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    Flames and Steel (official thread)

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Maps & Mods
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    • K
      KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators
      last edited by

      image.jpeg

      What Claude had to say about territory names:


      Renaming Pomerania to West Prussia: I’d advise against it. Your map’s Pomerania sits on the coast just northeast of Berlin and west of Danzig. That’s the Stettin–Köslin area, which really was the Prussian province of Pomerania. West Prussia was the Vistula region around Danzig, Thorn and Bromberg, south of Danzig and west of Warsaw. That’s exactly where your West Prussia territory already is. Only one of your names is debatable: the coastal strip between Danzig and Koenigsberg (Elbing, Marienburg) was West Prussian before 1920 and became part of East Prussia from 1920. For a 1941 map, “East Prussia” is right.


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      • K
        KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators
        last edited by

        image.jpeg

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        Note that Britain's list is now replaced with some new techs. "Raj" gives one colonial militia for each of India's three most valuable territories. Increased Indian Army means those territories now produce 2 colonial militia each turn.

        image.jpeg

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        Marines (America Pacific) can be built from the start. America Atlantic cannot research Superfortress or B-52.

        image.jpeg

        That's it for the tech list for now. Expect this list to become out-of-date soon after being posted, however.

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        • M
          malmessi @KurtGodel7
          last edited by

          @KurtGodel7 said:

          On TripleA, I will sometimes be a spectator for Total World War (TWW). I saw the exact same type of thinking which led to Totaler Krieg. Terrain effects. Lots of special rules. I've been told that TWW takes about 2 - 3 times longer to play than Domination 1914 No Man's Land (NML). But, a game of TWW doesn't give you any more strategic depth than NML. TWW asks for double or triple the player's time, without providing anything more in exchange for all that extra time.

          Please. let me disagree.
          TWW is the best game on TripleA at the moment. I have played a lot of games and we (me and 2 italian friends) all agree that TWW is the top.
          Maybe there is soem Player Enforced Rule that requires edit mode nbut this is a techical issue of the engine.
          I strongly suggest you to give TWW a try, I'm offering to help you, you will appreciate it !
          Terrain effects are realistic and add no extra brain-effort, you just have to use BATT CALC before every battle, but I use B.C. every time even when playing other games.
          About special rules, I think that tech in TWW are easier than in Flames&Steel (if I undesrtood F&S tech rules) and also the part about airplanes, in TWW it is like in any other TripleA game so the effort to understand rules regarding air battles in F&S is higher than in TWW. In TWW you just have 4 standard fighting type of planes instead of basic 1/2 in other games.

          Please let me know if you want to try TWW and you won't be disappointed, trust me.

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          • C
            Cernel Moderators Lobby Moderators @KurtGodel7
            last edited by

            @KurtGodel7 How about if I make a full set of names changes for the Great German Realm and you ask Claude about what it thinks on the whole new set of names compared to the current one for 1941 Germany? Would that be feasible? (I mean not name per name but all together.)

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            • SchulzS
              Schulz
              last edited by

              AI does not look good at drawing maps, territories, and naming things. Like Krakow being connected to Konigsberg through the northeast while bypassing Warsaw makes no sense at this map's scale. Or Kiev bordering Krakow.

              Also, for consistency, it is better to name every land territory with its biggest city, like Prague instead of Bohemia. Having impassable Pripet Marshes would be great, too.

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              • K
                KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators
                last edited by

                Recent changes to Flames and Steel:

                1. SPCs have been nerfed. They now produce 1 special unit every two turns. (Or one every four turns if it's Superfortresses.)
                2. Speer's industrialization has been nerfed. An SPC produces a free Panther once every two turns.
                3. SPC maxes have been changed. When the U.S. got chopped in half it gained +1 to the SPC limit. Britain and Germany have now each gained +1 to the limit as well. The new limits are these:
                  America Atlantic: 3
                  Britain: 2
                  USSR:3
                  Germany: 5
                  Japan: 3
                  America Pacific: 2
                4. Bomber stats have been changed, as per @cernel 's way of thinking. The final version of the Flying Fortress has 4 hitpoints, compared to 3 each for the Liberator and the Lancaster. The Flying Fortress and Liberator have an air defense value of 2, compared to 1 for the Lancaster. The Liberator has a range of 10, compared to 8 for the other two. The Lancaster does 5 PUs of damage for strategic bombing raids, compared to 4 PUs for the other two. The Lancaster has Window (-1 to interception value for each enemy air), the other two do not.
                5. Bombers can no longer be mixed nation for strategic bombing raids. Therefore, American bombers can no longer benefit from Window.
                6. Nerf to late game air techs, most notably for Germany and the U.S. German jets are still the best in the late game, but not to the same degree they had been. American jets lose their afterburner tech. America loses its Stratofortress tech. German flying wings are now a little easier to kill (-1 hitpoint). Germany's swept back wings tech is now nerfed. Also, a small nerf to the final version of the King Tiger.
                7. There is a player-selectable option for the game to start with some tech already researched. Japan gets Kate and Long Lance torpedoes, Germany gets the Stuka, the USSR gets the KV-1, Britain gets radar, America Pacific gets the Dauntless dive bomber and the Norden bombsight, America Atlantic gets the Norden bombsight and the Flying Fortress.
                8. Alterations to the Pacific map to create more accurate island shapes.
                9. Bombardment is limited to one bombardment shot per unit unloaded. (As per Anniversary Edition rules.) There is now a tech which allows this to be upgraded to two bombardment shots per unit unloaded.
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                • K
                  KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators @Cernel
                  last edited by

                  @Cernel said:

                  @KurtGodel7 How about if I make a full set of names changes for the Great German Realm and you ask Claude about what it thinks on the whole new set of names compared to the current one for 1941 Germany? Would that be feasible? (I mean not name per name but all together.)

                  Yeah I'll take you up on this.

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                  • K
                    KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators @Schulz
                    last edited by

                    @Schulz said:

                    AI does not look good at drawing maps, territories, and naming things. Like Krakow being connected to Konigsberg through the northeast while bypassing Warsaw makes no sense at this map's scale. Or Kiev bordering Krakow.

                    Also, for consistency, it is better to name every land territory with its biggest city, like Prague instead of Bohemia. Having impassable Pripet Marshes would be great, too.

                    Map changes, including some border changes and the creation of the Pripet Marshes.

                    image.jpeg

                    As for naming conventions: I don't require 100% consistency. I am fine with naming some territories after cities, such as Berlin, and other territories after regions, such as Bohemia.

                    image.jpeg

                    The Pacific after its changes.

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                    • K
                      KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators @Vendetta
                      last edited by KurtGodel7

                      @Vendetta said:

                      @KurtGodel7
                      Hilfswilliger was the name for the local auxiliaries that Germany recruited in Russia, would be a good fit for "Crush communism."

                      Panzerschreck for Advanced Panzerfaust?

                      Sturmgewehr for assault rifle

                      The B-52 is way too far ahead of the timeline, didn't enter service until the 1950s. Use the B-45 Tornado, that was America's earliest jet bomber.

                      Go 229 is the flying wing model.

                      Name changes for tech:
                      Hilfswilliger has been added as a description to crush communism
                      Panzerschreck was not an advanced Panzerfaust. It was a somewhat different line of weapons development. That being said, I changed the names, such that Panzerfaust is now the 60 meter range version of the weapon, and Advanced Panzerfaust is now the 150 meter range version of the weapon.
                      I changed the Assault Rifle label to include the Strumgewehr label.
                      I eliminated the B-52 tech. Partly for game play purposes: the Superfortress is a good enough unit as it is, and does not need a jet engine upgrade.
                      I designated the flying wing as an Ho 229. Either Go 229 or Ho 229 is a correct designation. I chose Ho 229 because it's more widely recognized, and because it gives credit to the Horten brothers who'd designed it.

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                      • K
                        KurtGodel7 Lobby Moderators @malmessi
                        last edited by

                        @malmessi said:

                        @KurtGodel7 said:

                        On TripleA, I will sometimes be a spectator for Total World War (TWW). I saw the exact same type of thinking which led to Totaler Krieg. Terrain effects. Lots of special rules. I've been told that TWW takes about 2 - 3 times longer to play than Domination 1914 No Man's Land (NML). But, a game of TWW doesn't give you any more strategic depth than NML. TWW asks for double or triple the player's time, without providing anything more in exchange for all that extra time.

                        Please. let me disagree.
                        TWW is the best game on TripleA at the moment. I have played a lot of games and we (me and 2 italian friends) all agree that TWW is the top.
                        Maybe there is soem Player Enforced Rule that requires edit mode nbut this is a techical issue of the engine.
                        I strongly suggest you to give TWW a try, I'm offering to help you, you will appreciate it !
                        Terrain effects are realistic and add no extra brain-effort, you just have to use BATT CALC before every battle, but I use B.C. every time even when playing other games.
                        About special rules, I think that tech in TWW are easier than in Flames&Steel (if I undesrtood F&S tech rules) and also the part about airplanes, in TWW it is like in any other TripleA game so the effort to understand rules regarding air battles in F&S is higher than in TWW. In TWW you just have 4 standard fighting type of planes instead of basic 1/2 in other games.

                        Please let me know if you want to try TWW and you won't be disappointed, trust me.

                        To my mind, a player's time and attention are a finite resource. Yes, there are some areas where my map is more complex than a normal TripleA map would be. But that means that, where at all possible, I need to say no to any additional sources of complexity.

                        I appreciate your offer to play TWW. I can't take you up on that now, because all my TripleA time is going into Flames and Steel.

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                        • V
                          Vendetta @Schulz
                          last edited by Vendetta

                          @Schulz said:

                          AI does not look good at drawing maps, territories, and naming things. Like Krakow being connected to Konigsberg through the northeast while bypassing Warsaw makes no sense at this map's scale. Or Kiev bordering Krakow.

                          Also, for consistency, it is better to name every land territory with its biggest city, like Prague instead of Bohemia. Having impassable Pripet Marshes would be great, too.

                          image.jpeg

                          The main issue I see with the map at present is that the borders don't conform with the outlines of the pre-war countries at all. Try to picture how things would look here If you were to dial the clock back to 1938. Who would get Silesia, for instance? Czechoslovakia, Germany, Poland? It's impossible to answer because that province is drawn over territory belonging to all three of them, and whoever you give it to leaves the other two messed up.

                          Or why I brought up the Posen vs. West Prussia example... Posen is Poznań, a city that was in Polish hands before the war started. But German Silesia actually extended past it to the south, between Posen and Bohemia. West Prussia is the territory on your map that's above Silesia, where Posen ought to be. And yes, when you're drawing the provinces at this scale, Danzig and West Prussia essentially belong in the same space, so you should probably just be using one or the other. So relabel West Prussia as Posen, and make Posen something like Brandenburg. But Brandenburg belongs above Saxony, not east of it... kind of a headache.

                          image.jpeg

                          Meanwhile you've got Königsberg separate from East Prussia, but it's shaped so that its hooking down behind Warsaw, between Warsaw and Polish owned Bialystok. And Kiev is that oblong shape that cuts in Bialystok and Lwów, which was also Polish. And should Kiev really be a border province that Germany invades on turn 1 anyway?

                          image.jpeg

                          And then Austria is just a squarish blob and it's fully east of Bavaria, when it should be extending between Bavaria and Venice.

                          The bottom line here is that there are too many issues to solve in just a couple of spot fixes. Figuring out how to draw the borders is just not something that AI is good at. Even with terrible art skills, if you spend a few nights on drawing things out yourself, you're going to end up doing a better job than it just because you have a spatial sense of where things should go in relation to other things that AI really struggles with. What AI might be able to do is take a map where you've hand drawn crude outlines of the borders with a black marker in MS Paint, and polish it up - refine the shaping and re-render it with the better quality outline style your current map has.

                          At the end of the day though, it's up to you what standard you want to hold yourself to. A map can still play well even if it doesn't look right, and if it plays well right now, I'd understand if you decided a substantial redo would be more trouble than it's worth.

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