Bids system still here?
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I started playing A&A on the board game in the mid-80s but couldn’t find d people to play with. I then discovered this online version years ago but couldn’t play due to the bid system. Let me explain. Because I was so rusty, and it seemed virtually everyone up here was so experienced, they could beat me from either side with a zero bid. Therefore, no matter where the bidding started my opponent could always drive the bid to zero and still win.
What I think would be much fairer is what I saw in one thread when I searched for “bid” was a handicap method. That is like a point spread in betting on football or a handicap in golf. If I were to go against a “scratch” player (in golf, one who needs no handicap”) I would get X PU for the Axis and Y PU if playing the allies. If I were to win then my handicap would go down.
If we both have a handicap we could either apply that for each, again like how they do it in golf
I think the system could be based on points awarded by how many turns it took to win or PU differential at the end of the game (since most don’t want to play all the way to the end of a war that is clearly lost) with the “bonus”for how many (how few from the other perspective) turns it took to win. Total Unit Values could be included somehow. I’m not locked into the system of setting the handicap, but I think that is the fairest way to level the playing field.
As is, I’d love to get back in, but I don’t stand a chance against virtually anyone here unless I was given a handicap.
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There has been and still is a bidding system that has been used for A&A or TripleA games for many, many years. But this does not cover what you are after, IMHO.
The existing bidding system tries to even assumed or more or less proven imbalances of the OOB games. So in case players of (more or less) equal strength agree that in a specific game a faction needs a bid to have an equal chance to win that game, the player of the potentially weaker faction would recieve some additional PU / Units.
This bidding system is fine for players with (almost) even skills, but it is highly problematic for players on a different skill level. Let's assume an A&A game that is said to favor the 'Axis'. So to come to even chances a bid would be granted to the 'Allies' player. What would be fine for equal strength players would additionally make live harder for a low-skilled player, who does not even know how to win with the (stronger) 'Axis' side he is playing.
What you are looking for is a bidding system that takes playing strength into account. The requirement for this would be a generally agreed scale or measurement of 'playing strength". This would require a database of many games of many different players to mathematically identify a scale. Players from axisandallies.org for example lately have put much effort in creating an ELO based rating system, that provides an individual rating for every player based on the input of about 4500 games of the last decade. However the result of this ELO based system is not "additional PU" but the variation of ELO-points as reward or consequence for winning/losing against players of equal or different skill levels.
You are looking for additional PU/Units for different playing strength. But who can say how "different playing strength" converts to PU? You and your opponent usually don't know each other. You don't know actually how strong or weak you opponent is and how that translates into PU. Who would say "I am stronger than you so I give you another 10 (or 100?) fighters?" or who would agree to someone saying "I am so weak you need to give me another 10 (or 100?) fighters"?
I recommend that you gain some fun of playing A&A or TripleA games knowing you will lose them against some (ore even many) people. As you only learn by losing. One day you will have learned enough to win. Improve your game play and your strategy game by game. That is what makes the fun of strategy games.
Also on some platforms (such as the above mentioned) 'new' players regularly come to join the party. Players there aren't or haven't been pros from the beginning of their playing careers.What is the point of winning an A&A or TripleA game just by artificially granting whatever "handicap PU" ? That would not reflect reality, IMHO.
Just my point of view of course. Curious if anyone has any idea for a working "handicap system"...
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@panther
Thank you for the reply.First, what is an ELO? (I’m of an age that brings to mind the Electric Light Orchestra :-)).
I’m not a bridge or chess player but I know they have a rating system. I think it is based on wins and losses. In bridge I know people deliberately play with strong players to gain points or a ratings level. (I had a cousin who was a strong player that people hired to do just that). So the fact that there are multiple players on each side is not a barrier.
Yes, it would require a database, but that should be pretty easy to set up.
I don’t know if there is any existing record of numbers won/lost for each player and on which side or country(s) they were playing. But, if not, we have to start somewhere. It shouldn’t take very long for player ability starts to manifest itself.
I understand there is a core group that manages the forum and game development. They could make an initial determination that people with a certain win/loss percentage (and maybe also based on number of games played and/or number of turns the game lasted, total units destroyed, etc.), should get or give up something. As the data starts to get accumulate this could be tweaked - just like there is now a widely presumed perception for the need for some supplemental units for one side or another for certain maps/sides became an accepted tweak to the established existing setups.
That way we wouldn’t be afraid to play against anyone. If I played a round of golf against Tiger Woods he would give me a whole lot of strokes. My next door neighbor, not so much.
I think that would help a lot.
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I am old enough to know The Electric Light Orchestra, actually I own some vinyl records bought in the early 80s.
ELO is the rating system actually used for Chess.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_systemUnfortunately this forum is not frequented very much. Only the same handful of people is active here, mostly map makers currently or people asking for technical support here and there. So I doubt that anybody is currently willing to take on the work that you suggested ....
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Do many people still play or is it just a handful?
I used to end up playing by myself by taking just one country and letting the AI play the other 4. I’d win virtually every time as the AI would do silly buys and moves. Those games could take hours, and I was using the original map.
Is the AI any better now a days so maybe i can still play solo games?
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@stu_the_k
Check out this map, as we (Black Elk & I) think it plays very well against the AI, as we spent many hours testing and making it as 'clever' as possible.It also has some new code in it 'isAI' to help the AI and stacking limits.
You will also need an updated version of TripleA.
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread?page=1 -
@thedog
My Mac OS, 11.7.10 won't allow me to run the update.
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Im a Windows user, so no real help.
What happens if you click on Show in Finder?
Can you manually force it to download, cause we Windows have to do something similar.
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@thedog I called Apple and they told me the way to force allow it was to hold the Ctrl key and then right click and pick Open and it gave me an option to by pass that. (Interesting that it is the Ctrl key and not the Command key).
But then I got an error that the list of names didn't dl. I clicked the link and it took me to a map download page, but I don't see the download with the list of names.
I also tried to report it to TripleA using the link in the error message but it said I needed a GitHub account. I just created one, but it won't let me log in despite being 100% sure I'm typing in my name and password.
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BTW, how do I edit a post I did? I forgot to also say there was only 1 link in your post, to the game update, but not to the game you think I should try. Please post that.
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Sadly TripleA 2.6 downloads are not working and you have to manually add the maps to your playable maps.
As a windows user I dont know where the default install for Mac maps is.
Windows maps are here;
C:\Users\PC-USERNAME\triplea\downloadedMapsI just checked on GitHub your post did not make it there.
For another day just logging on to GitHub directly using
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues
But you dont need to as you will get more help here on the TripleA forums. -
@thedog I got it to load and it says I'm running 2.5.22294.
I finally got to a place to add maps and I chose the Classic, but now I have 2 of them each. How do I get rid of the duplicates?
Also, I like to play the original version where Russia gets to move first. I didn't see that in the Classic package or anywhere else. How do I dl that?
Also, what is the name of the map you suggest I try? (And will it run on my version?)
Finally, is there a way to edit a post in case I want to add to it or find a typo?
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TripleA 2.5.22294 is the current version most players use.
TripleA 2.6.xxxxx is the new pre-release.They both share the same maps folder.
To remove duplicate maps, its a manual process go to the maps folder and delete the map you dont want.
I cant help with the map your after, I dont play A&A board games or for that matter TripleA equivalents.
To play my map you need 2.6 as only 2.6 has the new 'isAI'.
I will post later re editing on GitHub
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@thedog I uninstalled my old version and now I have 2.6.14611 and that got rid of the duplicates.
What is the name of the map you suggest I play?
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Its called 1941-global-command-decision, google drive download link here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11VZpiI4DQLv4Wco4deAxY2x_OoqRcFTV/view?usp=sharingTripleA forums thread for the same map
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/3326/1941-global-command-decision-official-thread?page=1 -
@Stu_the_K
To edit a post on GitHub
Click on the 3 dots ...
Select Edit
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@thedog I meant how to edit posts here.
In any event I got to there 2 different ways but I don't know what/how to dl what I need and where they get stored.
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@stu_the_k Hi stu
To edit a post here, click on the 3 dots to the bottom right of your post
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@stu_the_k
Both places hold the same map version.The Google Drive is easier, it will download to your browser downloads folder.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11VZpiI4DQLv4Wco4deAxY2x_OoqRcFTV/view?usp=sharingIf you want to use GitHub link use this
https://github.com/triplea-maps/1941_global_command_decision.git
then click green <> Code
then Select Download ZIP
