💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[JohnnyCat]

Hey GCD wunderkind! Apologies for being away from building the Guide/Manual the past couple weeks but other priorities came up.

Back at it now so here are some questions:

1. I am seeing the need for a traditional well documented user manual/Game Guide that would be many pages and include many graphics. But I also see the need for a more concise guide.

How does this sound to you guys and are you interested in me putting together some sort of concise in-game Guide/Manual that can be accessed easily and provide more of a concise view of the instructions/Manual? Or should this be just one new long details manual?

2. I continue to be stumped by some of the game's behavior and need to clarify some of the mechanics such as why Germany and Italy can invade Spain, but the Allies cannot invade ANY of the neutrals anywhere after turn 3 or 4.

3. And Air Battles are very confusing to me as well. In particular, the game does not seem able to handle air units being "caught on the ground". As seen in the graphic, the Chinese got the drop on some poor game play by the Japanese but instead of wiping out the air units, which is what I would expect, they are instead invulnerable from damage and get to fly away. It would be helpful to know the air battle policy or sequence.

4. Thanks for all the previous comments - I understand Blitzkrieg well enough now, but in addition to noting that tanks can carry one other unit each up to 2 tiles, I still do not understand why tanks can SOMETIMEs blitz through a tile to invade a tile 2 away, but other times their movement is stopped at one tile. I assume this is related to terrain but having to decode this has proven elusive so if there is some rule in place that describes this please share it.

THANK YOU all for the help. If you want the concise guide ASAP, I think I can get a PDF file draft done within September and then I can share that and get your comments. Assuming that is a wanted thing, then I guess you guys would figure out where to put it but I am thinking it would be under the tabs: RESOURCES, TERRITORY, PLAYERS, ACTIONS.

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat

I will leave 1) manual and 2) neutrals to someone else as this deals with a specific game design rule.

To understand about air battles, maybe a better understanding about the relationships between each type of unit, and how the engine handles battles.

Air Battles only consist of air units and happen prior to the main land/sea battle. GCD defaults to a 3 round air battle with the defender being given the chance to retreat prior to anything happens. (The defensive AI does this a lot, which makes it feel like nothing happens, which is quite true.) If the defensive player "scrambled" in, those air units may not participate in the upcoming main battle. Air units that were present at the start will be able to fight.

The main battle is broken down into different phases/steps, and attacker always goes first.

1. AA fire (fighter 3/6 vs air, armor/elite/trained 1/12 vs air, conscripts N/A)
2. Combat (fighter 1/5 vs non-air/non-infantry units, armor/elite/trained/conscripts 2-1/6 vs non-air)
3. repeat

During the AA step is the only time Air units can be attacked. The game engine tries to handle many things, like if there is only one type of unit (fighters) and casualties need to be taken, the engine will take from that pool of units without asking.

So, this might be why you are having problems with "air battles". What you might be seeing are not "air battles" but regular combat in different steps.

Cheers...

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
The current terse set of notes, is just enough to get by if you know TripleA well.

If you are willing to do the

1. Concise version
2. Detailed version (this will contain the Concise version)

Then please do what you are willing and I add it to the download.
The concise will be used to replace the current version, so in png format. So this will be where the current version is Help> Game Notes
The detailed version will be a stand a lone pdf version.

.
Politic Relationships
So back on page 39, I posted this
Here is a first draft of the Politic Relationships.

It is complicated, but so was the politics of WW2.
Your question #2
I continue to be stumped by some of the game's behavior and need to clarify some of the mechanics such as why Germany and Italy can invade Spain, but the Allies cannot invade ANY of the neutrals anywhere after turn 3 or 4.

The simple answer is, its a design choice by me. Also tempered by what the TripleA engine can do, like;
USA needs to be in a certain relationship state to absorb allies on rounds 1-3. I could of tried to hide this fact, but for those that can read the xml and there is usually notes says what I & WC Sumpton code does, so why bother.

One reason why the allies cannot invade neutrals, is for history sake, because they usually did not, yes I know Britain invaded Iceland and then the USA took it over. But the allies were having a hard time fighting axis why would they start yet another war with a neutral.

Also the allies AI needs to focus on the axis otherwise it will literally lose focus.

I have only played the A&A boardgame 3 times many years ago, but Im guessing from your questions you want it to be almost a free for all where every neutral can be invaded by any nation.

1941 GCD is trying to be a simulation of the period, with some of the constraints that the WW2 powers had.

#4 I still do not understand why tanks can SOMETIMEs blitz through a tile to invade a tile 2 away
Yes the difficultly is related to Move 2, Blitz, Railways move 3 and terrain effects and their interaction with each other, individually the components work, but all together, I have not tried to work it out.

[JohnnyCat]

@wc_sumpton OK that is good to know, there are phases to air combat. And clearly the air battles get resolved before the land combat.

Follow ups:

1.What happens to scrambled air units that survive? Where do they go?

2. What does it mean for a bunch of armor units to attack a tile that ONLY has planes?

3. What are the fractions ? "fighter 3/6"? meaning? I sort of feel this is like a dice roll? so 1, 2, 3 on a 6-sided die means a hit? What does a hit mean? Does it kill or wound?

4. Same with what you wrote on number 2: "Combat (fighter 1/5 vs non-air/non-infantry units, armor/elite/trained/conscripts 2-1/6 vs non-air)". What are these fractions ?

5. Finally, what happens (in detail) if a bunch of planes of EVERY type "attack" a tile with units in them including bunkers?

6. And what happens when the planes "bomb/escort" a tile with units in them including bunkers?

Cheers

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog OK. This is awesome and I fully expected your answers but had to double check. And YES, I did not even realize that I was expecting a free-for-all, lol... So I think it might be best to add some of your text on the matter to the new manual regarding GCD trying to factor in some historic perspective. Otherwise folks might just sort of assume things like I was doing :). Many of us do indeed come from the boardgame background I would guess.

Well I think I can proceed now with trying my best to make both the concise/terse and comprehensive manuals now.

The only other questions I really have are more about the heuristics themselves and why the AI does bizarre things such as: attacking a stack at 1 to 10 odds when not attacking would be the long term better move. Or why the US will hover massive hoards of invaders in the atlantic... only to leave them there and not really assist England's invasions on the continent.

THX

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
The AI does bizarre things, because it is a general purpose AI designed to mimic the A&A boardgames with their low unit count and their rules, it is probably over 10 years old.

The Hard AI does a better a better job at attacking but will still leave reinforcements off Europe.

That said the AI is still viable and will give the gamer a good beating every now and then, whether it is fantasy, historic or Sci-Fi.

[wc_sumpton]

@JohnnyCat

Good morning! Nice set of questions!

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

1.What happens to scrambled air units that survive? Where do they go?

Scrambled air units which survive, not retreat, an air battle are allowed to participate in the land/sea battle. Scrambled air units which survive/retreat the land/sea battle, or that were retreated during the air battle, will be returned automatically to their original territory, unless that territory was captured by an opponent. These air unit will be allowed to move one space to an appropriate landing territory. If no such territory exists, there will be destroyed.

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

What does it mean for a bunch of armor units to attack a tile that ONLY has planes?

Armor can only attack during the AA phase at 1/12. The planes defend only during normal combat at 1/6.

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

What are the fractions ? "fighter 3/6"? meaning? I sort of feel this is like a dice roll? so 1, 2, 3 on a 6-sided die means a hit? What does a hit mean? Does it kill or wound?

Yes, fractions mean to-hit/dice. Most unit can only suffer 1 hit, but there are some units, like bunkers, that can absorb more the one hit prior to their removal.

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

Finally, what happens (in detail) if a bunch of planes of EVERY type "attack" a tile with units in them including bunkers?

During the AA step, ground units (accept conscripts) defend against the air units (accept nuclear-bombers and V-2 rockets) at 1/12 and defending air units at 1/6. Attack air units can attack only air units at 1/6.
During the combat step the bomber and bomber-tec can attack all ground units at 1-2/6. (This means bomber at 1 bomber-tec at 2.) The nuclear-bomber at 6/6(10). (This means to-hit/dice (number of dice)). V1 and V2 rockets can only hit factories at 1/6, but factories are infrastructure and cannot be targeted. Fighter attack ground units (accept infantry) at 1/6. Defending ground units cannot hit air units during this step.
Rinse and repeat.

@johnnycat said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

And what happens when the planes "bomb/escort" a tile with units in them including bunkers?

Once they have completed the SBR step all "bomb/escort" units will be allowed to retreat during the non-combat movement.

Cheers...

[JohnnyCat]

Please help me to understand how to best take this territory.

I have tried using the planes for bombing... disaster

I have tried attacking... disaster.

I keep getting stuck against a wall with this game despite having played it hundreds of times now. and beating it regularly.

But battles like this make absolutely no sense to me.

So please explain how you would take this territory and why my 10 to 1 odds still results in complete wipeouts of the attacking force.

Thanks

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
I assume you are talking about Anhwei?
If so, then you are are attacking a defended forest with Inf-Trained & Bunkers, they defend at 3
Most of your attacks are at 1
Even the Battle Calculator says dont do it.

.

.
You over committed your forces to take Hong Kong, your HQ-Army and more Infantry and Artillery should be fighting in Anhwei. The Chinese will counter attack so you need forces to defend for the following turn.

The forces that were in Shanghai should be used for attacking inland, that is taking Anhwei. Currently they are literally at sea, so for this turn not effective.

Remember Japan/China do not have the Blitzkrieg tactical advantage of Germany.
They do have Inf-Elite so make lots of sea borne attacks with support from Battleships & Cruisers.

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Yes I know all that. I did NOT Ask you to tell me why it doesn’t work

I asked HOW WOULD YOU TAKE THAT TERRITORY!

This game is truly a great advancement in my opinion.

And because I love it so much I’m trying to make it more accessible to others by writing a manual, with examples, to overcome the many difficulties this game presents to players from it being often impossible to get any consistent intuitive understanding of how to play it.

It’s way better than the basic axis and allies game because it offers more depth, and more complexity due to it incorporating terrain features, unit type advantages, differences in movement (eg 3 tiles from a factory via rail), Superhero's (though I still don't understand them) and much more.

In basic AA one mostly tries to gain local advantages in terms of unit number. If you have more units that the other guy and can compensate for any counter attack, then you win. This is the difference between checkers and chess IMHO.

That’s the basic AA game. Very simple, or rather, very INTUITIVE. It's EASY to understand what to do. This game not much. Bomb or attack? How to overcome terrain? How to use Commanders? Most of the tactical details elude me and I am an experienced gamer.

This game is different and much better, but it also has a tone of bizarre stuff I need to understand in order to better document.

I still don’t have a clear answer from any of you guys why, when my armored column comes across a freaking single air unit, it then gets wiped out!!!

When I see land units hit a tile with only air, I EXPECT the land units to 1. Take the territory and 2. Wipe out the air units or at least force them to retreat.

Yet that does not happen. Instead the attackers often get wiped out (especially if the air unit is a nuke) and the territory NEVER changes hands that battle. I believe that is a bug. Please don't tell me that the air units are "in the air." For if that is the case then the game should give the territory to the invading ground forces.

So when it comes to this China territory I’m trying to make examples in the manual to help players get some intuition of what to do. I hope you realize how unintuitive many aspects of this game are to anyone new. And please explain what "attacks on 3" and "defends on 1" really means. I play so many games I keep forgetting this. I assume this means 1, 2, 3 on a six sided dice but I would encourage you to spell those things out since my goal here to is teach beginners.

Make sense? Can any of you help?

Similarly the bunker thing still eludes me. If there is a tile with some land units and a bunker WHAT SHOULD THE AIRPOWER DO? Should they always “bomb” or always “attack”. I still can’t figure that out.

Also are the super hero’s (commanders) 2 hit like battleships, or just 1 hit? I just played and all of them got killed with one hit. Yet earlier I thought these big round human face units conveyed some extra hits? I’d love to learn how these commanders are supposed to be used.

Thank you

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
As per the current manual & tool tips
HQ-Army give support up to 5 land units & 5 air units, so maximise with at least 5 land units and 5 air units. They are only 1 hit units. They can also 'transport' a slower unit.

As land units AA attack air units at 1/12 odds and most Air units attack ground units at 1/6 odds, air units will tend to win against ground units one for one. But usually there is a bunch of ground units v air units, so as the odds are very low the results are very random. Remember conscripts & Bunkers have no AA.

If you want a binary answer for Bunkers its Bomb them.

For Bunkers, here is page 12 of the current manual, how to take Bunkers.

[JohnnyCat]

Another example of NOT MAKING INTUITIVE SENSE.

4 inf attack some bombers that just landed on a bare island after they made an extreme decision to attack some sea units at max range and then land the only place they could, a bare rock.

IMHO This should not even be a dice roll.

Either the air units are wiped out 100% or they get a small chance to escape. And even if they escape is should be like 1 tile away and thus be susceptible to even more counter attacks. It makes no sense that they all of a sudden dominate this bare rock as super defenders.

I DO NOT EXPECT a 58% chance to win with what should be a 99% in real life.

You guys say you want to realism in this game, and I respect that, so I suggest we start by fixing these Land Unit vs. Sole Air Units issues that I see again and again and keep getting frustrated over.

Or do you guys see this some other way? Are these tac bombers something other than what the game play says? These planes were barely able to land on this empty island and did so only because they flew to their max range to attack a couple of undefended transports. That is a viable decision but, like any of these battles, should be liable to a severe counterattack if the opponent, as in this case, has the troops to counter.

Thank you again for all your input. And again please understand that I am reflecting what many people not familiar with this game, as you folks are, would likely feel.

I support you guys and your decisions and only want to help. But if you want others to enjoy this, then I feel (so it's just my opinion) putting a little bit more effort into this game to iron out the final kinks would help make the game accessible to the regular non-genius guy (yes I consider you all to be geniuses in this particular manner )

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Wonderful response. THANK YOU.

I think I keep missing these subtleties - hence my wanting to take a cut at a new manual

For instance, you say, "Attack with 1-2 Art to suppress and at least 4 int-trained or Inf-Elite TO GET +1 Artillery Support"

I have a feeling that it is these types of features that I keep tripping over. Can you please tell me where it is best to look to see these bonuses spelled out?

I can envision myself adding more of these types of examples to the manual because clearly, and I mean SUPER CLEARLY, it is these bonuses (on offense or defense) that are making the difference here !!!

These little bonuses and better understanding the commanders and such, are what makes this game so special.

So I think I will focus my next days of efforts on first making a summary of these bonus and penalties to better understand and convey to others the foundation of this game's gameplay.

In addition to the suggestions you gave (check out the tool tips etc) Please let me know if you have any suggestions for me to put together a nice set of examples and concise summary of these various bonuses/penalties

Cheers

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Now that I read your response again I see that I have all that I need. Thanks.

Like you said, "If you have Inf Conscripts use them in the attack to lead the attacks so they are casualties before your inf-trained."

These types of suggestions are invaluable so I will try to put this all together in a way that would allow a beginner to the game to quickly get a good intuitive feel for how that game play is suppose to work.

I also think I have been conditioned by other games in terms of my expectations and I will do what you said and just go through all the tool tips and that existing manual to see if I could better get to what I am trying to achieve.

Final question on this topic: Are there some oder of battle / loss order types of rules that I over looked?

Why is inf-conscripts losses first? Are they normally lost before int-trained? That would make sense but I just want to be sure.

[JohnnyCat]

UPDATES TO USER MANUAL:

1941_global_command_decision_manual.pdf

Is this the best most current user manual? I am today attempting to add things to it and immediately find myself wondering if I have the correct doc?

And since I think in terms of table-of-contents, if this IS the correct manual, does anyone object to me using it as a base for a new manual and adding a TABLE of CONTENTS?

I also get the impression that some of the tool tips are NOT included in the manual, though I could be mistaken... Either way, my goal is to add some more information (specifically the tool tips but there are other things) to the manual, add a table of contents, and add an entirely new EXAMPLES OF GAME PLAY section/chapter.

I also intend to make a concise version of this manual to augment what the tooltips currently do, because I personally found myself skipping or not noticing the tooltips and, in any case, I believe that having access to more information is not a bad thing as long as it does not get overwhelming. But that is why I feel adding to the manual and making a new concise manual will be effective and not overwhelm..

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Johnny

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Are there some order of battle / loss order types of rules that I over looked?
Inf-Conscripts have a Purchase PU Cost/TUV of 3, being the lowest TUV in a fight they are selected to be removed first.

Are they normally lost before inf-trained?
Yes as per standard TripleA rules.

This Mon-Fri there will be another release so plan for that.

Signing off for the night.

[JohnnyCat]

It is fine

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
As you were not specific, I have spent time looking for the problem, is it Singapore? You cannot place reinforcements there?

If so undo all your placements and it will allow you to place in Singapore.

Im on Windows and have never seen this problem, has it happened before?

[TheDog]

@JohnnyCat
Re the manual, I would say the individually the tool tips contain the most information, as they are "online".

The manual does not contain all the tool tip info, but does present it in a different way. It does list all the Unit Supports which is not in the tool tips.

From a learning curve point of view, printing the UNIT SUPPORTS , currently page 11 is a must.

does anyone object to me using it as a base for a new manual
No, use it as a basis for a new one.

[wc_sumpton]

@johnnycat, @TheDog

Look like there is a disconnect between the history (Game/Show History) and the Action panel. This would suggest that this is a save error, as the reload is consistent in showing the problem.

Cheers...