Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread

Frostion

I generally agree that the artillery could be made a bit more interesting, so that players would want to have different kinds of art.illery in different situations. This would spice up the game.

I was thinking maybe like this:

*Catapult Unit (4 Att / 4 Def)
*Catapult Shot (First strike, 4 Att / 4 Def vs. Land Units, 0-1 Bombardment vs. Factories)
**Ballista Unit (5 Att / 5 Def)
**Balista Shot (First strike, 5 Att / 5 Def vs. Air Units, 0-2 Bombardment vs. Factories)
***Trebuchet Unit (6 Att / 6 Def)
***Trebuchet Shot (First strike, 6 Att / 6 Def vs. Sea Units, 0-3 Bombardment vs. Factories)

Catapult Unit would be the weakest unit on its own. But at the same time, it would be the only unit capable of using its Shots against enemy land units, near and far. Making this a pretty good unit to have in the army, so that you can “thin out” or "harass" the enemy before real battle begins. Or just to fire at enemies that try to run past you or who is just camping.

Ballista Unit would be a stronger unit. But Ballista-Shots would be the only Shots capable of hitting Air Units, near and far. And Air Units, if present, are in general more treasured buy their owners than random 1 HP land units. So any enemy would hesitate having Air Units within range of Ballista, as the Shots would have 50% chance of killing an Air Unit.

Trebuchet Unit would be the strongest unit by its own (most men working it and protecting it). Its Shots would be the only Shots capable of hitting the expensive Sea Units. It would be good as coastal defense, as well as be the strongest bombard unit of the three.

Have no idea about the prices for the above yet. Most likely as they are now.
This job distribution would also make a little sense if you think: Land Units = closest enemies, so hit buy catapult, Air Units = mid ranged and hit buy ballista, Sea Units = Furthest away, so Treb is good. (Even though all the shots would technically have Movement 1 )

TheDog

Yes thats looking good.
If its not listed, then I assume that its not at range 1, so same territory only ?

TheDog

Night Elves
Ceremonial Fire 3x Wisps 1 1 1 30pu 100oil
Can be placed in any owned Territory
The Tool Tips need to reflect the Ceremonial Fire transmutes into 3 Wisps
and
Undead
3x Skeletons 1 1 1 15pu 15mana
Need Sevis & Factory to be placed

These are similar, but their costs are not.

Dwarf Riflemen, cannot be bought in the Buy phase, but can only be Mustered, is this intentional?
If so there should be a Tool Tip.

HP: 2 Units
WoW 2HP.jpg
I cannot work out how you have calculated the unit costs, so I will draw some comparisons.
The Gunship should cost more Oil.
The Abomination should cost more Gold (Bold Red)
Dire Troll should cost a lot more Gold (Bold Red)

Frostion

@TheDog I actually thought Riflemen was scrapped from the game, LOL. I think the Dwarves already have their 5 special units, like all other races. So maybe Riflemen will be removed, unless I figure out how they could fit in.

In regards to unit cost of all the special units: You can/must ONLY compare their PUs cost. Any cost effectiveness should ONLY take the PU cost in mind. When it comes to special units, then their Mana, Oil and Gold cost is ONLY there to determine how high/low unit availability is, how many of this unit should the player be allowed to spawn thought out the game.

All the special units should be much better than standard units when it comes to cost/effectiveness, so that the player would buy the units whenever possible. The only thing holding mass production back should be the available Mana, Oil and Gold (gold being the only resource also used to buy something else (factories)).

This means that units costing 30 PUs + 50 Mana would/should most likely result in the player buying twice the amount throughout a game, compared to if the unit cost 30 PUs + 100 Mana.

Only taking PUs in mind and the effectiveness of units, I am not really sure how much comparisons and price balancing I have done by now. I think I did price balancing in the beginning of the map making process, but at some point I began tweaking every race's prices individually, and I have quite frankly not recently given special unit prices that much priority and thought. But I probably will by the next update.

It is not at all a simple thing to set PU prices on 2HP units, positive and negative support units, and on the top that, support units only giving support to certain units. No easy task

TheDog

@Frostion
Thanks for explaining how PU relates to other resources.

So to Origins.

The above table attempts to show how important the Origins are.

They are split into two groups, Frequency used per turn;
High - used every turn
Situational

So to rebalance the Origins the
1 XP could be removed from the High Origins or
Reduce all the Resource bonus say by 1, so PU would go down from 4 to 3PU.

Also it would be good if the Origins list displayed could reflect the two major groups just by changing the order they are displayed.

The High Frequency Origin Resources should be displayed in the order that they appear as in the Resource status row at the bottom of the main screen, perhaps in the order of the table?

TheDog

Is it possible to hard code the AI to have the first four Origins?

Tool Tips Change all Fiendly :angry_face_with_horns: to Friendly

Tool Tips Origin Seafarer should also say, you must own the Territory Port/Harbourer to be able to place the Workboat.

TheDog

@Frostion
Each Item (Treasure) has an associated PU value, is this its relative worth?

What does the AI do with this PU? (Nothing or is it used for placing, capturing etc)

Is it possible, however unlikely, that all the 25PU items could be placed very near each other?

Frostion

@TheDog said in Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread:

@Frostion
Each Item (Treasure) has an associated PU value, is this its relative worth?

What does the AI do with this PU? (Nothing or is it used for placing, capturing etc)

Is it possible, however unlikely, that all the 25PU items could be placed very near each other?

The PU values are only used by the AI to figure out what to capture, what is worth alot And what is worth a little less. And it seems to work. At least it seems like the AI is pretty focused on rushing towards the closest Port. Especially Tauren, Orcs and Unread clearly does this.

I have not noticed if the AI places totally random or if the PU value affects the pattern of placements. If it does then at least all items and resource generators should have the exact same PU value.

TheDog

@Frostion
Thanks for the explanation.

Items (Treasure)
Here are a few suggestions that I value differently.
Long-Range-Artillery 25PU Gives All Friendly Shots +1 Movement
Horn-of-Cenarius 15PU Gives 5 Friendly Ranged Units +3 Targeted Power

The replacement Ranged Weapons PU are too cheap, they have a Combat and XP component and should cost more than 25PU, but I think you have imposed a 25PU limit?
As an example The Crystal Ball is 25PU and is +5XP
The Magic Bow is 25PU and is +10XP and has a Target Power: 7

So Ranged Weapons XP should be reduced. To rebalance these items they should generate a lot less XP.
Suggest taking the current PU / 5 = new XP value.
This on average would generate 1/2 of the current XP.

TheDog

@Frostion

Air Power
The table below attempts to compare air power.

Consider changing to the following;
Hippogryph 25PU and 35Mana as its PU appears too cheap and its a transport 25 for being a flyer + 5 for each TC = 35mana

Airship/Zeppelin as they are transport 25oil for being a flyer + 5 for each TC = 50oil

Wind-Hexer is difficult to balance, 40PU (because of the 4Atk) and 25mana to match the other non-transport flyers.

The Oil/mana cost as you have said is more subjective depending on the races forces and how many of that type you want.

For now I have done reporting on "things" so I will await the next version.

TheDog

@Frostion
I cant help myself thinking more about Fortifications/Factories they are still too easy to take, perhaps in addition to their archers they should provide support to allied units, as they garrison it.
Eg.
Guard-Tower: Support on Defence: to 1 Allied Unit,
Capital: to 5 Allied Units
or similar.

Also noticed this
Line 15736 I think should say <option name="players" value="$AllPlayers$"/>
as its missing
There are many missing $AllPlayers$ lines, are they required?

ff03k64

Just wondering if there is anything downloadable for this yet. Thanks!

Panther

@ff03k64 Find it ingame:

ff03k64

Totally missed that, thanks!

ff03k64

A couple of thoughts. Put the notifications in your game notes so that users can read them before we start a game.

You have a notification about setting pause duration to 0. If I am reading that correctly, it is in the "Engine Preferences" on the "AI" tab?

Couple of questions.
Do i want to read this whole thread before playing the game?

Do we still need to use the pre release version like it says? i am guessing that that particular note was from pre triplea 2.0?

TheDog

@ff03k64

No dont read the whole thread, enjoy the game first. If you are moved to post, read from post 230, Frostions update near the top of page 12, Im sure he would like your opinion.

Yes download the latest test version 2 from here.
[https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases](link url)

You probably want the Windows 64 bit version, near the bottom of the latest release, click on it to download it.

ff03k64

I am on version 0.1.4, TripleA version 2.1.2076

My comments/questions so far. I am on turn 10.

I think that there is some useful information that could go in the game notes, maybe some of it can go in an appendix at the end. Some as in my previous comment. But at least one new as well.
The starting 'perks', for lack of better word, would be nice to see them all at once to compare them, instead of just tooltips.
It seems like all 'resource elements' and 'creeps' are randomly located? Could mention that in the notes.
hero progression would be nice to have in the notes, unless it is randomized.

Jagged reef has a horde stronghold, which creates and maintains a footman. It seems that if that 'resource element' (i think that is what they are called in the notes) is captured by the alliance, what happens to the footman? it seems like they stay, but my brain makes me think they should go away.

Unless i am not reading the map right, i can't tell how many hp a hero has.
And how does a hero regenerate hp normally? only in an outpost, or can they regenerate slower outside outposts?

Can you upgrade the 'creep' factories that you capture?

How does xp collecting work? It obviously is collected by the hero when they are in fight. It looks like some can be collected in other fights too? It seems like if the hero isn't involved in a fight, there shouldn't be any xp generated.

ff03k64

The item 'Rapid-Foot-Standard' didn't seem to work. When i clicked the button to see units with movement left, it would go to the footmen, but they couldn't move anymore.

The Gnome capital seemed to go over to nature right at the start. Specifically, 'Trogg-Savages' were there at the start of the game.

Zjelcop

@Frostion

is it okay if i post some screenshots of this work of art on the Facebookpage or would you prefer to have it finished and tested first?

Cheers Zjelco

Frostion

@Zjelcop Go ahead and post. Just remember to state that it is an unfinished "work in progress" map. I have intentions og getting back to work and development on this map, but right now it seems that my RL takes up too much time. I hope to find time in the future I see that I got some feedback posts to read at some point!