Labyrinth - Official Thread
-
@Frostion
Silly of me to forget to mention that is was a new map! Here is a teaser screenshot of the beginning:
Yes there will be hero and retainer upgrades - that's the three tier leveling system I mentioned. Not quite as massive as your Warcraft map, but similar in that regard.
This is a solo map but of course it effectively has two players: the Hero and the hidden/unplayable Labyrinth (which I call Maze in the xml for short, although this map is a true labyrinth, not a maze). So at the beginning of each Hero phase there is a Randomization step that determines at that point what the hero will be walking into. Thus it really is different every time you play!
Also notice the shop (the blue-roofed building). These are scattered throughout the labyrinth but you can buy items and hire retainers only when you are on a shop territory! Also in the screenshot to the left you can spot a cave - one of the "events" is to explore that cave. You may find something useful, you may waste your time...it's random!
I'm using four different resources on this map: PUs, Gold, XP, and Resolve.
The game's one and only PU is used at the very beginning for character selection. After that its all gold, xp, and resolve. Of course the gold is for purchasing/hiring at shops. XP is for levelling. Resolve is...well, when you run out your will to continue is just gone and you lose - so do try to get to the center of the Labyrinth before your resolve is gone!I've still got a few issues I am working out but hopefully it will be ready for roll out in the next week or two.
-
Looks and sounds totally awesome! Looks very impressive for a number 2 map of yours.
I see that the Hero unit/units lack shadows that would fit match with the other graphics that seems to have shadows.
I could try to make some nice matching shadows if you want. If so, send me a link to the unit image files or maybe the entire map and I will try.
Also, is it intentional that a boat in the shown sea territories should have connections to the middle inland land territory? This makes it possible to load/unload from that sea territory to that land territory.
No matter what, when you make borders (as part of your map making process) you should always keep in mind, that you want to be ready to redo some "mistakes" that you identify later. I have learned this the hard way. It can be petty challenging, sometimes nearly impossible, to redo borders if one does not always keep backups and other files saves and ready.
-
sounds cool, hope it works like you want it too.
-
@SilverBullet Thanks!
@Frostion That would be fantastic if you can help! I'll add you to the github repo I have so you can access all the files
The boat there in the screenshot is just there for flavor...it represents your character being dropped off at the entrance to the labyrinth. That first middle territory there with the shop and the two obelisks is the starting spot for the map. I really don't have anything against sea units, I just have yet to create a map that uses them lol :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
-
hopefully it gets placed in the depository because i dont do manual loads, i dont mess with files/folders, i am still eagerly waiting for Cernels new version of 270BC to hit the download list.
-
@SilverBullet No worries I'll make sure to post it in the standard map downloads
-
@Michael-Hoover I have not been able to make images with shadows that looks like the ones the decoration objects have on the relief tiles. Those shadows lean towards the front, not the back, making them hard for my limited graphical skills to reproduce. Plus, if I did reproduce them, then the images would become larger in pixel size, not in a uniform top/down/left/right way, but only down/right. I imagine such pictures would look a bit strange when presented in the battle window, placement window etc.
But anyway, I did try to edit your original pictures in a way that I think makes them look better. The new images are a bit dimmed down in color brightness, smaller, outlined and I also made new resource and map mark images. I think the new images are more fitting the colors of the background/decoration. I will a link in chat. Ope you like them
Pictures of old and new images:
Question: Is it intentional that the “Maze” player directory has blank “Dead” images? And that dead-units are removed during game play? Maybe it would be nice to have and keep visual indications of what and when the heroes have killed stuff. Like letting the dead units/crosses stay on the map so that the player can hover over them to see what and when they killed stuff. Dunno what you think about that.
Error report: I dunno why, and if it is just because I use a pre-release engine version, but when I play there seems to be a graphical duplication of unit images when I walk through the maze? Look at this, it is like I leave behind ghosts of the adventuring party when moving. But it seems to be only graphically, not real units left behind in the territories:
-
@Frostion Hey thanks for trying on the shadows! Hopefully I'll get to dig in to the other images and stuff later today but from the screenshots they do look good! Can't wait to see them on the map...
I may be able to clean up the blank dead images now that 2.0 is out and allowing me to convert units at zero hp. This was a work-around I was using when I started developing the map so thanks for reminding me about it cause like I said I might be able to clean those up now.
As for the floating image error thing I noticed that too on pre-release, but once I made a few changes and merged my internal branches, and installed the latest 2.0 release, those artifacts went away. So I am not sure if it was a pre-release thing or an old code thing or perhaps a combo? It shouldn't be an issue once the map is ready for play though, since the minimum version will be 2.0
I have a few more tweaks and mods I need to make aside from integrating your contributions, but hopefully I can stay on track and we can have this ready to roll soon!
Sorry to the devs for making so many feature requests after you just released a new version, I am very grateful for all the hard work!
:clapping_hands: :index_pointing_up: 
:vulcan_salute: -
OK - been swamped with work but I finally think I can release this map! Will try to get it pushed today assuming nothing else blows up...
Please drop feedback although I may be a little long in getting to it as I seem to be unordinarily busy right now :anxious_face_with_sweat:
-
@Michael-Hoover good luck, let us know if it makes it to the depot so we can play it.
-
Its pending right now. For some reason one of the validation checks failed on checking in the yaml file (its just text so I don't know what's up with that). Waiting for further instruction on that. As soon as it clears I'll post back!
-
This looks so nice. Where did you get the Unit pictures from?
-
I'm not feeling much of a labyrinth element. To me it feels like two huge linear random paths that merge and immediately split into other two over and over again, at decreasing intervals. In particular, the second couple (from after "Inner North Path 1" to before "South Ridge 1") seems to me as absolutely identical choices, as they are both 19 zones long with a cave at the 6th one, as I've not yet realized if anything else than caves I see on these paths matters (I'm at my first run and in "Outer SW Path 8", at the moment). All in all, at least at your first run (hardly knowing what you are going to get by going left or right), the "choose your own path" element appears to be much minor with respect to anything else, and the game feels about the same as if it would be just a purely linear path.
The game itself is a nice alternative to your typical TripleA map, and certainly something very different from any other TripleA games I know, but I'm feeling the game might be too long for its variety, even though you surely squeezed a lot of it for what can be done with a program like TripleA. At the moment I'm hoping some of those caves ahead will turn to be shortcuts to make me proceed faster to the centre of the labyrinth...
The entrance of the cave in "Outer SW Path 8" seems to be inside "Outer SW Path 7".
Nothing happened when I esplored the cave anyway. If nothing actually happened, the game should better tell you that the cave is empty.
History log:
Hero spend 5 Resolve on User Action: Action ExploreCave OuterSWPath8
Action ExploreCave OuterSWPath8 activates a trigger called: Trigger FlipExploreSwitches 1 OuterSWPath8
Trigger FlipExploreSwitches 1 OuterSWPath8: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_Explore1_OuterSWPath8 attached to Hero
Trigger FlipExploreSwitches 1 OuterSWPath8 activates a trigger called: Trigger FlipExploreSwitches 2 OuterSWPath8
Trigger Rolling is a Failure! (Rolled at 5 out of 8 Result: 7 for Trigger FlipExploreSwitches 2 OuterSWPath8) -
I just got the notification that the cave was indeed empty, upon ending the "user actions" phase:
Note to players Hero: <body><center><img src="nothing.png"/></center><h2><center>Alas...You find nothing of value.</center></h2></body>
I believe this notification should rather be given immediately after making that action (entering the cave). If this is not possible, I'd open a feature request.
-
Since I'm at 35 XP or more, the game is keeping giving me the option to purchase "Hero production" upgrades. This is annoying because I can only purchase "Knight-r", and I have no "Squire-r" to upgrade.
This may be worked around with triggers adding the upgrades to the frontier only after you have the unit to upgrade on the board, even though this is really rather a program problem, as TripleA should just not offer you to purchase stuff if there is noting that you can both purchase and place. I suggest you open an issue about this in the project's repository.
I also find annoying that the game keeps asking you if you want to use the potion of healing. I had to skip that for many times, over and over again, when I was at 1 or 2 damage, and I'm thinking just not to buy any potion of healing but only when I would be using it, just not to be bothered with it. Sadly, I don't think currently TripleA really offers any smooth way to work with such items.
-
The game should inform the user that you can upgrade only if you are not wounded (I just bought a "Expert-Gladiator" I cannot place, because I have a "Wounded-Gladiator").
Regarding the potion of healing, I suggest having it just healing 1 point and making it cheaper, so that you will use it sooner and not keeping skipping the action when you have 1 or 2 damage only. I don't know if you would ever want not to use the potion of healing when you have more damage than its healing properties.
-
The "Expert-Gladiator" I bought in "Outer NW Path 8" only had me having to keep skipping the phase during which I couldn't place it, over and over again for 22 times! I had 4 damage and no healing potion when I bought it and only managed to heal 1 damage by camping in "Inner East Path North 1".
Moreover, once I got back being at 35 XP or more, I had the double annoyance of having to skip both the phase only letting me buying an upgrade for a squire I don't have, then skipping the phase letting me upgrade a gladiator I cannot upgrade (since I'm still damaged). Anyway, once I got to 50 XP or more, I was also offered to buy another "Expert-Gladiator", while already having one of those.
Eventually, my hero has just died (with 49 gold, 64 XP, 109 Resolve and 1 unplaceable "Expert-Gladiator" in inventory) in "Inner SE Path 6" (failing to complete the 2nd of the total 6 rings of the labyrinth).
Right after dying, I still got the "Hero production" phase, offering me to buy an "Expert-Gladiator" or a "Knight-r", while having an "Expert-Gladiator" unplaced from previous rounds and no squire to upgrade, either. Then, I also still got the "Hero place" phase, with no hero any longer on the map. Only after skipping both these useless phases, I got finally informed that "YOU DIED" (Dark Souls anyone?). I clicked on "Yes" for "Do you want to continue?", but that did nothing but giving me those two useless phases to skip (I know that's how TripleA always works, but I assume users will assume that your hero will respawn or something, if you choose to continue... (you can make a feature request for disabling the option to continue)).
So ends my journey in the @Michael-Hoover labyrinth... Not a noob friendly game, but that's fine, with some more information in notes (especially informing that you need to be non-wounded to level up). In the note's defence, they did say "You may, and most likely should, hire help to get you through the Labyrinth", but I decided to do without a squire...
-
Here it is the auto-save-game:
autosaveAfterHeroNonCombatMove.tsvg -
@Cernel Thank you for your inputs. I am sure @Michael-Hoover will put some thought into some of them. Although sadly as you pointed out, some of the concepts are not able to be fully realized due to the limitation of the TripleA engine. One example of this is the healing prompt anytime you are hurt. Another is the only being able to level up wounded units. I am sure that @Michael-Hoover could explain the nuances more if you wish. But it has something to do with how triggers work. I agree that there should be more documentation if there is not much. I have not had a chance to help with things like that on this project. I have had too much going on with work and college.
Also, I thought the same thing about the labyrinth at first. But a labyrinth and a maze are different and easily confused. I thought they were the same thing myself at first. The Labyrinth is a Greek myth and is structured so that all paths lead to the center.
Here is an excerpt explaining the Greek usage of the word labyrinth from Wikipedia, "In Greek mythology, the Labyrinth was an elaborate, confusing structure designed and built by the legendary artificer Daedalus for King Minos of Crete at Knossos. Its function was to hold the Minotaur... In English, the term labyrinth is generally synonymous with maze. As a result of the long history of the unicursal representation of the mythological Labyrinth, however, many contemporary scholars and enthusiasts observe a distinction between the two. In this specialized usage, maze refers to a complex branching multicursal puzzle with choices of path and direction, while a unicursal labyrinth has only a single path to the center. A labyrinth in this sense has an unambiguous route to the center and back and presents no navigational challenge.
-
@Cernel said in Labyrinth - Official Thread:
Only after skipping both these useless phases, I got finally informed that "YOU DIED" (Dark Souls anyone?).
You might not have realized, or maybe you did, but a lot of the music and some sounds are from the Souls series. And there are some nice references to other things as well.
It's a shame about all the menu annoyances. Hopefully, there will be a way to mitigate that.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login