North Africa - TripleA Module

wc_sumpton

Some xml questions, why so many different infantry, tanks, trucks, etc... All infantry are 2/3/1 their cost may be different, players can buy the same unit at different cost.

<productionRule name="buyItalianInfantry">
  <cost resource="PUs" quantity="2"/>
  <result resourceOrUnit="infantry" quantity="1"/>
</productionRule>

Doing this will help because only 1 unit needs to be defined.

Why are all units considered constructions?

These are just a few.

Cheers...

DoManMacgee

@wc_sumpton That is only partially correct.

Italian Infantry are 2-cost/2-attack/2-defense.

French Infantry are placed and move immediately (despite being owned by the Americans). Additionally, they do not consume supply when fighting like other units do.

I believe all units were designated as Constructions as a band-aid fix due to the nature of this game. There are no ICs ("factories" as we call them in TripleA) here. Rather, units are built in a number of different locations dependent on circumstances:

Most units go in the "Convoy Zones", are staged there for the following round (where they can be attacked by enemy units), and are then deployed to the relevant territory on the first phase of the controlling player's next turn.
Naval Units go in designated locations on the map. I don't remember them all off the top of my head but they are specified in the XML. You cannot but ICs in Sea Zones as far as I'm aware.
Some special case units (the French and land/sea mines) go in a number of locations depending on certain conditions.

beelee

@domanmacgee said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

ou cannot but ICs in Sea Zones as far as I'm aware.

I'm guessing you mean build here. I'm not entirely certain but i think one can. If that's what you meant

Welcome to the site

wc_sumpton

@domanmacgee

Thank you for your kind and quick response!

@domanmacgee said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

Italian Infantry are 2-cost/2-attack/2-defense.

Cost is handled through purchase, differences in attack/defense/movement can be changed through techAdvance, as was done with Japanese Cruiser/Destroyer in GCD '41. The French Units are controlled by German/American, depending, and should be placed in the "unit" folder and shared by both players. Because American can buy both units along with their own, they could be labeled B-Infantry/Tank. Also, a B-Tank would be placed in the British/German folder to represent Sherman/Tiger units. You have matilda/tiger but you have F-tank and not somua U35.

@domanmacgee said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

I believe all units were designated as Constructions as a band-aid fix due to the nature of this game. There are no ICs ("factories" as we call them in TripleA) here. Rather, units are built in a number of different locations dependent on circumstances:

This is what I thought, but is not a true statement, all units can be placed without factory/production units. rulesAttachment has placementAnyTerritory, placementAnySeaZone, placementCapturedTerritory, etc... Also, there is the option "Place in Any Territory". Calling these units construction may cause more problems with limited construction placement on territories.

Restricting unit placement can be governed by unitPlacementRestrictions, unitPlacementOnlyAllowedIn which would need option "Unit Placement Restrictions" set.

Don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to understand why the xml is set the way it is, I'm not saying it's wrong or bad. Just looking for a little understanding, and some different ideas.

Again, welcome here, and thanks for the quick reply!!

Cheers...

DoManMacgee

@beelee said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

@domanmacgee said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

ou cannot but ICs in Sea Zones as far as I'm aware.

I'm guessing you mean build here. I'm not entirely certain but i think one can. If that's what you meant

Welcome to the site

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to go back and give it a try when I have more free time to get back into working on this. We did the bulk of the work that's here so far from September-early-November last year. Work got very busy for both of us after that and we discovered the need for JAVA coding work on the engine, which led us on a wild goose chase that eventually landed here on the forums.

Happy to be aboard! I've been enjoying TripleA/A&A for going-on 20 years now so finally being able to help contribute even a little bit has been a very nice feeling.

beelee

@domanmacgee

Right Arm

I thought I recognized the handle

wc_sumpton

And now back to our regularly scheduled topic...

@VictoryFirst, @DoManMacgee

So how goes the war creating a war? I have a few thoughts, during phase 1 Advance Convoys and 6 Deploy Reinforcements and Assign Convoy Escorts are about controlling movement which can be accomplish with canals and canalAttachment. These can be open and closed to guide movement between convoy zones and their ports and staging areas.

Instead of using the bid to allow the British to setup their convoy zones, just make a 1 use purchase/place step. The bid purchase could go before the player's regular purchase. Bid purchase unit would go into the regular purchase que and be deployed along with other purchased units.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers...

DoManMacgee

@wc_sumpton These are both excellent ideas we hadn't thought of. Will get on it as it sidesteps the problem of needing to work with the main Java engine.

VictoryFirst

@rogercooper said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

@beelee I assume that the little circles on the map are to handle the flanking attack bonus.

Somewhere in the engine the engine there must be a way of splitting the attacking units because that is how amphibious invasions are handled. As engine changes are required anyhow, I would avoid the little circles.

Actuallly the small circles are for the landmines.

VictoryFirst

@RogerCooper @Black_Elk

I really dislike the World War II vX system, their names are confusing and don't exactly tell which version it is unless you read the game notes or open it up. I've still no idea where World War II v4 or v5 come from, I believe v4 is from 1942 2nd edition but I am touching in the dark about v5. I'd prefer to ditch the "World War II" all together and just call stuff "Classic", "Global 1940", "Anniversary 1941", "Zombies" and let the non-A&A games have WWII in their name. Perhaps an idea to create a separate map category called "A&A" or "table-top" so that all these modules are grouped together. I think these board games deserves special attention as most of them are played a lot.

VictoryFirst

@wc_sumpton said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

Some xml questions, why so many different infantry, tanks, trucks, etc... All infantry are 2/3/1 their cost may be different, players can buy the same unit at different cost.

You are right, there are many units, however one advantage for having a separate unit for each unit that is different from the rest, is that it stands out. If the Italian player sees his unit is called "I-infantry" he knows his unit has different stats. If the names are all "infantry", this might go unnoticed.

I don't think that is why we should have so many separate units, but just stating a pro to have this. I am open for discussion. How does techAdvance work?

VictoryFirst

@wc_sumpton said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

This is what I thought, but is not a true statement, all units can be placed without factory/production units. rulesAttachment has placementAnyTerritory, placementAnySeaZone, placementCapturedTerritory, etc... Also, there is the option "Place in Any Territory". Calling these units construction may cause more problems with limited construction placement on territories.
Restricting unit placement can be governed by unitPlacementRestrictions, unitPlacementOnlyAllowedIn which would need option "Unit Placement Restrictions" set.

Thanks, we were having some trouble dealing with unlimited placement. For example, we weren't able to place in other player's territory, only in territories you control. Is there a way around that? That's the reason why each convoy zones consists of two zones so that both players of an alliance can place units directly in the convoy zones.

We have created a separate player called "Mines", who buys landmines for each nation and can subsequently place them directly in the circled-shaped territories. This is also a bandage-fix like solution and it would be great if there are other solutions for this that work better.

Also, naval units don't obey the construction placement territories, they ignore them completely and can only be placed in sea zones ADJACENT to territories YOU control. However this is not true for Africa, there are some sea zones specifically designated for naval placement.

EDIT Important to note, making each unit a construction was not to make sure units can be placed, but rather to LIMIT the total number of units allowed on the board. This was done in the G40 Expansion module and we have kindly copied it to use in our game @beelee . It works quite well.

TheDog

@victoryfirst
This list might help, scroll down a little.

It shows the TripleA map approximates to A&A map

https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3741/curated-best-top-maps-triplea-guides

VictoryFirst

@thedog That list is very helpful indeed, thanks! I'm going to bookmark it :grinning_face:

Black_Elk

Yeah I have no idea really where the v3, v4 etc World War II nomenclature came into it. Veq made all those shot calls I think when restoring tripleA, after the dark times when the site went down for like a year with no boards to speak of. Prior to that all the maps had names similar to what you're suggesting as I recall. Production units were called IPCs etc. Using the internet archive for the Way back machine might be able to pull up what the old labelling was, but that was in the old nabble and sourceforge days I think. I think the warclub actually has more consistency over time, among the main sites, since that one goes back to like 2005 I'm pretty sure, but I know there was a migration there at one point as well. Probably in like the late aughts. I can't remember but there were a couple.net and .orgs in there. I can't really remember em all, but the boards migrated a couple times for sure and a couple big resets where like everything was just sorta lost from the old forums. When all the lights came back on all the maps were separated off into a depot, with those sorts of names and the restyled map designs that Bung created for some of the more recent boards. I think the current era goes back to 2012 with this https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/17032/triplea-map-for-global-1940-alpha-final?page=1

Panther was around and might recall better than me. That was an era where RL and work was just grinding me down to nothing. I didn't pick it up again till a few years ago, mostly on account playing a bunch of A&AO for a few years there, and the pandemic freeing up a bunch of time hehe.

I agree though it's sorta confusing, and definitely stacks up the Ws section making it harder to find stuff. Not sure what's best, on the git there's a bunch of stuff but then it's easy to get lost in there. I also have to check those lists usually, or Roger's logs to get my bearings and remember what stuff was called, cause he's got those extra screens and notes for a quite few. I had forgotten a couple, like that cool WW2 map that dagon made with all the trenches and such for the oceans. It's a little high vibrancy, but when I ran it on blends looked very nice I thought. And of course some of those Hepps maps and the other favs. For WW2 definitely quite a few scenarios to choose from.

I like North Africa myself, seems simple to remember

Black_Elk

ps. here's a quickie relief if you want something to riff on. Basically I just did a marble pattern fill at like 30% opacity for the land. You can change it to a topographical looking thing by finding a terrain type image and resizing stuff in sections. Like doing Spain or Italy and kinda stretching stuff till it fits the warp, or something similar for the ocean area, with a border fade across like 3 pixels. I was just eyeballing it at 50% view.

Looks like so, basically the default Hex but with like 30% opacity makes em display slightly lighter through the pattern. Could be anything really, whatever looks cool. But just for a bare bones looked ok to me at 1600p.

Screenshot 2025-01-29 012208.png

Here is the same busted into tiles

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O5ssVhzoC3F4z1l7crvh1dZJPln08klp/view?usp=sharing

I think you'd just need to switch 'has Relief' from false to true in the map.props

VictoryFirst

@black_elk Oh man THAT looks cool! Thank you so much!

wc_sumpton

@victoryfirst said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

Thanks, we were having some trouble dealing with unlimited placement. For example, we weren't able to place in other player's territory, only in territories you control. Is there a way around that? That's the reason why each convoy zones consists of two zones so that both players of an alliance can place units directly in the convoy zones.

I understand this, which I think is a good idea. Units then should have their placements limited to these areas and the staging areas during phase 6. The only units that can be deployed after purchase phase 2 are German subs to SZ 1, which if connected by a canal to Tunis Convoy G, will allow the placement of that unit.

	<!-- <connection t1="SOK-ZEL" t2="Sokna"/>
	<connection t1="SOK-ZEL" t2="Zella"/> -->
	<connection t1="Sardinia" t2="Sea Zone 9"/>
	<connection t1="Sea Zone 1" t2="Tunis Convoy G"/> <!-- Canal Submarine deployment  -->
	<connection t1="Sea Zone 1" t2="Sea Zone 2"/>
	<connection t1="Sea Zone 1" t2="Sea Zone 3"/>
	<!-- <connection t1="Sea Zone 1" t2="Spain"/> -->
	<connection t1="Sea Zone 2" t2="Sea Zone 3"/>
	<connection t1="Sea Zone 3" t2="Sea Zone 4"/>
	<!-- <connection t1="Sea Zone 3" t2="Spain"/>
	<connection t1="Sea Zone 3" t2="Spanish Morocco"/> -->

I've commented out all mine zone connection because it seems easier to work without worrying about them right now. Also any connection to an impassable territory was commented. I added connection for canals with comments and commented out connections between convoy zones.

    <!-- Canal used to deploy German sub to SZ 1 -->
    <attachment name="canalAttachmentGermanSub" attachTo="Sea Zone 1" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.CanalAttachment" type="territory">
      <option name="canalName" value="German Sub"/>
      <option name="landTerritories" value="Oran Convoy US:Tunis Convoy G"/> <!-- Canal will never be open for use -->
	  <option name="excludedUnits" value="none"/> <!-- All units must be validated block Air and Subs from freely using canal -->
    </attachment>
    <attachment name="canalAttachmentGermanSub" attachTo="Tunis Convoy G" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.CanalAttachment" type="territory">
      <option name="canalName" value="German Sub"/>
      <option name="landTerritories" value="Oran Convoy US:Tunis Convoy G"/>
	  <option name="excludedUnits" value="none"/>
    </attachment>

@victoryfirst said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

EDIT Important to note, making each unit a construction was not to make sure units can be placed, but rather to LIMIT the total number of units allowed on the board. This was done in the G40 Expansion module and we have kindly copied it to use in our game @beelee . It works quite well.

As I scan through G40 Expansion, I see construction used for Harbor and building units, also for control units. But the tanks and subs are not done so (I could be seeing the wrong game, I can get so confused! ).

Cheers...

wc_sumpton

@victoryfirst said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

I don't think that is why we should have so many separate units, but just stating a pro to have this. I am open for discussion. How does techAdvance work?

techAdvance is used to change some value for the same unit from different players.
First define:

 <technology>
 <technologies>
        <!-- I try to use two letter abv. prior to the tech name because the tech screen is small -->
	<techname name="TT Truck Transport" tech="mechanizedInfantry"/> <!-- Different name to appear on screen -->
	<techname name="VF Vichy French"/> <!-- Stop the German player from moving these units -->
	<techname name="BA British Armor"/> <!-- British LightArmor to attach, defend and move -->
	<techname name="IA Italian Army"/> <!-- Correct Italian Infantry attack -->
 </technologies>
<!-- Because you are not using the Tech system, <playerTech> section can be ignored -->
</technology>

techAttachment is still used to attach mechanizedInfantry, but not the custom techs which must be done with conditions, triggers and techAbility attachment.

    <!-- Condition to attach player to tech -->
    <attachment name="conditionAttachmenGermanTech" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
      <option name="techs" value="VF Vichy French" count="1"/>
    </attachment>
    <!-- Trigger to activate tech -->
    <attachment name="triggerAttachmentGermonTech" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
       <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentAlwaysTrue"/>
    	<option name="tech" value="VF Vichy French"/>
    	<option name="uses" value="1"/>
    	<option name="when" value="before:britishSuezPruchase"/>	<!-- I created 3 different prepurchase for British, so I connect to the first one -->
    </attachment>
    <!-- Tech ability to define tech -->
    <attachment name="techAbilityAttachment" attachTo="VF Vichy French" javaClass="TechAbilityAttachment" type="technology">
      <option name="movementBonus" value="-2:LightArmor"/>
      <option name="movementBonus" value="-1:FrenchInfantry"/>
    </attachment>

Hope this is helpful

Cheers...

Cernel

@victoryfirst said in North Africa - TripleA Module:

@RogerCooper @Black_Elk

I really dislike the World War II vX system, their names are confusing and don't exactly tell which version it is unless you read the game notes or open it up. I've still no idea where World War II v4 or v5 come from, I believe v4 is from 1942 2nd edition but I am touching in the dark about v5. I'd prefer to ditch the "World War II" all together and just call stuff "Classic", "Global 1940", "Anniversary 1941", "Zombies" and let the non-A&A games have WWII in their name.

I guess you download those games only and don't care about the TripleA originals? By TripleA originals I mean maps like World At War, Domination, Total World War, 270BC or Jurassic.

However, there are people who do not download only the "World War II" (meaning THOSE games, not WW2 games in general) maps, so one of the points of having all such games starting exactly with "World War II" is to assure that they will be grouped together when you are in the interface to selct games. This is one of the reason it is much advisable for this game to be called "World War II North Africa - Rommel Scenario" instead of "North Africa - Rommel Scenario" (and I would actually call it "World War II North Africa - Rommel 1942 Scenario" if having "Rommel" is a must).

Think about someone who downloads every single game from the repository and have them all listed when selecting the game. He or she is going to have over 200 games in the list.