
Global War2
Iron War
New World Order Lebowski Edition
NWO Variants
Pacific
Pact of Steel Variations
Ultimate World Variants
World At War Variants
World War II Revised Variations
WW2 Philippines
WW2v3_11N
WW2v3_Variants

5.Recent (1945 today)
/High Quality:
.
/Good Quality:
Cold War
/Experimental:
Camp David
Cold War Asia1948

6.Multi-Age (at least two of the above fully covered)
/High Quality:
.
/Good Quality:
.
/Experimental:
.

7.Fictional (any mainly or totally fictional settings)
/High Quality:
Middle Earth
/Good Quality:
Age of Tribes
Battle of Aventurica
Dragon War
Greyhawk
Greyhawk Wars
Star Trek Dilithium War
Star Wars Galactic War
Star Wars Tatooine War
Twilight Imperium
/Experimental:
Elemental Forces
Game of Thrones
Invasion USA
Large Middle Earth
Neuschwabenland
Steampunk
Stellar Forces
Ur Quan War Masters Edition
War of the Lance
War of the Relics
World War2010
Zombieland

8.Abstract (maps not aiming at representing any settings)
/High Quality:
Capture the Flag
Minimap
/Good Quality:
.
/Experimental:
Hex Globe10
Tactics Campaign

So, please, take a look at the list and if you have alternative ideas for the category names, like a different name for "Fictional" that may fit better the description and the list, let us know.

Cernel

@Hepps Well, if the same thing is asked yet again, I guess I answer yet again (about the matter that category is meant to represent Feral+Primeval+Ancient+Medieval, and it is so because splitting up the 4 would make for very small categories, and I didn't come up with anything better than Antique).

Hepps

@Cernel I don't care anymore...you have proven yourself incapable of listening to what other people are saying. Despite multiple people making recommendations for English terms that people will recognize easily and immediately... you continually ignore what they are telling you because of a compulsive need for an organizational system so insanely specific, while at the same time creating names for things that no English speaking person would ever fathom to use under these circumstances.

I surrender.

prastle

@Cernel umm Feral? Like animals vs animals? do we have that? do they have rabies? Neat idea for a map tho. Guess ya mean zombies.

Cernel

Myself still would prefer "Early Modern" and "Late Modern" over "Revolutional" and "Recent". "Revolutional", in particular, I don't like. For the record, the other proposals so far are "Colonial", "Industrial" and "Gunpowder".