TripleA Logo TripleA Forum
    • TripleA Website
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Tags
    • Register
    • Login

    Improve Battle Calc Unit Ordering

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Feature Requests & Ideas
    20 Posts 6 Posters 7.1k Views 6 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • redrumR Offline
      redrum Admin
      last edited by redrum

      For some complex maps, the unit ordering doesn't seem to make much sense as can be seen for TWW where AA gun, AT gun, and Fighter seem out of place:
      0_1517596442489_7a39d641-c586-46aa-a31d-d652f45f48ad-image.png

      The reason for this is that the engine currently doesn't keep the ordering from the Production Frontier in the XML and then applies the following sorting for land battles:

      1. Land Units
      2. Air Units
      3. AA Units (any unit with any type of AA attack)
      4. Naval Bombard Units

      This works well for simple unit sets but any map that uses AA to have units target specific other units then ends up with those units sorted at the bottom after air units as can be seen above (AA gun, AT gun, Fighter) which all have an AA type attack.

      I'm proposing to have it respect production frontier ordering and change to the following sorting:

      1. Land Units
      2. Air Units
      3. Non-attacking Land Units (have 0 movement or can't move during combat move)
      4. Naval Bombard Units

      This helps in a few ways:

      1. Keeps the current functionality of true AA guns in v2, v3, and global sorted at the end
      2. Allows units like fighter and AT guns (AA attack units that can combat move) to fit with their normal groups
      3. Helps align the battle calc window for attackers and defenders (puts defend only units towards the bottom)
      4. Allows map makers to specify order in production frontier which is respected within the above groups

      After changes:
      0_1517604580250_8d296806-7cc5-4d8f-b5d2-d14201efb8c3-image.png

      PR: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/2941

      TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

      HeppsH C 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • HeppsH Offline
        Hepps Moderators @redrum
        last edited by

        @redrum The other question is would having a better setup/ordering in the production frontier address this as well?

        "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
        Hepster

        redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • redrumR Offline
          redrum Admin @Hepps
          last edited by

          @hepps In theory, we could remove the sorting all together and take what is in the production frontier as the order. The problem with that would be if you add units to the production frontier then they would appear at the end with no sorting.

          TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

          HeppsH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • HeppsH Offline
            Hepps Moderators @redrum
            last edited by Hepps

            @redrum No what I meant was... can the entire system (with your proposed changes) also be improved by detailing in the POS2 XML that during the design phase.... BC display results can be improved with a standardized set up/unit ordering.

            "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
            Hepster

            redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • redrumR Offline
              redrum Admin @Hepps
              last edited by

              @hepps Ah, yes. In general, map makers should order units in the production frontier in the order they would like them displayed. A note should probably be added to POS2 XML to that point.

              TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

              HeppsH 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • HeppsH Offline
                Hepps Moderators @redrum
                last edited by

                @redrum 😃

                "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
                Hepster

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • HeppsH Offline
                  Hepps Moderators @redrum
                  last edited by

                  @redrum I find that if we did some work on being very clear in POS2 (since it is already such a great tool for map-makers) the quality of new submissions would be greatly improved.

                  "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
                  Hepster

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • redrumR Offline
                    redrum Admin
                    last edited by

                    After the changes here is the result for TWW:
                    0_1517601130873_c7c62c00-df22-4f3b-8fd6-92302e0e1fdc-image.png

                    Definitely better though I'd argue that @Hepps should re-order the production frontier to have AT gun right after artillery and naval fighters right after fighter 🙂

                    TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                    HeppsH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                    • HeppsH Offline
                      Hepps Moderators @redrum
                      last edited by Hepps

                      @redrum I down voted your post. 😃

                      But truth be told the new ordering seems to be a nice improvement.

                      "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
                      Hepster

                      redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                      • redrumR Offline
                        redrum Admin @Hepps
                        last edited by

                        @hepps Now my forum reputation is ruined... Only thing to do is down vote your down vote response 🙂

                        TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                        HeppsH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • HeppsH Offline
                          Hepps Moderators @redrum
                          last edited by Hepps

                          @redrum LMAO!!!! This is going to get ugly.

                          We are both going to go from respected members to horribly disdained people.

                          To quote a beautiful mind... "Vengeance is the most assured path to mutual destruction. "

                          "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
                          Hepster

                          prastleP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • prastleP Offline
                            prastle Moderators Admin @Hepps
                            last edited by

                            @hepps @redrum Gigglez

                            If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future! Sir Winston Churchill

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • redrumR Offline
                              redrum Admin
                              last edited by

                              PR submitted: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/2941

                              TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • redrumR Offline
                                redrum Admin
                                last edited by

                                @Frostion This change for example improves the ordering for Iron War as well. Probably affects a few of your other maps too (most likely for the better).

                                Before (weird seemingly random order):
                                0_1517606337428_76db9a53-e596-4d52-8291-e62b3ad84e77-image.png

                                After (much smoother/logical ordering):
                                0_1517606374427_7f0bda04-49e9-4b55-9d2b-df5088b32ffd-image.png

                                TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • General_ZodG Offline
                                  General_Zod Moderators
                                  last edited by

                                  @redrum

                                  If the productionFrontier is triggered to remove once available units from a nations production.

                                  And there is still some of that unit type on the map. Will it still be listed in the BC?

                                  redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • redrumR Offline
                                    redrum Admin @General_Zod
                                    last edited by

                                    @general_zod Yeah. The way it works is it takes all the units from the production frontier first then checks all your owned units that are on the map and adds in any that aren't in the production frontier at the end.

                                    TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • FrostionF Offline
                                      Frostion Admin
                                      last edited by

                                      @redrum
                                      This change looks great! The difference between something good and something great is attention to detail 😃

                                      Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • C Offline
                                        Cernel Moderators @redrum
                                        last edited by

                                        @redrum 0 movement doesn't imply that the unit is non-attacking, as you can have it movement boosted or transported or, anyways, movement 0 units can attack in contested territories (for example, the Fortress of Napoleonic Empires FFA, when downgrading to war, that have also attack 4, but would attack if having attack 0 too). Of course, in the basic rules games there are no ways a movement 0 unit can attack. But in the moment more games are made in which there are limited combat rounds and you can place units in hostile territory, this occurrence becomes less marginal (for Napoleonic Empires FFA, attacking movement 0 units were specifically wanted, of course).

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • C Offline
                                          Cernel Moderators @redrum
                                          last edited by

                                          @redrum I'm also not convinced that either movement 0 or cannot combat move units at end is always preferable.
                                          For example, if I make a "static infantry" unit that it is 0/1, movement 1 and cannot move during combat move, I think that would be better displayed before the "infantry".
                                          The same in case territories have movement 0 units already in it, maybe defence 1 simple ones, to represent territorial militia, or something the like (would make more sense being first, as being the foremost fodder).
                                          I believe the ordering would be better if by the same order in which defender casualties are preselected in the battlecalculator. This would also help, especially in PBEM games, in knowing in advance what the order will be, for the defender (of course, this should be documented, to let people know). In this case, a bunker would be still last, if it would be the unit that the battlecalculator would kill last.
                                          The main reason I can see for not having a "bunker", or anyways defence only unit, at the start is that would push down all other defending units, losing the alignment with the attacking ones, so I'm making a feature request specifically for overcoming that issue, another way.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • C Offline
                                            Cernel Moderators @redrum
                                            last edited by

                                            @redrum I think it woud be just better letting the mapmakers able to define if a movement 0 or cannot combat move unit should stay at the start or at the end or somewhere else in the list, by their order in the production frontier. Alternatively, I would go with the battlecalculator order (so, a 0/1 immobile unit would be first, and a 0/4 immobile unit would be last). For the problem of defence only units pushing the defence listing only down (like in the case of your first image, in which the alpine infantry is pushed down from 1st to 3rd position by the two immobile units), deteriorating simmetry, I've opened this f.r., that would cover that (the solution would be pushing down the attacking alpine infantry too, leaving empty spaces):
                                            https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/695/always-align-the-same-named-units-in-the-battlecalculator-if-any

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0

                                            Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.

                                            Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.

                                            With your input, this post could be even better 💗

                                            Register Login
                                            • 1 / 1
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Copyright © 2016-2018 TripleA-Devs | Powered by NodeBB Forums