WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE

Hepps

@ebbe If the Minor nations don't earn anything or have any additional units by the time they join the war... they are a pretty inconsequential factor either way.

A spattering of units and 1 Inf. per turn shouldn't really be decisive in the outcome of the game.

ebbe

@hepps ....fact! that is why they are minors, haha... anyway...
They'll receive an annual reinforcement of 1 infantry once joining, which is to keep them ingame/alive and acceptable realistic...

The impact will more be on territorial strategy then on total units balance,......
Spain or Turkey, (especially the later due to the Dardanelles opening for navies) ...joining changes tactical options in the European theater in a interesting way... I think
but yes, this is lot of work and discussion for a tiny Minor with minimal impact.. that's why I consider working on this project a hobby....

ebbe

@ebbe

still puzzling to find a workable way with some creating No Landing territories for Air...no working solution yet , despite all good suggestions and tips... I put it in the freezer for a moment..

next thing to tackle: OUT OF SUPPLY / ATTRITION..

I want to have Victory Cities in my Map, suffer the consequences when compeltely surrounded by enemies and while under siege. For now I see often A.I. as well as human players stack a lot of units, mostly infantry in their Victory cities... without consequences.

I lie to implement Out of supply/Attrition:
so when a players Victory city is surrounded, and the player will not or cannot break the siege in his following turn, the will be a negative impact , affecting his manpower in that city.

I still doubt which would be the bet way to have this done:

could be by a Battle-penalty symbolising that the surrounded unit gets weaker by time...

-or maybe more realistic: by giving them some random extra hits each turn as long as being surrounded....

I was trying something with a Attrition unit,
that will be placed when VC besieged... attacking the units with a AA-style attack....
too much work and issues to work that out properly I noticed..

Anyone other ideas?

Yes, I keep it limited to VC's as they are small and often used for stacking..
and it would implement some code to involve all VC's ..
and I have allready massive number of trigger attachments in my map....
(I do not see a way to fix it for all isolated/surrounded territories either ) anyway all ideas / tips welcome....

jkprince

@ebbe I also made a 38(t) tank that could be used as the Sweidsh light_armour or for some German allies

ebbe

CASUS PORTUGAL:

So, after Turkey, Argentina and Spain it is time for Portugal to join the family of pro-Active Major Minors....
Mainland Portugal, Azores, Portugese Guinea , Mozambique, Angola and a part of Timor. Still some territory altogether.

Minor certainly concerning its army size , bad economic situation , still essential due to the strategically position of the Azores...and a bottleneck down in Africa.

So Portugal was under the a-typical dictator Salazar, (anti communist anti -fascist) and tried to keep Portugal neutral. On one side there was a 550 Alliance- treaty with the UK and on the other side a recent support to Spanish Nationalists in the Spanish Civil War confirmed with the Iberian treaty ..
Interesting..... both Allies as Axis made several invading plans which put some pressure on the Portugese.

Okej: what I made of it:
-Portugal remains true neutral until turn 14 ( autumn 1943)
Then Azores becomes available to the Allies...with an airbase...

From that moment all other Portugese terr's are still true neutral to the Allies, but possible to invade by the Axis..

If they do invade one of these Terr's later in the game,
(as a response on the Azores switch),
then the whole of Portugal will join the Allies....

seems logical to me. is it?

Armed forces proposed:
2 in f. in Portugal, 1 in Azores...( 35.000 men positioned there
as meant to be escape for government in invasion situation)
1 garrison in Angola, Mozambique and Portugese Guinea...each
and a Flotilla representing its Fleet.
I couldn't find clues to add more units ... do you?

hmmm anyway: in theory there is a slight chance that
Spain and Argentina may join the Axis... Portugal might join the Allies and Turkey might join either.... keeps a bit of dynamics in the play..

jkprince

@ebbe You could add the portugese territory of Macau in China, which was a important refugee centre during the war and narrowly avoided Japanese invasion a few times. It would have a garrison in it but would not be worth any PUs

Schulz

BTW Japan occupied East Timor during WWII despite the Portuguese Neutrality.

jkprince

@schulz @ebbe Oh yea could also add that as a portugese territory

ebbe

@schulz @joseph prince

Macau... yes that could be... but my map scale allows few adds...
without getting problems of placement.... so I give them the luck of never be invaded

Timor: I solved it by a shared Dutch-Portugese territory;
with dutch as Terr. owner (a garrison of both nations)
so by this possible to invade

Roybot

@ebbe Hi. I've downloaded this map and can't wait to play it. Where can I find a printable version of the game notes so I can read them while away from the computer?.

ebbe

Trifle: Just added some other things like more Oil in the Arabian peninsula... for that I implemented BAHRAIN , small feature but was lot of work for such a tiny island ,
I had to move 14 overflow locations on games top.. haha...

Anyway ; the area needed a bit more oil to be represented...
I changed Yemen into Aden Protectorate.... and choose not to display the UAE ( trucian States ) and Yemen itselves....
so...more oil for the grab

and yes a trifle definately but hey, that's a hobby
and I just lack the time the very moment to take on bigger things

ebbe

@roybot Hej there, nice you take a look at my first Triple project ever.... I can send you the latest Word-doc for the game as you asked for.... just give me your @ by chat... If you want my latest game version I can send it to you by We Transfer, as I moved much further but lack the time now to do a Github upload..... feedback and bugs report really welcome!

General_Zod

@ebbe How about this idea.

When the air unit flies over the territory a condition/objective and/or trigger can change the status of any number of circumstances (your choice). Which prevents the air unit from landing there. However if air unit flies out of the territory all the circumstances return back to status quo.

I personally think that making the territory into status "just captured" somewhere in the turn should be enough, if not however. Optionally if you made it a contested territory during noncombat after the air unit flies into it, this should also prevent the air unit from landing in this territory. Once air unit moves out remove the contested status. This should be achievable by placing a enemy combat unit of some type and then removing it.

ebbe

@general_zod great, thanks for the effort... I give it a chance soon

ebbe

case ITALY:

I like to have the feeling that the German player should really
take after its southern neighbour, to protect its own gains.
= If Sicily, South italy and Rome will be in Allied hands; allmost all Italian troops will surrender. And 3 Italian Infantry units
(with own brighter yellow green colour and other flag) will switch side into a Royalist Italian "Southern Army" and join the Allies.

If North Italy is still in Axis controll at that moment, 2 Italian infantry units
and the italian leader Mussolini will continue the fight from there, resulting in civil war alike situation. implemented in v.1.9

General_Zod

@ebbe A thought to make the contested territory somewhat logical. Call the enemy unit "Hostile Flying Conditions" . Or something of the sort, in an attempt coverup the hacky nature of the mechanism.

ebbe

@general_zod said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

Hostile Flying Conditions

yes, withyour suggestions I was thinking about creating a unit that works on both sides, axis and allies... so a hostile player that appears with a blank or Non-landing warning -token.... during noncombat....... only have to see If I implement
an option to build airfields in these terr's how to stop triggering this mechanism... hmmmm but that should be solvable with a condition if No airfield around okej I give a try ..... -->

RESULT: doesn't seem to work either....
-Same as my territory switch approach: THERE SEEMS TO BE NO CHECK for AIR concerning landing after combat phase:
even if I add this "enemy"element in earlier, like after Purchase... air units may land... guess ownership is dominant... I also tried different types of enemy unit,like with infrastructure element or regular

an Airunit is allowed in contested territory as a result....

My previous option: Change ownership after combat phase & switch back before place phase works fine! But......
-the changing of colour looks odd during the game...
-And then I ll have to write for each player for each teritory a trigger to
return it to the current owner..
hmmm... challenging...

anyone a suggestion how to tackle this?

my test attempt:

<attachment name="conditionAttachmentNoLanding" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.RulesAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="players" value="Germans:Italians:Japanese:Vichy-French:Russians:Chinese:British:Canadians:ANZAC:Americans:French"/>
    <option name="switch" value="true"/>
    <option name="unitPresence" value="no_airfield" count="1"/>
</attachment>

<attachment name="triggerAttachmentNoLandingSet" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentNoLanding"/>
    <option name="changeOwnership" value="East Greenland:any:NoAirLandingAllowed:true"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:britishBattle"/>
</attachment>
<attachment name="triggerAttachmentNoLandingReset" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentNoLanding"/>
    <option name="changeOwnership" value="East Greenland:NoAirLandingAllowed:Neutral_Allies:true"/>
    <option name="when" value="before:britishPlace"/>
</attachment>

NoAirLanding = a dummy player with

     <option name="canMoveAirUnitsOverOwnedLand" value="true"/>
      <option name="canLandAirUnitsOnOwnedLand" value="false"/>

Well I could avoid the swapping of colours by adding a No Air Landing -dummy player allowed FOR EACH PLAYER.... in their own colours... WOW that would be very serious amount of code alltogether for a little feature... too bad the reset of territory effect doesn't work if the unit is allready in the specific territory once the switch is done: this would have been the easiest way ...

bel246

Hey I just tested out your map. I really like the your fresh approach and think it works well. I love the train system and the seasonal changes. I also think the oil shortage in some countries adds a very nice flavour. I have a few things I noted:

I guess that's a bug. Sea zone 3 and Greece are next to each other which means you can fly from Greenland all the way down to Egypt with a fighter (lost my fleet to that).
I really like the rebel system, so you can't rely on the conquered territory and it is realistic. There is one part I don't really like though which also isn't realistic. I conquered a territory in china then a rebel spawned there. The problem with that is my whole army stack (about 20 units) couldn't move (combat phase) because of that one unit. In non combat I couldn't move them either because they did battle there. So in theory it could happen that you can't move your army for several turns just because rebels keep spawning and you have no chance of knowing when your whole army will get stuck which can easily loose you the game. Is it possible to change it so you can still leave the territory in combat phase when a rebel has spawned there?
Sometimes I wish there would be some more notes of what is going on or going to happen. For example: I was standing next to Leningrad knowing I can definitely conquer it next turn. The next turn I couldn't and looking in the history an event was triggered called "defend the homeland" and they got 4 more hitpoints (trench and 2 units) in there. That is of course something that you can learn by playing the map several times but it would be nice if there could be a note so you can read about those things beforehand.
Another instance which I still don't understand was when I conquered Ulan Bator on turn 4 with Japanese. There where no units in sight so I was sure my units are safe. Then it was the Russians turn and suddenly they had 2 more units in the area a cavalry and an infantry. I couldn't even find the trigger for that in the history.
Also some notes about which turn technological advancements happen and where they spawn an extra unit would be sweet.
I think its weird that my air planes can get killed by sea mines. Maybe make them like submarines? Especially since my planes can't kill the mines.
England is very badly defended. I was able to conquer London in turn 3 and I don't think Britain can stop that (I played against AI on 150% income) if you go all in.
Some rules I don't understand. In jungle it says you can't blitz. To me blitz always meant I can drive through an enemy territory and go to the next one after that. I did some testing and I can't move most of my 2 movement units into jungle from 2 territories away even if I own the territory in between. I can move through 2 jungle territories if I own both though. I can move cavalry (which also blitzes) from 2 territories away in there. I would love some clarification of that rule.
I haven't found any way yet to repair battleships even leaving them next to my original factory doesn't seem to repair them. I guess the same is true for carrier. Oh and is it intended that carriers can't carry any fighter after they are damaged?

When I hover over a battleship it says it has 2x8 attacks and defence. When using them in the battle calculator they have 9 attack and 9 defence without having 2 attacks.
I did some testing. For some reason the battle calculator is really confused by battleships. If a battleship (2x8 attack, 2 HP) fights against a destroyer (4 defense) the calculator says there will be a draw 40% of the time. Which shouldn't even happen if it only had 9 attack because of the 2 HP. I put the game settings on low luck and there a battleship suddenly has only 9 attack (which is weird because normally it would have 16 attack in low luck). Something doesn't really work there.

Is it intended that you can't upgrade finish entrenchments into fortifications?
Some channel rule clarifications would be nice. I can't figure out where channels are and what countries you need to own to pass through them.
I can't figure out how to use the defensive Leadership. I can't use it on newly conquered territory but also when I use it on owned territories it doesn't give any bonus at all. Sometimes I can't even move it.
I noticed when defending japan that the 10 units per stack rule doesn't apply for transports. That makes it quite unfair. Americans can land with 40 infantry while I can defend with a maximum of 10. Maybe apply this rule for landing transports also?

By the way I read you want to get rid of the triggers concerning partisans. I actually would love to see them happen. Then it isn't such a huge surprise when suddenly somewhere on the map new units appear.

I really enjoyed playing the map. Keep up the good work!

wc_sumpton

@ebbe

The only way I was able to accomplish 'Non Combat Move Restrict Landing' was with 'territoryEffect'

First the 'territoryEffect's, there are two, both have the same 'png' in the 'territoryEffect' folder, this way the player can see the visual 'Can Not Land' icon in the statusbar:

<territoryEffectList>
   <territoryEffect name="CanNotLand"/>
   <territoryEffect name="CanMoveOver"/>
   ...
</territoryEffectList>
...
<attachment name="territoryEffectAttachment" attachTo="CanNotLand" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TerritoryEffectAttachment" type="territoryEffect">
   <option name="unitsNotAllowed" value="fighter"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Only to make icon visable -->
<attachment name="territoryEffectAttachment" attachTo="CanMoveOver" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TerritoryEffectAttachment" type="territoryEffect">
</attachment>
...

Next the 'airfield' check:

<attachment name="conditionAttachmentAirField" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="players" value="Germans:Italians:Japanese:Vichy-French:Russians:Chinese:British:Canadians:ANZAC:Americans:French"/>
   <option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="East Greenland" count="1"/>
   <option name="unitPresence" value="airfield" count="1"/>
</attachment>

Now for the triggers:

<!-- Is there an airfield, if so remove all effects -->
<attachment name="triggerAttachmentLandingEastGreenland" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentAirField"/>
   <option name="territories" value="East Greenland"/>
   <option name="territoryAttachmentName" value="TerritoryAttachment" count="territoryAttachment"/>
   <option name="territoryProperty" value="territoryEffect" count="-reset-"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:russiansCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:japaneseCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:britishCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:etc..."/>
</attachment>
<!-- No 'airfield' so replace no landing restriction -->
<attachment name="triggerAttachmentMovingEastGreenland" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentAirField"/>
   <option name="invert" value="true" />
   <option name="territories" value="East Greenland"/>
   <option name="territoryAttachmentName" value="TerritoryAttachment" count="territoryAttachment"/>
   <option name="territoryProperty" value="territoryEffect" count="-reset-CanMoveOver"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:russiansCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:japaneseCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:britishCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:etc..."/>
</attachment>
<!-- Restrict landing after combat -->
<attachment name="triggerAttachmentNoLandingEastGreenland" attachTo="British" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentAirField"/>
   <option name="invert" value="true"/>
   <option name="territories" value="East Greenland"/>
   <option name="territoryAttachmentName" value="TerritoryAttachment" count="territoryAttachment"/>
   <option name="territoryProperty" value="territoryEffect" count="-reset-CanNotLand"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:russiansNonCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:japaneseNonCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:britishNonCombatMove"/>
   <option name="when" value="before:etc..."/>
</attachment>

Review and let me know what you think.

Cheers...

ebbe

@bel246

I really really appreciate the very detailed feedback you gave on this project.. as stated before it is my first project, took me a lot of time to understand the coding and how to get my ideas transformed in this game...

after working so long on it I definately loose the objective fresh overview that what makes your post really valuable to me...

I will read through your long list at a proper time to give you the right answers and take into account your suggestions...

My work is my further allready than the version you downloaded, judging from the 2 hit unit repair issues... I find it troublesome to refresh all the files via Github, ( I lack the rest and time for it at the moment)
I you feel like I can give you my latest version, via We transfer....
just let me know....
and yes there is a big wishlist of refining things and
sometimes the wish to implement things that I haven't found solutions for or maybe are impossible... but we'll see in time...

thanks a lot... I come back to your input soon....