💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[Eqqman]

edited out --- (won't let me delete)

[beelee]

@eqqman

this is what shows up for me.

[wc_sumpton]

@ezgaming said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

@wc_sumpton Yes I know that - and I cannot get that to work in this game. More specifically, I can give a country the bid no problem... and even place it... sort of.... but if I use even 1 bid of 1 point, the entire game goes into some preset game 1 German invasion of Russia.

In other words, the bid function does not really work. There is no way to actually use it. I have no idea why all the Germans are so determined to invade Russia; I DID NOT TELL THEM TO DO IT!

My hope was that after they saw the new German bid they would have world peace and all hold hands and sing Kumbaya

I REALLY WANT THAT BID TO WORK hahahaha

LMAO!!!

If I'm reading this correctly, Germany is AI controlled, and they are invading Russia. I don't think the "Bid" will change that. Germany got no place else to go but east.

There is also "Resource Modifiers" but be warned that whatever is given using this will be granted twice.

But if you want AI Germany not to attack Russia on the first turn, I think you are out of luck!:face_with_tears_of_joy:

Cheers...

[Black_Elk]

I did test it a bit with a bid initially, since that would have been my typical method - like for A&A maps or Iron War and most other PvP games, but doing this just broke the first round triggers.

Specifically, if entering a bid in game options (for say Germany) this will jack up that thing you did with the Eastern front - assigning original owner of all those TTs to USSR and then having them switch to German ownership via trigger before the game begins - like in whatever hidden round where that occurs at the outset. The bid phase interrupts that part, and the TTs will appear as control contested, with a bunch of German starting units in the front line Soviet starting TTs, and the map display will show that situation since the bid phase comes first. Typically original owner and starting owner of a TT would be the same at the game's start.

You can strong arm it I suppose, but that requires the players to save/reload after the bid phase, and I'm not sure how it would even work, since the game is pretty far removed from my familiar A&A point of reference. The usual bidding process would probably throw players for a loop. Pretty sure I mentioned this at the time, way back, as one of the things that would make PvP basically impossible lol. I took a more anodyne approach afterwards, suggesting playbalance by sides/nation might be achieved through the Resource Modifier thing instead, but again that's all keying off what the computer does, since it's basically the SP game right? I would just remove the bid altogether, but I think it's part of the standard options so not sure if you can?

In a PvP set up you'd typically design an opener around what the Human player does, or is likely to do, with each nation, and for anything more complex than a Revised of v3 or 1942.2 then use the bid to balance by sides or player skill. Computer opponent will just always fail there though. The Computer Opponent can't parse the map properly when the rules become very complex, it has no grasp of strategy or how the game is actually won, likewise if the opener is particularly nuanced, and if there's a unit type or rule it doesn't understand, it can't cover vs those exploits. So just like playing against a newbie, I think there, the idea is just to give the computer an absurdly large bid (in this case a resource Modifier I guess?) so it can bumble into providing an effective challenge and keep pace with the player, just through sheer weight of numbers.

I also think that having an alternative combat method/sequence, alt unit roster with novel interactions, or purchasing/production mechanics etc. this all makes it very hard for me to approach the game with my usual A&A rubric to even know where to begin. My theory is that with a larger map, high production high economy etc. then the simpler and more familiar the unit roster would be a place to start, juar cause then the new player has more of an anchor on what's going on. Though often it goes in the other direction, like large map with more units, larger scale and novelty pushed on everything. But then I tend to view maps like this as just trying to push the game engine in new directions, places it hasn't really gone, or that I haven't seen yet at least. I just don't think A&A is a useful analog, since the gameplay is more similar to say a Total War type 4x-ish game, just with the WW2 type skin on it I suppose, probably more entertaining for a solitaire and painting the map your color.

I can't really speak to the gameplay as it compares to A&A, other than the sorts of things I was trying in those various test runs or ideas kicking around. Modifying the map by itself and filling in unit graphics gaps on request was a challenge enough for me. I do think it's possible to take a map like this and make a PvP game out of it, perhaps just using v3 or something with tech tokens with a more standard tourney style bid for opener variety? but I'd have no clue how to rework it along those lines. I was pretty reliant on the battle calc and blind experimentation to start seeing how the units actually interacted with each at scale over successive rounds/games, which to me looked nothing like A&A, and more like beat up on the computer, figure it out as I went and then just see if it felt like WW2-ish the playpattern.

There's a gang of stuff in the xml that I don't understand, so I'd have to defer there, cause there's a bunch in the grab bag hehe. From a map design standpoint the things that intrigued me most were just seeing if something at 8000p would even work in tripleA, and like if the relief could be made modular and all that stuff. With the rest as sort of a bonus. The extra tank types and terrain effects, a production spread at base 1 (rather than base zero for TT values). Income attached directly to SZ tiles. Cheap production that can be destroyed, or somehow building rail for M3 into that on the ground. These are all ideas carried over from the A&A framework, like HRs, but the bones on it the stuff the Dog wanted to run with. I had fun with it, but I'm still not sure I got my head around it all haha

Cool to see it in the repository though! Fastest way to improve on a concept would be to grab a handful of players and run it through it's paces. Although duos vs the machine, or pvp with a computer albatross on each side, probably wouldn't be the most popular. I think for that you'd want more of a PvP frame on it, 2 players controlling each nation (by sides), but then it's just running openers for a year or more probably to sort that, or a massive bid for all to kick the can so far on balance that it's remains a perpetual mystery. For a first out I'd just take control of Germany or USSR or like any one nation and see how far you can manage vs the comp controlling everyone else. Cause that's what I did lol.

I got continuously rocked to the floor until I figured out what was going on with some of this stuff that the Dog wanted to test out, the order of battle, the production/costs, rail and terrain movement, standard tech unlocks, maintenance etc. lol. Like it's a lot to have going on, even without a G40-esqe politics phase (which the computer also never understands.) I'm not sure new work, if any will materialize for the hardAI in triplea, so this map is just trying to bend tripleA to do certain surprising things in a way that allows of WW2 vibe in a 4x type framework. Like a pact of steel sort of thing I suppose, but where the A&A just goes off the rails into something else. Maybe a bid could work, I honestly have no idea what would need the tweak to make that happen though, probably easier to edit mode the scenario and just move whatever directly maybe?

[wc_sumpton]

@black_elk

LOL! WoW, now I understand!! For this map this has a simple fix. First triggers should never be attached to "Bid" steps, as these may or may not happen. Like the "Information" screens. But on this map the "Tech" steps can be moved to happen prior to the "Bid" steps, then all these "Pre" triggers can be attached to the "Tech". Thus you have you cake, bids, information screen and eat it all also!!

Cheers...

P.S. Yep, this does work, it allows for the change of ownership to happen prior to the bid purchase/place.

Also my apologies to @ezgaming. Sorry man, did not understand what the problem was.

Cheers...

[TheDog]

@ezgaming
Im so glad you came by to make GCD better.

Here is a fix, Im hoping its the fix, but please test.
1941_global_command_decision.xml

Overwrite your current file, its usually here on Windows (copy & paste into your file manager)
C:\Users\%USERNAME%\triplea\downloadedMaps\1941_global_command_decision\map\games

I will post/publish it when this is tested.

@Black_Elk
You did mention the Bid problem, but it got lost in all the other stuff that was wrong, until now. Hopefully bids now work as intended.

@Black_Elk & @wc_sumpton Thanks for the help!

Changes are
Moved Tech block before Bid block
Line 6363 changed from 0EndTurn to Tech
Line 6371 changed from 0EndTurn to Tech
Line 6424 changed from GermanyCombatMove to GermanyTechActivation

EDIT: Update Bid placing of Ships in owned SZ with own ships does not work.

[beelee]

@thedog GCD is a cool abbreviation/acronym. I always think of gummies for some reason though

Good Action Dog !

[TheDog]

Like Haribo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcE1Z3KDYrc

[TheDog]

@ezgaming said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

but it is what it is so I need a new gaming PC.

Depending where you live in the world?
I was going to buy this, but thought I will make do, so did not buy in the end.
https://www.currys.co.uk/products/medion-erazer-engineer-x31-gaming-pc-intel-core-i7-rtx-4060-ti-1-tb-ssd-10254465.html
Usually I buy Dell or HP. Medion is a German brand, I have had one before with no faults, but is owned by Lenovo, so ...

---

Back to GCD, when you and your group come to a consensus, post back here as we would like to know your bids/suggestions.

[TheDog]

@ezgaming and @all
Update Bid placing of Ships in owned SZ with own ships does not work.

[wc_sumpton]

@thedog

This is a new problem with 2.6. If "isAI" commented/changed and version number changed to 2.5, then placement of sea units is possible in 2.5.

In 2.6 there is an error recorded in triplea.log file which captures the placement problem. Suggestion create a save game file and create a GitHub error and include a copy of the recorded error.

I would do this but as of right now my GCD file has a lot of modifications, and should not be used to make the save game.

Sorry

Cheers...

[TheDog]

Thanks, I ran out time, I will GitHub tonight or tomorrow morning.

EDIT: raised
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/12376

[beelee]

@thedog added 2.6 to it. I know you have it in the title but it looks a little more eye catching to me

[beelee]

@TheDog something real weird with this one https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/12379

Looks like the doc folder for GCD is in WW II Global ?

@wc_sumpton what do you make of this ?

Edit
Seems as if it went wrong here https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/12365/commits/82ee763a227f230af643d49dd5dccf0c139b35d2

This is showing for the UHD global map.

Edit 2
Actually i read it wrong. That should be ok

[beelee]

@ezgaming this actually was a bug https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/12373 myrd fixed it

[ezgaming]

@beelee AWESOME

THX for telling me

[TheDog]

• The latest TripleA release has a bid placement ship fix. (Thanks Myrd/asvitkine for the quick fix)
• This map has a xml fix for bids to work as intended

But bid ship placement on this map is limited to;

• Having own ships in the SZ
• Having a suitable factory ie. Industry-Med or Industry-Hvy on adjacent land.

For this map, the above works.

Is this how it is meant to be for A&A maps?
Perhaps someone else can check/test?

@beelee does ship bid placement work on your UHD map?

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@ezgaming & others
go here for TripleA latest
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases

v165 1941 Global Command Decision here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kdDueu55skGDNIoo2ohFWdN9BGjFW6LG/view?usp=sharing

Note v165 is NOT yet available as a direct update inside TripleA

But you can remove the old version and reinstall the new version by;
TripleA Downloads> Installed tab> Highlight 1941 Global Command Decision> Remove
Once removed on New Maps tab and reinstall 1941 Global Command Decision

[wc_sumpton]

@thedog said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

But bid ship placement on this map is limited to;

Having own ships in the SZ
Having a suitable factory ie. Industry-Med or Industry-Hvy on adjacent land.

For this map, the above works.

I don't think this is correct per axisandallies wiki. Bid unit can be placed in any controlled territory. In normal A&A sea zone territories cannot be controlled, so a sea unit needs to be present to allow placement. No production is needed to place bid unit.

Other House Rules for bid placement may require only 1 unit per territory. But I don't think TripleA should enforce this.

Thoughts and 2 cents.

Cheers...

[beelee]

@thedog yea idk. I've never really used the bid feature before. Always just edited in the extra dudes at game start.

I'll give it a whirl and see what comes up.

Edit
Looks as if Myrd has fixed this https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/12381

Edit 2
Merged your 165 update

[TheDog]

Thanks for checking/testing this.

Yes Myrds merge allows ship bid placement to work but maybe not as intended

Thanks for the merge, just tested it, it has no effect in 2.6 as 2.6 does not check versions. As this version of download is temporary, Im OK with its current state.