WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE

ebbe

Okej, a way to get Supply and out of Supply in besieged Cities:

-If a city will get besieged it will be slowly consuming its supply stocks:
if running out of them they get a battle penalty of -1.

Good thing:
-one can prepare for siege by buying goods.....in advance....
to prepare if the enemies are coming close....

one can airdrop supplies with airtransport to keep besieged city well supplied.
-Once liberated the city doesn't receive any out of supply tokens any more consuming supplies, so remaining unused supplies can be used later in the game...
-Even enemies can get stuck besieged in a enemy city with similair supply consequences..
a kind of Stalingrad scenario

Still to solve:
-A player shouldn't be allowed to buy supplies in a besieged city
-The nr of supplies needed is symbolically...: if one has 1 unit there or 20... it still needs 1 supply per turn, as I do not see how to count nr of units stationed in there....
-Still puzzling ho to get the "getting besieged" trigger -reset- for
occasions the city is freed, but later in the game besieged again....
if I use <option name="uses" value="1"/> it will be triggered only
once in the whole game..
if I leave out <option name="uses" value="1"/> it will repeat each besieged turn, neither what I wanted...

any ideas anyone?

<!-- OUT  OF SUPPLY TEST STALINGRAD-->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
      <option name="Players" value="$AllAxis$"/>
     <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="3"/><option name="enemyPresenceTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/>
</attachment>
<attachment name="TA_PlaceOutOfSupplyStalingradbyAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis"/>
    <option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="notification" value="StalingradBesieged"/>
    <option name="uses" value="1"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:frenchNonCombatMove"/>
</attachment>
<attachment name="TA_PlaceOutOfSupplyStalingradbyAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:frenchNonCombatMove"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Siege lifted-->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradNoLongerBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
     <option name="Players" value="$AllAllies$"/>
     <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="1"/><option name="alliedPresenceTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/>
</attachment>
<attachment name="TA_RemoveOutOfSupply_StalingradbyAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradNoLongerBesiegedByAxis"/>
  <!--  <option name="uses" value="1"/>-->
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="99"/>
    <option name="notification" value="StalingradSiegeLifted"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:germansNonCombatMove"/><!--should be japanese-->
</attachment>

and then same for Axis side

besides , if the siege is not lifted within All Allied
( of the besieged player) players turn, the city will loose its PU income.... ( fixed now with Convoy route concept: thanks to general zod )
Which sounds tough .. I might make a penalty on the PU fot that....

it would be great to have production limited or
stopped also when under siege... let's see...

do I hate cities? no no.. but the way some terr's with high PU and factory function now, makes that often like Stack-piled islands,
keeping building up waiting for counterattack.. which for me personally is not too realistic.... the help for besieged cities is mostly expected from outside?

or is there a more simple way to get this idea? I have allready a total of 556 trigger ingame which I am not very proud..maybe I want too much..
( or code it too complicated ) Halelujah!

Schulz

Shouldn't there be a penalty to attemp encircling Stalingrad due to Volga river?

beelee

@ebbe you don't want the notification trigger to fire every time it's under siege ? Just once on the turn it goes under siege and then repeat only if free and under siege again ?

ebbe

@beelee Indeed, not just the notification but the whole trigger:
With my knowledge I see only 2 options:
-It will repeat every turn the conditions are met
or If set use="uses" value="1" and then with a second siege it doesn't trigger anymore... which I would like it too do...

ebbe

@schulz well If the Terr. incl. the east Volga bank isn't occupied,
than the city is not completely encircled and can still be supplied... so no consequences in the scenario I sketch....

RogerCooper

I would like to suggest a simpler approach. You don't need to track complete encirclement or total supplies. Just figure 1 or 2 supporting areas for area for each nation. If they are enemy-controlled drop a suicide unit that launches an AA-style attack against every unit in the cut-off area.

TheDog

@ebbe
You could try this
Set Stalingrad as a

<option name="blockadeZone" value="true" />

Set every unit as

<option name="blockade" value="1"/>

or maybe just the Engineers/Assault Guns? I have not played your map.

The above two lines do not error

But will blockade work on land?

It would would be really good if it did, but at the mo I dont have time to test it.
.

ebbe

@thedog nice idea... I try it out , but with convoy route that economical impact is solved... and with Block the PU's might go to occupying player?

@RogerCooper yes, that was a plan B... to make Out of Supply create hits somehow.... even created a dummy Player for that... the idea of few main supporting areas is good idea.... every player has some main zones...

okej but the question about how to have -Reset- a trigger as if
"uses" value="1" has not happened that game before, is still open

ebbe

@ebbe

In the mean time a "special"-unit I wanted allready for long time:

German Flaktower....

flakTower copy.PNG

Not that they were very:
-Common: only few build in germany and one in Vienna
-Succesful: I read their impact against allied bombing was minimal
-Sustainable: they costed a shit load of material and building time

But still: I just wanted to have one standing in the game...
3 Hit points offcourse, theses things were very very Bomb-proof...
AA offcourse but then in a amazing shell of concrete..
Makes conquering/bombing Berlin just that bit more extra challenging...

flakTower Berlin.png
@Hepps *...is this the first Flaktower around in TripleA or
did you have a bunch allready ?

beelee

@ebbe hmm...still not 100% certain of what all is going on here but maybe try a "activateTrigger" with the trigger that lifts the siege with the same conditions ? Just name it different. Let em all be uses 1.

Might need a half dozen or so, depending on how likely it is to reoccur. If it even works. I could be way off base lol

wc_sumpton

@ebbe

Maybe try a switch and a condition:

<!-- The switch -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisSwitch" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="switch" value="true" />
</attachment>
<!-- The inverted condition -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisInvert" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisSwitch"/>
   <option name="invert" value="true" />
</attachment>

When 'CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisSwitch' is "true", 'CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisInvert' will be "false", and vice versa.

Add the switch to the check condition, with the ability to change the switch:

<attachment name="TA_PlaceOutOfSupplyStalingradbyAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisSwitch"/>
    <option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="1"/>
   <option name="notification" value="StalingradBesieged"/>
   <option name="players" value="Gremans"/>
   <option name="playerAttachmentName" value="RulesAttachment" count="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisSwitch"/>
   <option name="playerProperty" value="switch" count="false"/>
   <option name="when" value="after:frenchNonCombatMove"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Add the invert to the reset -->
<attachment name="TA_RemoveOutOfSupply_StalingradbyAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradNoLongerBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisInvert"/>
   <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="99"/>
   <option name="notification" value="StalingradSiegeLifted"/>
   <option name="players" value="Gremans"/>
   <option name="playerAttachmentName" value="RulesAttachment" count="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisSwitch"/>
   <option name="playerProperty" value="switch"  count="true"/>
   <option name="when" value="after:germansNonCombatMove"/>
</attachment>

Also I would also think about using an invert condition to check the lifted logic:

<attachment name="CA_StalingradNoLongerBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis"/>
    <option name="invert" value="true"/>
</attachment>

Just some thoughts.

Cheers...

ebbe

@wc_sumpton Hej man, thanks again for thinking along;
yes, sometimes it is confronting when I want to implement something
but still lack the coding skills and knowledge to fix it... tried hard to get a grip on your suggestion, the switch element gave an error...
I tried for 3 hours but unfortunately without the hoped result..
till I wanne give it another try.... **anyone sees a way out? **

-What doesn't work yet:
-the supplies should be 1 less each turn if Stalingrad is besieged..
( now it only uses 1 supply 1 time and next turn stops) - -
and I want the out of supply Token and disabled factory to be
placed only after last supplies are used... for this I thought to use a check with <option name="unitPresence" value="supply" count='0'/> but that
doesn't seem to do the job.... hmmmmm

anyone a sharp eye on this? ( yes I am asking a lot of you all )


<attachment name="CA_StalingradSurroundedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
     <option name="Players" value="$AllAllies$"/>
     <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="0"/>
     <option name="uses" value="99"/>
     <option name="invert" value="true"/>
</attachment>
<attachment name="CA_StalingradAlliedControlled" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
     <option name="Players" value="$AllAllies$"/>
     <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/>
     <!--<option name="invert" value="true"/>-->
</attachment>
<!-- Run out of supplies check -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradRunOutOfSupplies" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <!--<option name="Players" value="$AllAllies$"/>-->
   <option name="unitPresence" value="supply" count='0'/><!-- Run out of supplies check Doesn 't seem to work-->
</attachment>

<!-- remove 1 supply per turn-->
<attachment name="TA_UseSupplyStalingradIfSurroundedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradSurroundedByAxis"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="uses" value="99"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:russiansNonCombatMove"/>
</attachment>
<!-- disable factory and place Outof supply penalty-->
<attachment name="TA_BesiegedStalingrad" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradSurroundedByAxis"/>
    <option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="1"/><option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:factory_disabled" count="1"/><option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:factory" count="1"/>
    <option name="notification" value="StalingradBesieged"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:frenchNonCombatMove"/>
</attachment>

General_Zod

@ebbe Is there a reason your not using an option to declare what territories are being checked for following.

</attachment>

Try adding this line above or below unitPresence line.

Post the error if no luck.

General_Zod

@ebbe @wc_sumpton Just a side note, which may not be an issue with new releases etc.. And perhaps someone can verify and or clarify further.

It is in regards to skipping the type of attachment in <attachment name=.

ie: triggerAttachment, conditionAttachmnet, objectiveAttachment, politicalActionAttachmnet, userActionAttachment. playerAttachment.

All attachment types apply in this case as long as your providing an original name. I have definitely experienced failed code when using other prefixes than the ones listed in xml.

I have used other names and think they are great. Like the ones I see here, TAxxxx and CAxxxx. I wish they were free of issues, but like I said they don't always function. Usually with political and user actions that utilize these formats somewhere within its code structure.

Just a heads up.

ebbe

@general_zod said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

TAxxxx and CAxx

Hej there, thanks for your feedback once more... it is so quiet at the forum lately I thought everyone is laying on the beach, or working hard for their job deadline to be able to..

on attachment naming: Yes I just tried to replace triggerAttachment, and conditionAttachment with TA_ and CA_ to keep the code as clear and as short as possible.. I couldn't find any info whether this could give trouble, but testing in my setting seemd ok... which is no guarantee ofcourse... I am curious what the other code wizards think of this?

supply value="0" yes, I tried that one too... was not sure if it was working, could be other part of the code that fails...
still struggling with wc_sumptions suggestion for resetting a trigger, somehow I still don't get it... makes me feel slightly stupid

wc_sumpton

@ebbe

Thank you for your answer to @General_Zod. Personally, I use the whole wording as @General_Zod has suggested, but when helping others I try to keep what they have and add to it without trying to change the structure to much.

If I understand, this is what is trying to be accomplished. When a city is surrounded a message is displayed and "out_of_supply" tokens are placed. On the following turns, as long as the city remains surrounded, the message is not to be displayed but another token is placed.

Once the city is liberated the tokens are removed, and reset for the message to be displayed.

Going to use 'Stalingrad' with 'Russians' as owner:

<!-- The conditions -->
<!-- Checking to see if Russians still own Stalingrad -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <!-- Only checking for the ownership of Stalingrad -->
   <!-- So checking for unit presence is unnecessary -->
   <option name="directOwnershipTerritories" value="Stalingrad"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Next check to see if Russians or their allies control any of the surrounding territories -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
  <!-- Only need 1 of 3, so count can be left off or set to 1 -->
   <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan"/>
</attachment>
<!-- The invert/opposite of 'CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis' will tell if Russians or their allies do not control those surrounding territories -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <!-- Checking the ownership of the surrounding territories -->
  <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis"/>
   <!-- Will always be the opposite -->
   <option name="invert" value="true"/>
</attachment>
<!-- The messages -->
<!-- To display the message, set a display switch -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisMessage" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="switch" value="true"/>
</attachment>
<!-- To not display the message use the opposite of when to display -->
<!-- To display the message, set a display switch -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisNoMessage" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
   <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxisMessage"/>
   <option name="invert" value="true"/>
</attachment>
<!-- End conditions -->

So those are the five conditions for checking the surrounding of Stalingrad.

Cheers...

ebbe

@wc_sumpton Thanks a lot for sharing and explaining these essential switch and invert -coding tricks to me.. they are very usefull!

Another thing that was on my mind! To have more possibilities
to pimp and empower A.I. players:

A trigger that only pulls off when a player is A.I.

It is used a lot in civ5 WW2 RED Mod.. ofcourse one cannot expect completely different game-bases to have similair functions... but you guys think it would be possible, relatively easy to get this done in Triple A...? if so I can make another Request..

so For example....
In Stalingrad script there is a trigger Uranus Offensive:
set by date, enemyOwnershipTerritories or whatever:

-- URANUS [19421119] = CivID = USSR, AI = true,
Group = {RU_INFANTRY, RU_INFANTRY, RU_BT7, RU_T26, RU_T34, RU_T34_76, RU_KV1},

So triggers that only work if the player attached to it is A.I. that game?

With the right "hidden" bunch of triggers , it could make A.I. more strtegical/controllable? If there a multiple triggers with a Chance-element still unpredictable?

I wonder even how hard it i to give them a "InitialObjective" as target.?

Just thinking loud here without the burden of coding experience

your humble opinions on this?

RogerCooper

@ebbe An isAI condition is not currently supported but I have requested it as a feature.

There are workarounds. You could have the human player place a special unit for themselves that the AI would not choose which could then be used for conditions.

LaFayette

A core design/architecture behind TripleA is that every player is interchangeable between human or AI. This is very deeply baked in and is part of the core code design. We are unlikely to be able to support such triggers.

General_Zod

@ebbe Determining the current AI value assignment mechanism would get there partly. I'm pretty sure they value capitals and victory cities and and production of PU. Once you determine a few of their main priorities you can via a set of chance conditions and triggers add a another element to the AI behavoirs specific to your map.