💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[JohnnyCat]

PS. How come I cannot get @ The Dog to pop up when I type the “@“ character? What am I doing wrong?

[JohnnyCat]

@black_elk

Thank you as always. But some Qs:

You said:
“In A&A I think the bomber's most useful role is actually as a defensive unit that can move 1 hitpoint across 6 tiles.”

What is a tile? I guess what I call a territory. But what means “move a hot point across 6 tiles”??? Please use English for us Dummies!

“ There is for sure a reason to purchase strat bombers in v5, since it's the most OP unit in all of A&A”

What means “v5”

[JohnnyCat]

My apologies for the recent long text - no indentation or tabs response.

I’m new to this forum and just not sure how to post something in a readable format.

I have no idea if ```
even

And my last long post really has some hugely important content so I’m gonna try to repost it

OMG. there’s gotta be a better way hahahaha

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

PS. How come I cannot get @ The Dog to pop up when I type the “@“ character? What am I doing wrong?

Yea I know. There have been many respondents in the topic, that his name doesn't show right off the bat. I do @ Th, then he shows up around midway down the list. Or you could just type in TheDog.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

My apologies for the recent long text - no indentation or tabs response.

None needed, you have offended no one. I for one welcome your comments.

Has to HTML, simple bold, italic, lists, strikethrough, etc.. are listed at the very top, just under the title but before the edit box. Beyond those I'm not sure I could help with more.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

A. In play testing I found the tac Bombers to be the best at attacking enemy ground units especially with bunkers.

I will trust you on this, tac bombers attack at 2 and may receive bonus from command units, armor units and fighters. So, they are very effective in this roll. Bombers, on the other hand only attack at 1 and only receive command bonus.

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

How do fighters work? What is their role in this game? I see “Air battle” in game play often but no docs on them. Do they defend against bombers? Why are there even air battles?

Fighter attack/defend at 1 and they can't hit infantry. But they can give tac bombers a bonus, so they play more a support role.
There are two types of air battles. Interceptors' vs escorts and bombers and scrambles into a main battle. After the attacker completes all their combat-movement, the computer calculates all intercepts and scrambles and gives the defender a choice to move those units. Prior to an SBR run, if the defender has air units in the same territory either by placement or intercept movement, the air battle will show. There will be another selection box for the defender to choose the number of interceptors to use, the default is 0. Choosing the default at 0 means the defender is retreating his interceptors from the air-battle. Retreated interceptors are returned back to their original territory. If the defender selects more than 0, then there will be an air battle, which may last up to 3 rounds. Surviving interceptors are retreated back to their own territories.
Scrambling works about the same, with the major different being that surviving, not retreated, may join the main battle.

Cheers...

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat

I'm really sorry that I cannot give you more information on gameplay examples. My play of this map was during it early development. I, more or less, now just read the xml to get a feeling for the gameplay. I see problems and I try to solve them, either in the xml, or directly inside the engine code.

I'm not a developer, since java-OOP gives me fits. Most of my work is brute force, so to date I have had only 1 change pass. But I keep trying. Ask @beelee and @TheDog (see I almost typed out his whole tag.).

Cheers...

[beelee]

@wc_sumpton said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

Ask @beelee and @TheDog (see I almost typed out his whole tag.).

actually ask Elk as i've never played it

[Black_Elk]

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

@black_elk

Thank you as always. But some Qs:

You said:
“In A&A I think the bomber's most useful role is actually as a defensive unit that can move 1 hitpoint across 6 tiles.”

What is a tile? I guess what I call a territory. But what means “move a hot point across 6 tiles”??? Please use English for us Dummies!

“ There is for sure a reason to purchase strat bombers in v5, since it's the most OP unit in all of A&A”

What means “v5”

I'm a poor typist hehe. Yeah I use Tile to mean like any sea zone (SZ) or territory (TT)

What I meant to type was moving a Hit Point across 6 spaces basically. It's very powerful in A&A. Like if you fly a dozen bombers from London to Moscow, even on defense those extra pips flying in at just the right time can make all the difference. The other stuff that bombers can do on attack or sbr on top of that makes them all around the best heavy hitter, but even if all they could do was move a single hitpoint across a distance of 6 spaces, that alone would probably justify the cost at 12 in that game and makes them very useful. In A&A I mean. That's the point I was trying to make hehe

Here's a bomber focused game.

I only saw two step errors, one for casualty selection in round 3, Japan's turn vs China.

And then in round 7 with step Japan withdraw, on J7

Neither seemed to be a game breaker, just clicked through.

Below is the game on USA round 7

Here you can see what I mean about the bombers being very powerful just from shutting down the Move 3 from the Factory Rail. I bombed Germany pretty mercilessly from the getgo, then switched over to North Africa, but where they really came in clutch was shutting down the Factory at Trieste on the same turn that we landed in Naples. Preventing the Italian army from counter attacking at M3, pretty decisive even at the high cost in downed bombers along the way. I just opened by buying 10 and then bought like half a dozen every round.

2024-7-31-1941-Global-Command-Decision USA round 7.tsvg

ps. that game actually opened with the thing I mentioned before about the defensive air and the bunkers. Japan failed to kill the defending fighter in order to take the Philippines factory on J1. Then they whiffed in the battle for the central islands as well, which sorta set us up for success. Germany came at us on the water with an airblitz on G2, but we caught a nice break there as well and turned them back. Pretty strong line vs Italy. It's kinda debatable maybe whether it's better to kill the factories or just take them with larger forces, but it's definitely possible to mess with the computer's movement as well as their production by just reigning terror from above with the big bombers. It's enjoyable to beat up on the computer in this way like once there are a couple dozen bombers flying in the midgame, but the FastAI does't really respond in kind.

[JohnnyCat]

Hello Again,

I am eager to read the recent responses from you all... And THANK YOU ALL for responding.

But before that I have some quick questions

1. @wc_sumpton said: "tac bombers attack at 2 and may receive bonus from command units, armor units and fighters. So, they are very effective in this roll. Bombers, on the other hand only attack at 1 and only receive command bonus."

WHAT MEANS "attack at 1" and "attack at 2" ??? What is better?

WHERE ARE THESE DETAILS ON BONUSES from armor units and fighters? Do you mean that they attacking Tac-Bombers do better if attacking with Armor and/or Fighters?

2. @beelee said, "actually ask Elk as i've never played it".

WTCFH ? LOL

You did not play WHAT? I am confused. You commented on this game yet... you never played it?

3. @wc_sumpton stated, "I'm not a developer, since java-OOP gives me fits. Most of my work is brute force, so to date I have had only 1 change pass."

I don't understand? You are NOT a dev??? Yet you brute forced something? what is a change pass?

4. SUPER HERO Question.

WTF do these guys really do? They appear to actually give movement to units. I had a bunch of Nazis in Tripoli or wherever and when I moved the entire army group to the east I was able to MOVE THE ENTIRE GROUP like 2 "tiles". If I undid that I moved only half, I could not then move the other half.

That's fine as I gather that I need to move them together - but what are the actual rules on these super heroes ?? How and why and where do these commanders impart extra movement?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the superhero concept for this game. This is NOT about realism and those heroes give much to this game, but I really need to learn what they actually do.

5. BLITZKRIEG??? I noticed that some of my units do not have only 1 movement like they wound normally. It appears that some units, such as infantry, actually get a movement bonus if I move them with armor units - but this is very difficult to intuit. Are there actual rules/docs about this? Where? Is this the blitzkrieg?

6. Finally, I get the interceptor concept but WHY do all my interceptors completely die and only very rarely appear to actually do anything in terms of influencing a battle. I have only one time been able to save a game at point where I choose to intercept - and making that choice actually saved the defenders. It appears to me that in overwhelmingly most cases, I am better off NEVER sending intercept. Am I missing something or is this more or less intuitively correct?

==========================================

I love all the passion that you guys seem to have - and I love having found this game and this forum.

But

YOU GUYS ALL SPEAK IN CODE - I am a regular human WITHOUT all this code speak. So IckNey Icomba SiPeakMay DiBu I-Binglish eh?

In other words: Please assume that I know nothing and explain things from there. I realize that this may be asking much but I only need this a few times as I am quickly getting the feel for things (I call this Intuition on the Game Mechanics).

THANK YOU

[Black_Elk]

Here is another USA game, also bomber focused, but going the other direction. Light footprint vs Europe and very heavy against Japan. A Kill Japan First game more or less. Again at USA round 7.

2024-8-1-1941-Global-Command-Decision_USA_round_7_rematch.tsvg

To get set up I thought a larger initial investment in the USN made sense with a couple battleships and another carrier deck.

I bombed Truk but then bypassed to setup on Saipan and Iwo. From this position the bombers disrupt production against Japan's home island factories. Destroyer pickets then cover the main fleet by laying down blockers along whatever routes Japan might respond. Worked pretty well just going for broke and making a b line straight for Tokyo.

On the European side, managing the transports for a D-Day landing was tough because UK had so many transports already located in the adjacent sea zones. I think landing units to support the beachheads which the Brits had just established would have been a stronger play, but I could only fit a couple transports into those stacks. Still, it seemed to be enough to prevent the Axis from driving the Brits back into the sea at least. We sent a second transport group to take the Algerian factory and do a little mini Torch. In this one Europe has been a bit of a sideshow, since my main aim was to just wreck the Japanese with bombers.

Compared to A&A where Japan is a single tile, in this one it's broken up into 8 tiles. If they lose control of the sea zones it's much harder for them to stack and defend with only aircraft. Also if USA is bombing their only Major factories on the board Japan is quickly stuck. Here they would be unable to build new ships or aircraft, except perhaps if they take Chunking to spam some fighters. A human player might be able to see the invasion coming and plan their stacks a bit better, but the FastAI just kinda gets blown out.

I think it would make sense for Japan to have a production core in Chosen/Manchuria as like a fallback for when this happens so they can try to cover sz 006 C and coastal China. Or sz 019 A especially since it covers so much coastline. Those two together cover like a dozen territories.

I think it's more realistic to have Japanese production really tied to the home islands more than occupied Korea or Manchuria, but mechanically I think the FastAI would probably do better if it had a couple Medium factories on the mainland. I don't know that it needs to be on the board at the outset for the player, but for the FastAI it could be bonused in perhaps? Just seems like they could use a secondary sea zone for fleet builds. India feels sorta similar but at least it has that S. Africa facility for some support and the Med can be transited by the Midgame pretty easily, I think for Japan as the player it's easy enough to deal with USA and start swinging that direction, but if the Fast AI tries to do the same it just kinda gets crushed if USA drives over the middle.

Even though Germany and Italy are still going pretty strong, Axis are pretty much toast since Japan is in full collapse by round 7. I think there position is unrecoverable, since all there factories will get dropped next round and USA holds Kyushu to reinforce the fleet. Feels like team Allies are already atop the podium heheh

Didn't catch any errors in that one, but I was also watching artistic gymnastics so might have gotten distracted lol.

Pretty fun, I just feel like Japan needs to be able to flex somehow during the downfall. The Kamikazes and Conscripts could probably be a factor, but when the curtain falls on that Home island sea zone I think it's bound to be too little too late for them.

Destroyer blocking is probably one of the main things the computer just doesn't seem to grasp. Like to sacrifice a couple 8 TUV units in order to prevent an all out attack that might cost 80 TUV in ships sunk. The computer never makes that sort of move at sea.

On land sometimes they will leave infantry blockers but at sea that rarely seems to occur. Perhaps the M3 naval units shouldn't create a hostile sea zone on defense? Basically where warships can pass each other within a sea zone unless there are larger capital ships like carriers. If only the most expensive ships could block that might change the dynamic somewhat in favor of how the computer already behaves. The units would still have a lot of utility on attack and for shucking infantry and such around, but wouldn't be able to do the picketing thing where the player can just always keep a destroyer one tile ahead of the main fleet to close off all the approaches.

The other way to go is to tip the balance back in favor of aircraft so they can airblitz harder perhaps? It takes Japan a while to set that up, even if they have additional fighter types being unlocked from having the homeland invaded, I don't think it would be enough to really screen against the full weight of the USN. I'm not sure if a player were to max build a fleet (every unit type at the cap) if the attacker could ever really overcome the defender. I think this is why the computer always backs off or just ends up splitting it's fleet in the face of a larger enemy stack coalescing nearby. FastAI always seem to run, but once they run away from the ship building factories they're sorta hosed hehe. Anyhow, not sure what's best. I think it still makes sense that they get the downgrade, but maybe it should shift like Kyushu, to Chosen or something along those lines so they got a backup spot that USA can snap up quite as easily. I think it works well having Hokkaido as a minor cause it's not as much of get when USA takes it over. I think if they could spawn fighters out of Korea or Manchuria that might also help for a clap back. Again though tough to say. This is the first time I've played in a while lol

Catch ya next out

[JohnnyCat]

@black_elk Stated: "What I meant was to type was moving a Hit Point across 6 spaces. It's very powerful in A&A. Like if you fly a dozen bombers from London to Moscow, even on defense those pips flying in at just the right time can make all the difference. The stuff that bombers can do on attack or sbr on top of that makes them all around the best heavy hitter, but even if all they could do was move a single hitpoint across a distance of 6 spaces that alone would probably justify the cost at 12. In A&A I mean. That's the point I was trying to make anyway hehe"

And I still do not understand a word of that mate. Fly a dozen bombers and "pips flying"???

"What I meant to type was moving a Hit Point across 6 spaces " ????

It's all Greek to me - and I am Greek.

Please explain this. THX

[Black_Elk]

pips are the attack or defense value of the unit.

If a bomber defends at 1 (like in A&A) that's one defensive pip.

In A&A bombers also have the 1 hitpoint. So when you fly a stack of bombers their max distance to help a teammate on defense say. To me that's a very powerful if not the most powerful use for bombers in A&A, so like why Allies always fly them to say Moscow, India, or maybe Caucasus (depending on the board) to add to the defensive stacks there and push the odds. Making it harder for the attacker to justify making the attack. The defenseless bomber idea just removes the hitpoint so the bomber can't serve as defensive fodder like that.

In this game USA has a bomber that can move 8 spaces, so whatever it does on defense is that much more potent. For fighters its more thematic that they defend well, and those don't move nearly as far, so I don't think it'd be as much of an issue.

Sorry I use too much jargon probably lol

[Black_Elk]

Oh so a major difference from this game compared to A&A is that most of the armored units function as land transports. They can tow an infantry unit along with them. This is described in the unit tables, but it's using the acronym so like M1 is move 1 space, M2 move 2, if the unit can also transport units (tow them along) it's described as a transport.

There are also stack limits for each unit type, transports usually have a ceiling on the number of units per tile. So like x10 of whatever unit then it caps out.

Terrain effects how far some of those units can move, so sometimes infantry will be able to move farther if they are starting out on a factory. It depends which terrain they're trying to cross sometimes the tanks can only move so many dudes. The land HQ generals are treated like supped up tanks as well. I'd have a hard time explaining all the unit roster interactions, since it's mostly of theDogs designs, and WC adding xml options to make stuff possible that hadn't been tried before.

I haven't seen much intercepting. I think it's better when the computer uses their fighters to scramble into an adjacent tile, which works reasonably well.

Sorry if I was confusing, I'm used to tossing around acronyms and such from earlier conversations we've had when making the thing, but it probably doesn't translate all that well sometimes. It's an issue I have like typing in this weird shorthand for tripleA.

[JohnnyCat]

@black_elk dude I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

Bombers fly over 8 distances and somehow leave pips !?!?!? Or bread crumbs? Or bundles of cash? Wtf

I’ve played Axis and Allies for 15 years and never heard of bombers flying distances to help friends ….

What friends ?

How does flying over tiles help anything???

Please explain like I’m new

Cheers

[TheDog]

OMG I go to bed early and there are over 20 posts, you guys are having a party without me.

@johnnycat
So many questions.

A Dev is a developer of the TripleA engine
Forum name on here / GitHub name
LaFayette / DanVanAtta
Myrd / asvitkine
frigoref / frigoref

A Map makers/Game maker, usually split into graphics side and code side
Mainly Graphics Black_Elk, ebbe
Mainly Code beelee, TheDog, wc_sumpton
So on here we are map makers.

1941 GCD for me is unusual, my previous games rarely get more than 100 views, Shogun a 1000s, but this one almost 200,000.
This game/map is ridiculously popular.

@JohnnyCat this thread unusually mixes code chat and gameplay chat, bad for you.

A&A & TripleA
Atk/Def 1 is poor, Atk/Def 4 very good.
+1 adds so is better

In TripleA dice sides can be anything even 7 sided.
1941 GCD use 6 sided dice, a d6 for most combats, but uses d12 for some AA combat.
Most d12 rolls will be seen as 1/2 in the manual, so thats 1/12, this is to keep the combat tables looking the same, by using a base of D6 probability, Battleships can have 3/6 AA, but will Atk/Def v other ships 4/6, see the ship table in the manual.

Best use of Bombers
Attack factories with a HQ-Air, see below
Number of Bombers;
3+ to Destroy an undefended Base-Camp
6+ to Destroy an undefended Industry-Lgt
8+ to Destroy an undefended Industry-Med
10 to Destroy an undefended Industry-Hvy
Escort Fighters will be needed if defended by enemy fighters.

More later.

[JohnnyCat]

@Black_Elk THINK I GET IT

I think you are trying to say that one can deliver a stack of defenders to any spot 6 or even 8 tiles away. And a stack of 6 bombers (at 15 or 11 each) could contribute 6 units of defense 1.

I get it... sorry but all those "pips" and the way you said it had me thinking that they were generating something as they flew...

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog AWESOME - THANK YOU FOR Explaining all that.

"Best use of Bombers
Attack factories with a HQ-Air, see below
Number of Bombers;
3+ to Destroy an undefended Base-Camp
6+ to Destroy an undefended Industry-Lgt
8+ to Destroy an undefended Industry-Med
10 to Destroy an undefended Industry-Hvy
Escort Fighters will be needed if defended by enemy fighters."

Questions :

1. Why does supplying an Air Superhero (HQ-Air) do anything? What does it do? Why is it necessary to add to the stack of bombers?

2. THANK GOD for that table. I was looking everywhere to find that out. And I THOUGHT it was some die role thing - are you saying that If 10 bombers get through the AA and any fighters that the Hvy-Industry gets annihilated ?

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
You dont need the HQ-Air, but it takes damage/a hit instead of a bomber, yes its more expensive than a bomber, but it can move 6+ so keeps pace.

That table is not 100% guaranteed success, its just a guide.

1941 GCD has so many pluses and minuses with unit synergy that even I have to experiment to find out what works and feels right.

You can only stack a maximum of 10 Bombers per territory.

Secondary use of a Bomber
4+ Bombers can take out a Bunker only 1/6 chance as its a ground target, so 8+ for 2 Bunkers.

[Black_Elk]

@johnnycat Yeah exactly hehe

Here's an example, using 1942 second edition A&A

Say Allies have 6 Bombers in London. The bomber unit in A&A moves 6 spaces.

Now say Germany is threatening an attack on Moscow. Maybe they've got odds like 75% chance to prevail. But if the British player flies those bombers to help their Soviet teammate (adding 6 pips to the defense total defense value of the forces at Moscow) the odds suddenly dip down to below 50% making the attacker think twice. But really it's the fodder hitpoint more that the defensive pip at 1. You can see how powerful it is in regular A&A by just running the battle calc and then adding a couple defensive bombers to see how it shifts the odds for the attacker.

I don't know where I got "pip" from, I think it's tournament lingo or Low Luck lingo maybe?

Who knows where these coinages originate. Probably from those Don Rae essays from the late 90s hehe.

Anyhow when I say the bomber is a powerful defensive unit that's the sort of situation I'm talking about. It's the primary use in my view, cause like Strategic Bombing, attacking Ships, all the other fun stuff the bomber can do is obviously badass, but simply being able to fly those hitpoints to a position very far away is super potent in a turn based game like this. All I was trying to say. But I'm long winded and always struggle with brevity.

In this game USA can't just fly bombers to help Moscow like they can in A&A boards (cause of those restrictions on which nations have open/closed borders) but they can still do it for say the Brits in Europe or Asia. Flying over the territories with such a quickness is helpful, because if I had to move the same number of fodder hitpoints on the ground it would take twice as long, and I'd face enemy ground units along the way. That's in A&A though. The fighter in A&A is also the better defense hitpoint cause it has a higher defense value at 4 (so 4 pips to force), but it also only moves 4 spaces, so it can't go quite as nuts. M6 is a lot of reach to bolster defenses even with the lowly 1 on defense power.

I guess the idea would be to experiment with a strat bomber concept that doesn't have any sort of defense value or hitpoint, but which can only operate as an attacker or for sbr, which is sorta how they work now, except for in edge cases like where bunkers might be involved or where they can't be targeted for some reason. Right now I still think of this scenario as mainly a single player experience so it's not too bad if I just don't go too crazy with the bomber builds. Air transports can do some similarly crazy things, but it's a little harder to get them into position early on. I think once a beachhead is established though, they're pretty formidable since they can fly a bunch of the Infantry Elites around to punch holes. I feel like each unit type becomes kind way more powerful once they are stacked together like half a dozen or more. Everything just kinda opperates on a much bigger scale, but also because some of the attack values are low relative to A&A the battles are swingier. There's also just more information to parse generally, which creates a kind of fog for the planning. To me this sorta works, like the player is playing with incomplete information sometimes, but that's different than just like trying to learn how the units all interact.

Probably the game notes just needs another annotated manual. I use the Help tab Unit Help to see the descriptions, but then sometimes it's not quite clear, for example which units target or can't be targeted by.

Here's how the German Light-Armor unit is described in Unit Help

Type: Land Att | Def | Mov: 2 | 2 | 2

Targeted Attack for Combat: 1/12 Flak with 1 Attacks for Unlimited Rounds

Targeted Defense for Combat: 1/12 Flak with 1 Attacks for Unlimited Rounds

Support on Attack: 1 Offensive Support Power to 1 Allied Bomber-Tac and Inf-Motorized

Amphibious Attack Modifier: -1

Can Blitz

Can't Target Some Units

Is a Land Transport

Transporting Cost: 4

Placement Requirements: Industry-Hvy or Industry-Med or Industry-Lgt * Includes Armoured Cars & Light Tanks * Can carry/tow 1 of Inf-Conscript, Inf-Trained, Inf-Elite, Artillery, Anti-Tank * Support attacking allied Bomber-Tac

---

Admittedly kinda hard to parse

The "Is a Land Transport" part describes how it can tow another Inf Unit

"can't target some units" is the part that I think becomes confusing. You basically have to cross reference other Units to see which ones because it won't all fit in the tooltip. I think anyway.