Fallen Empire
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@alkexr Happy Nemzeti ΓΌnnep.
the new addition to the Map making process seems cool. Complex... but cool. I look forward to trying it out in the near future.
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@alkexr Once you feel it is complete. You should repost this in the Map Making Category we can pin it near the top. Nice stuff!
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@prastle As soon as I get feedback that it actually works as it should.
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Progress report #6 (Part 2)
The relief map is slowly but steadily covering more and more of the map. Some of the vast neutral lands and the central area of the map (especially around the Piratebay) saw progress in the past two weeks. In the meantime, the unit list of several factions started looking less empty. The units of the Pirate Federation in particular are more or less finalized.
The Pirate Federation
Pirates were a headache for merchants even at the pinnacle of the Empire's might, but in the anarchy after the Fall there was nothing to oppose them. With the unscrupulous amounts of wealth they amassed as a consequence the richest and most influential captains in Hazehaven soon forced the rest into submission, and started extorting tribute and recruiting sailors from nearby cities. They lack the disciplined land armies needed to hold on to vast swaths of land, but their fearless sailors feel really at home on the seas, and with their dreaded fleets they seek to rule the waves, the coasts and all the riches those provide!
- Pirate: foot units with 2 movement. 2 attack, 1 defense, with an additional 2 attack when attacking from the sea.
- Brigand: foot units with 2 movement. 2 attack, 2 defense in most terrain. In hills and woods, they gain +1 power.
- Assassin: support units with 2 movement. 3 attack, 1 defense. They can try to assassinate other support units when attacking with a power of 2. In settlements they gain +1 power.
- Bombard: built with technology from an alchemist they captured, these primitive cannons only have 1 attack and 2 defense, rendering them mostly useless in a battle. But they have 3 siege against fortifications, furthermore they get +1 power in settlements and +2 in fortified terrain, making them the ideal choice for taking down heavily fortified positions. Support unit.
- Bloodparrot: little is known about these beasts aside from their insatiable bloodthirst and their hatred of mages, whom they flock and tear apart upon sight. Some speculate they were created by a careless experiment of a witch. Flying units with 4 movement, 2 attack and 1 defense (in normal and air battles alike). They also have 1 assassinate when attacking.
- Hemiolia: light, fast galleys for overtaking heavier ships or for river navigation. 3 movement ship with 2 attack and 1 defense, +1 in rivers. 1 transport capacity.
- Hulk: the ship that makes the Pirate Federation truly formidable, with a massive 6 coastal bombardment power. Landing pirates assisted by bombarding hulks can tear down coastal defenses with ease. They have 2 movement, 3 attack and 4 defense (+1 on open waters). They can also shoot at flying units when defending with a power of 1. They can transport 3 land units and carry 1 air unit.
- Fireship: 2 movement, 2 attack, 2 defense ships designed to crash into the enemy fleet while on fire. They have the berserk ability, meaning they die instantly, but get 3 rolls.
That's it for today, if you have any ideas, please share it, nothing is final yet. Ideas for heroes are especially welcome. Actually... I don't want to just leave you with nothing but a wall of text:
The area around the Piratebay, with the newly generated territory names"For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air."
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@alkexr Thumbs UP! Whats a Gork?
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@prastle didn't know it had a meaning lol
EDIT: I'm open to suggestions for territory names, and please point out if any name sounds stupid or un-English-y. It looks easy to come up with fantasy names. And it is, for the first 100
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@alkexr Interesting tool. Any chance you know some Java instead of C#? They are pretty similar. Only reason I ask is it would be much easier to integrate it as an optional step in the map creator if it was written in Java.
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@redrum If I did, I would have used that, of course. I want to learn java at some point, but don't expect a java version of my tools in the near future.
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A Big Announcement
There will be no progress reports any more.
When I announced this map back in January, the goal was to get feedback. So I decided to show off parts of the map that were almost perfectly complete. There are three main problems with this approach. First, it's pretty hard to give meaningful feedback on some pictures designed primarily to be shown off. Second, this more or less forced me into a very suboptimal development process - polishing parts of the map to near perfection while ignoring the rest. Third, and most important, this gives the impression that I actually know what I'm doing. It's just meaningless perfectionism, lack of willingness to share something incomplete, imperfect, that I'm working on.
So I think the best way to adress this problem is to release an early alpha version.
At the moment, the map is not ready even for an early alpha - I don't actually know which files belong where and where the latest version is, not talking about the map creation tools integrated into it. It's a mess. That needs no be cleared up. Also, there are some placeholders. Those need to be cleared up too.
So here is the roadmap. I will write posts about several major planned features that I didn't introduce or implement yet. Maybe brainstorm some ideas about these. In the meantime I clear up the mess. Don't forget that Alagaesia is the top priority until I release 1.0, so this might take a while. Then I release the alpha version, alongside with all the development resources here in this thread. This will hopefully give you more ammunition for feedback.
But images are so much better at sparking imagination than words.
"For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air."
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Scope and size look awesome. Much like the tantalizing morsels you have provided in the past it sparks the appetite to see the grand scheme.
Looking forward to seeing the alpha when it is ready.
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@alkexr Makes sense. The map looks really cool, is it based on anything or did you come up with it completely from scratch? Also looking at it I assume it doesn't wrap around east to west?
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@redrum From scratch, no wrap.
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@alkexr Nice. One thing that jumps out is given the size of the map as well as general player preferences, you probably want to consider focusing on a 2 alliance version of the map not just FFA. As it will probably be very difficult to get much of a player base on a FFA this large as it will probably on average last 20+ rounds.
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@alkexr Making a map from scratch is really a challenge. Not only in a technical sense. My experience is that it is hard in the sense of enduring the process, trying to see the end of the tunnel and keeping the motivation alive, while doing a lot of very monotone work. But it is awesome and rewarding when the map is done enough to be playable, as you probably already have experienced! (Even though I guess that we mapmakers all also have a bunch of unfinished maps/map concepts in our drawers
)I am confident that you can make Fallen Empire playable, as the map seems so far along in regards to graphics and concept. And we are here to help, just as we are here to give moral support
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@redrum While @redrum is correct about the fact that the FFA gang is small and that big FFA are challenging for PBF and near impossible for live gaming, I instead suggest you to have this map as FFA only, not even making a 1v1, as TA is lacking sound FFA maps and I believe that it is better a map being FFA only or 1v1 only, as it is lame to recycle a same map for totally different stuff (the only case in which I think it is cool having multiple games per map is when each one is representing a different starting point in time, like in v3 1941 and 1942).
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@cernel It is lame to recycle maps, but it is efficient.
@redrum I definitely can include a 2-alliance version, but I can't guarantee it will be as polished / balanced as the FFA. I mean, like, the very first design goal is that primary focus is on FFA.
Also, the motivation behind this map is what @cernel pointed out: TA is lacking on the genuine (maybe even 4X-y leaning) FFA front. We, with a group of friends usually work around this by hacking non-FFA maps.
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@alkexr In all likelihood a 12 player FFA would never get played, never mind on a scale such as this. Might want to bear that in mind for whatever the envisioned playable version is intended to be.
But at the end of the day... follow your own vision first. The rest of humanity be damned.
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@hepps said in Fallen Empire:
a 12 player FFA would never get played
I would rephrase that as "you won't ever have 12 human players for a single map". Some of the players are meant to be played by AI. And look at Large Middle Earth: it has a FFA game option. Just how stupid that is both lore-wise and balance-wise. Yet at least one person reported to have won (not just played, won) it with almost all players versus AI. That map has 17 players, and I can't fathom how it is possible to win with half of them. It probably took quite a few tries.
So no, I'm not really worried that this map won't be played ever. And as @Frostion said:
we mapmakers all also have a bunch of unfinished maps/map concepts in our drawers
There's plenty of time for more maps later. The rest of humanity can sigh in relief.
"For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air."
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@alkexr Yup. Was just saying. Would be sad to see a nice dynamic map that falls into obscurity because it can never get enough players.
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Build it and they will come, especially if it's fun.
I think a map like this might make a dedicated FFA thread useful at some point. A location where FFA players can setup and schedule games. Since one of the biggest FFA hurdles is timing. Having the right players logged into the lobby at the same time and all still being available to play.
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