💥 Another World v AI - Official Thread

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I've started a few games and have a few preliminary observations.

Population
I'm not sure what Population as a resource really adds to the game, it's just some extra annoying thing to track. In the original version population units were actually an interesting resource to manage because you have to move them to where you're planning to build infrastructures, and there were tradeoffs between moving them to the capital for cash, or building stuff. It was quite a different thing from just a numerical resource.

As it stands now, I'm not sure they add anything in terms of interesting decisions or tradeoffs to make. Maybe that will come with more play and I'll have an a-ha moment where I can do clever things with population, but at the moment I'm not seeing it. In my own attempt at an AI friendly hack I just got rid of pop as a simplification.

Politics
Disabling politics laves everyone as Uncommitted, with no apparent way to go to war, so you can't actually fight anybody.

Frankly in a game optimised for play against the AI I'd have thought total war from the start would make the most sense. In fact, I don't see the attraction of political alliance categories anyway, it's just a faf. Human players are perfectly capable of making deals, and then backstabbing each other without having to fill out bureaucratic paperwork and wait for red tape to do it, but at least I'd like the option of just going for total war from the start.

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Re Population units, the AI does a very poor job of putting the Population units in the right place to do anything useful, so as this map is v AI, better to have a Population resource.

Politics
Is a structure where you can allow your enemies and so called allies to do limited things, depending on their current label like War, Hostile, Allied, Aligned etc.
canMoveLandUnitsOverOwnedLand
canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand
canLandAirUnitsOnOwnedLand
upkeepCost
alliancesCanChainTogether
isDefaultWarPosition
canTakeOverOwnedTerritory
givesBackOriginalTerritories
canMoveIntoDuringCombatMove
canMoveThroughCanals
rocketsCanFlyOver
But if all you want is all out war then just make all the players at war.

But if playing with war v everyone, it would not be much fun as a single player.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I can see the AI is able to cope with a resource, but I'm not sure what having it at all adds to the game. It might as well go, IMHO.

I get the idea of politics, but at the moment if you disable it there is no game. You can't fight anyone. It's permanent peace. You'd have to use the editor, or is that the idea? It takes ages with this many factions. If so, you could just do that with politics enabled. The flag seems superfluous as it is at the moment.

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Yes the politics flag is superfluous.

To change all the factions to war, just find and replace all the
Uncommitted
to
War

but only for the <relationship block of code, about 180 lines, this is easy with Notedpad++ find and replace within a selection block of text.

	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Archenland" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Flemma" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Gilcrest" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Jandice" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Kallela" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Lancia" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Loch_Island" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Lorenzia" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Maflemia" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="Uncommitted" player1="Aquella" player2="Malliton" roundValue="1"/>
	<relationship type="War" player1="Aquella" player2="none" roundValue="1"/>

eg. Hopefully your Notepad like editor can do similar.

Simon Hibbs

@thedog I did this for my own, much more primitive attempt at an AI friendly hack. Basically just starting universal war and getting rid of population unit spawning and requirements.

Is it possible for the politics flag, or any flag to trigger total war or change the default status? Currently I have two variants of my hack, one with politics and the other set to total war.

What is it about unit costs that makes it easier for the AI to make reasonable decisions? I can see how stacking limits might help, or is that motivated differently?

TheDog

@simon-hibbs
Is it possible for the politics flag, or any flag to trigger total war or change the default status?
Yes, you can write a Trigger that will execute a sequence of political changes.
As an example in 1941 Global Command Decision it has this as an option

But you will need something like

<attachment foreach="$All-Players$" name="triggerAttachment_Notify__USA-Mexico_@All-Players@" attachTo="@All-Players@" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
		<option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachment_Notify__USA-Mexico_@All-Players@"/>	<!-- see notification.properties -->
		<option name="notification" value="Notify_USA-Mexico_@All-Players@"/> 
		<option name="relationshipChange" value="USA:Neutrals:Open-Border:Closed-Border"/>
		<option name="players" value="@All-Players@"/>
		<option name="when" value="before:@All-Players@CombatMove"/>
	</attachment>

Stacking rules just forces the player and the AI from overstacking and doing crazy things like stacking 42 Tactical Bombers in Brazil for no good reason.

Unit cost is complicated and is clever.
Units are grouped into Fodder, Attack, Defence for Land, Sea and Air groupings. Its more complicated but you get the idea.

One unit that costs too much or too little will skew the purchase formula.

For a simple PU cost I use Attack+Defence+Movement, for most of my maps or a variant. You must add in Support variables and other unit bonuses.

RogerCooper

@thedog It doesn't hurt to create max build limits for units to prevent overuse by humans or AI.

TheDog

Latest version v010 ready for download.

Ship PU prices redone
Merchant Ship renamed to Convoy
Help for the AI to buy multi turn ships
Ship hulls have a move of 2, so the AI will buy them, but are stopped from moving, see below
New territory sea used to stop the ship hulls from moving

Link to 1st post that has;
Latest map download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4229/another-world-v-ai-official-thread

wc_sumpton

@thedog

Lines 42160 and 42192 should read '$All-Air-Targetable$' as they say '$All-Air$-Targetable' the map does not load.

Cheers...

TheDog

Latest version v015 ready for download.

Air units are cheaper
.
Ship PU prices redone
Merchant Ship renamed to Convoy
Help for the AI to buy multi turn ships
Ship hulls have a move of 2, so the AI will buy them, but are stopped from moving, see below
New territory sea used to stop the ship hulls from moving

.
Link to 1st post that has;
Latest map download link
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/4229/another-world-v-ai-official-thread

TheDog

@Simon-Hibbs
If you are having problems with the latest versions of TripleA (as I am)

For AI testing Im using
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/tag/2.7.15256

Currently I have 7 versions of TripleA on my PC
This is old but is still valid, if you did not know how to do it
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3724/how-to-have-triplea-2-5-2-6-installed-at-the-same-time

Simon Hibbs

@thedog Apologies, I have limited time for gaming and such at the moment. Visiting family. Thanks for the info, I'll take a look in the new year, or earlier if I get the chance.

RogerCooper

@rogercooper When I downloaded this into my downloaded maps folder, it did not appear in the selection list. I resolved it by eliminating the triple folder situation. I think the map.yml file was too deeply buried.

TheDog

@rogercooper
Thanks I have reposted the zip in the 1st post.