TripleA Logo TripleA Forum
    • TripleA Website
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Tags
    • Register
    • Login

    Player Bonus Settings Revamp

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Feature Requests & Ideas
    86 Posts 9 Posters 66.2k Views 9 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • C Offline
      Cernel Moderators
      last edited by

      .Other Sources Multiplication

      I've seen that the PUs flux generated by the units themselves is added up too, like normal income, and, then, the total income flux is multiplied, which here is definitely the way to go, since you may have units producing only 1 or -1 PUs each. So, all good, here.

      <option name="createsResourcesList" value="3:PUs"/>
      <option name="createsResourcesList" value="2:techTokens"/>
      

      Also notice that in cases like:

      <option name="createsResourcesList" value="-3:PUs"/>
      

      this is the normal way of implementing maintainment costs.

      Of course, all income given via national objectives should be surely multiplied, after having been summed up with any other income flux, at End Turn:

      <option name="objectiveValue" value="4"/>
      

      I tested the engine behaviour is already optimal, in this regard, multiplying (if I see it correctly) all the income flux at end turn, no matter if it comes from normal collection or from national objectives, and I think this is the best (normal collection and national objectives income being treated the same, and all summed up like it is just all normal collection, before multiplying). So, all good, here.

      A similar way to give income, instead of objectives, is with triggers.
      Actually, objectives are substantially redundant, as I could do all with triggers and conditions, instead of objectives.
      As a matter of actual gameplay, if I have a national objective giving some PUs or I have a trigger firing under the same conditions, after the same end turn, the result is the same. Thus, I could substitute all national objectives in all games with analogue triggers firing after end turn, and nothing would change, except only that in the EndTurn Reports they are identified as triggers (but the information given is substantially the same).
      I've tested and can confirm that triggers giving "resource" and having no "when" specified, thus firing at End Turn, appear to be handled just like the objectives. So, all good, here, hopefully.
      More in general, I believe also whatever resources given specifically by triggers should be multiplied too, but I'm unsure, on this point. One might argue that, with triggers, I can give 3 more infantry or 10 more PUs; since the triggered infantries are not multiplied, one may argue it would make sense for the PUs not to be, as well.
      However, as I said, my opinion is that trigger given resources should be subjected to multiplication too (and it seems they already are).
      While triggers giving resources firing before or after End Turn should probably be summed up with whatever other income (normal production, objectives and units resource creation), and the total net flux getting multiplied (it seems it currently already works this way, but I've not fully tested, especially not tested triggers firing before End Turn, instead of after it, as default), triggers giving resources firing not during an End Turn phase I believe should be summed up between all those firing at the exact same moment (in this case, "after" and "before" a same phase would be not the same moment), and the total flux at that point be multiplied (I've not tested if it already works this way).

      <option name="resource" value="PUs"/>
      <option name="resourceCount" value="4"/>
      

      .True Multiplication

      I want now to make a marginal case in favour of this new property being configured as a full multiplier, instead of as a bonus; meaning also working on the negative.
      A very marginal example can be seen if, for example, you have production 6 and a national objective of -10 (for example, in Napoleonic Empires, Spain reduced to the capital only), making your net collection equal to -4; I think that if you have a bonus at 25%, then you should get -5, instead of only -4 (currently, when the net flux is negative, the bonus is just ineffective, instead).
      In this case, these bonuses would be not bonuses anymore, but multipliers, thus the name would need to be changed to:

      "Spain Income Multiplier Percentage"

      I actually would make it shorter as:

      "Spain Income Multiplier %"

      Also, surely in this case, yet anyhow, I would set the default value to 100, where 100 means that we are multiplying by 100%, thus no change (this way, the values would go from 0 to infinite, instead of from -100 to infinite, that seems more logical, in my mind).
      Actually, I would prefer the default being 1 (as the "Multiply PUs"), but only as long as you can add decimals (like "1.25").

      .Report Rewording

      I think the wording of the bonus income may be improved; it is like:

      Giving player bonus income (25%) of 6 PUs; end with 29 PUs

      I see there are the parenthesis, and the wording itself is correct, but the position makes me instinctively think that we are saying "25% of 6 PUs".
      Maybe better if it reads:

      Giving player 25% bonus income of 6 PUs; end with 29 PUs

      Also, if this would be a multiplier, on the negative (if in a turn we collect a net negative amount of PUs) we could have, either:

      Giving player 25% bonus income of -4 PUs

      or

      Giving player 25% malus income of 4 PUs

      .Options Listing

      I see that, as now, the listing is in alphabetical order; I really disagree with that, as it is not really helpful for anything.
      I guess the simplest and most obvious way is just having it listed by the turn player order, which is how you normally list players, and this should be useful to quickly assign what you want in maps you know very well.

      My preference would be listing by the turn order, but grouping up the alliances, prioritising depending on the player starting fist among the ones of a same alliance.

      So, for example, in v3 it would be:
      Germans
      Japanese
      Italians
      Russians
      British
      Americans
      Chinese

      Or in v2 it would be:
      Russians
      British
      Americans
      Germans
      Japanese

      This would be user friendly the most, in most cases, in my mind, as you just assign the bonus you want to (I'm guessing over 90% times the same for all players of a same side), having to look only at the first and the last one, filling everything else in between too.
      Of course, any mapmakers is able to set the bonus in the xml, to configure the listing as he finds functional the most, but this will be true only for a very small fraction of played games.

      .Other Considerations

      As a final warning, there will be all of a series of specific cases, like the malus income from blockades or the different kind of bombing rules, etc., that may or may not have to be taken into account, as sources of serious distortions.

      For example, I would argue that if a player gets a percent bonus income, and especially (but not only) if this effects its placement limits of the same amount, then the max cap for bombing raiding under v3 rules should be increased of the same amount (the cap for bombing in v3 is default equal to 2 times the production value of the bombed territory).
      Since bombing is already a borderline strategy, usually balanced so to be hardly worthwhile to pursue, you can see that if in v3 we just multiply income and placement, nobody will, then, decide to bomb a player that gets a considerable percent boost, just because of how scarcely effective would that be (you would need to outsmart the AI rather than engaging in an economic bombing war you virtually can't win, due to the economic bonuses), and this would be distortive, especially depending on how much bombing is a factor in that particular map (there are a lot of maps in which you can totally play by never bombing at all, but this should not be assumed).
      Since I don't think there is any maps in which bombing is the necessary way to go, I imagine that here the matter would be limited to a loss of gameplay variety, rather than being highly game-changing.
      More problematic may be rather the reverse: if I give +25% bonus to the AI, then a smart AI might be expected to mostly spam bombers, as the best way to win.

      As another example, I would surely argue that the cost of buying tech (via "techTokens" or directly) should be multiplied of the same amount as the bonus income.
      For example, if you have bonus income 100%, then you earn two times the money and, if buying tech costs the same, then you would end up, at least for most of the techs, to have a much better relative value for investing in tech; thus, if you double the income, while the cost of tech is the same, you should more than double the amount of money you spend in tech, and this is distortive.
      Thus, I think that if the income gets a 50% bonus, also the cost of the tech should increase by 50% (like from 5 to 8 or 7).
      In the case of tech giving an income boost, this is obvious, as that boost should (and already is) be multiplied as well.
      For example, if you have a 50% income bonus, all your income should be multiplied, after adding a +1d6 bonus income from tech (thus multiplying it too), if you have it (as it actually already works). In this case, it is obvious that the cost of the tech should be increased by 50%, or the balancing between tech costs and benefits would be broken. You can see that if you have a bonus income of 100%, and (as it already works) you get twice a 1d6 bonus for warbonds, it would make the only sense that the tech cost of researching warbonds is doubled too.

      However, I tend to think we (and here I mean you or any developers) can add up all the specific cases, as progressive refinements, after the system is all there for the basics; likely each one of them will have to be singularly argued upon.

      Also, this whole matter reminds me that you may want to make this change (both in the starting menu and in the in-game "Game" menu):

      Map Options->Rules Options
      (or "Gameplay Options")

      Since normally a "map" is the whole folder, and can have more than 1 xml in it (and the options are specified in the xml, not in any properties inside the map's folder).

      You can imagine this post took some time to be formulated, so I hope it will be justifiably helpful (actually, split into 2 posts, because it was too long for the forum).

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • Black_ElkB Offline
        Black_Elk
        last edited by Black_Elk

        Real quick, just to explain why I said I thought that having the bonus assigned by player nation would be cool. I was thinking about this mainly from a PvP perspective, because I think it's a novel and relatively simple way to balance these types of games by sides. Of course it also has applications for the AI, but it doesn't have to be exclusive to the AI.

        So just as an example in a game like v5 or v6, (both of which are heavily slanted towards Axis), the Russian or American player might be awarded a smaller recurring income bonus rather than a large pre-placement bid, as a way to correct the perceived imbalances baked into those games.

        Or similarly if a player is inexperienced with a particular map, it is likely much more forgiving on the newb to receive a moderate recurring income bonus that kicks in every round, as opposed to a large one-time bid that they might not even know how to use effectively for that particular map.

        So its more than just a suggestion aimed at the AI, it's a proposed alternative to the bidding process that could serve as a standard game option. I like this for a number of reasons, but the main one is that it's somewhat less disruptive to the opening round/turn than bid, which allows the map creator to still craft a cool script, with all the expected 'gives and takes' or interesting TUV trades, by pushing out the advantage over several rounds.

        I like that in the last pre-release you had the option to give universal income bonus to all AI players or an option to assign the Bonus individually by Player Nation.

        I still think it might be helpful to have a universal AI bonus by team/side. Since then you have a couple nice default options for designing the income balance for any particular match, that allows a good degree of customization with either a Bid or Bonus (or both if desired.)

        I think there is room for a flat rate/percentage toggle. Just make these like a single checkbox, so it doesn't take up a ton of UI space to switch between them.

        My comment about playing mainly with percentage lately might be more about the specific maps I've been playing.

        I think flat rate might also be closer to the table top experience for some players. Where having a hard number is just more convenient or more potent than a percentage.

        One thing I've always loved (and which requires constant editing) is the idea of ascending flat rate income bonuses. So the idea of round 1 = +1 PU, round 2= +2 PU and so on. It's a fun way to up the stakes as the game goes on. Or conceivably you could do a descending penalty -1 PU per round. And it could be a way to encourage/discourage game resolution depending the desires or the playgroup.

        I think you could cover a lot of ground with a limited number of options, but I certainly still see the possibilities of allowing the ability to do the same types of things with production capacity. I just don't know that I'd want them default attached to one another because they could be used to do different things. Like you could create a high economy for a low production map, or vice versa. Or Similarly you could just create a high economy with high production version of the map.

        I think each of these options are put into effect according to player preference. Some people like to restrict the money/units/production that enter play as a way to speed things up. Others prefer the opposite. So I like the idea of more options.

        Probably easier to keep flat rate on offer. I think it could be just like a universal switch. For the field to be percentage or flat rate.

        I also don't know which would be more interesting for something like fuel. Or for other resources that are meant to either be diminishing over time, or expanding over time. So it just seems like it would be cool to have options there.

        For the A&A style maps, I think there are some simple standards that could develop PvP. More complex maps, (I've been playing Iron War mostly) have me just wanting more options to tweak the income for the AI to make it challenging, so I like having all the things, for as far as the UI has the space.

        C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • C Offline
          Cernel Moderators @Black_Elk
          last edited by

          @Black_Elk In my mind, from a traditional boardgame perspective, the cleanest way to give a better bonus than a bid, to rebalance the setup without altering its concept too much, would be a per player flat bonus that also adds the same placement bonus in the capital, that would equal just increasing a capital income.
          For example, to rebalance WWIIv6 I could give a "Capital Production Bonus" of 3 (and we could bid about its value), that would have these effects:

          • Give +3 PUs Russians start game
          • Increase Russians income collection of 3 PUs per round (flat bonus, but only as long as you can collect / have your capital)
          • Increase Russians placement abilities in capital by 3

          However, I think this concept is not sound for TripleA, since you may have games having a number of capitals per player different from 1.

          Another thing I thought is that there may be a boolean option for the percent bonus also giving a starting bid equal to that same percent of the player's starting TUV, but I discarded this proposal, as I believe it would be just kind of strange, that is probably better letting the players manage to set both a percent bonus and some bids themselves. Of course, this would dramatically increase the effect of the percent bonus, if it also increases starting TUV accordingly, in the form of a bid. Moreover, it would need stricter bid rules, in which you can only place 1 unit per territory and only in a territory having already exactly that type of unit.
          For example, this would mean that in v6, if you give a 10% income bonus to Russians, then Russians also get 8 bid.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • FrostionF Offline
            Frostion Admin
            last edited by Frostion

            I have a question concerning the new individual player bonus income percentage.
            I think it ruins the simplicity of the "Map Options" window when every and all players are displayed like this:

            0_1496328405969_Picture.png

            I think this option displayed in the Maps Options window needs to be changed somehow. On maps like TWW and Iron War the many players makes this option display massive amounts of text. It really floods the screen, ruins the simplicity and the overview.

            Would it not be possible to handle this feature with some sort of drop-down list. Like if there in the Map Option windows were only one case of “Player Bonus Income Precentage” displayed followed by drop down menus “Player” and “Percentage“. Or alternatively, just “Player Bonus Income Precentage” followed by one drop down menu “Player” and then a box that changed the percentage number displayer if another player in the dropdown menu is chosen? Something like the Human/Hard AI/Fast AI etc. drop down menu when stating games.

            PS: Also, it would be cool to have any alliances be represented in the player dropdown list, like if the top of the player list included a ”All Axis” and ”All Allies”.

            Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • redrumR Offline
              redrum Admin
              last edited by

              So my end goal for AI bonus settings is something similar to HOI4 as I think its one of the better systems I've seen: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-development-diary-12th-of-august-2016-read-op-edit.962543/

              There will be a 'default' for all maps that is used if a map doesn't specify anything in the XML. But the parameters will also be available to map makers so they can create the number of different levels with different bonuses. I'd like to have at least 'income %', 'income flat', and 'production %' available. Also they will be able to set whether the bonus slider is available or not for each nation (so might not want bonus sliders for neutral players or minor players).

              I'm also planning to move the AI bonuses out of the settings window and into the player selection window as it makes more sense there.

              I'm thinking the default will be something like the following but still up for discussion:
              Level 1 - +20% income, +10% unit production limit
              Level 2 - +40% income, +20% unit production limit
              Level 3 - +60% income, +30% unit production limit
              Level 4 - +80% income, +40% unit production limit
              Level 5 - +100% income, +50% unit production limit

              @Cernel - I glanced through some of your posts but that's just too much to read honestly. The one thing I'll confirm is that I plan to completely remove the existing parameters and do understand there are a few maps that used these existing AI bonus parameters (such as AI challenges). Most of the older maps that used them are no longer balanced with the new AI and the other couple of maps are recent and still maintained so can be updated to the new system.

              TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

              C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • C Offline
                Cernel Moderators @redrum
                last edited by Cernel

                @redrum said in AI Bonus Settings Revamp:

                @Cernel - I glanced through some of your posts but that's just too much to read honestly.

                Ok. I believe this is the most important section:

                .Starting Resources Multiplication

                First of all, an important matter and a whole point I just missed (damn), when putting forward my suggestions, which may well be considered a regression we all overlooked!
                In the moment in which I suggested and we agreed to move the bonus from multiplying the PUs stock before purchase to multiplying the PUs flux (the main reason here being not multiplying saved income), we are not anymore multiplying starting income! This is a functionality lost in the old one, where the income everyone had at start game would have been multiplied accordingly, right before the first purchase for that player.
                I think this is quite an important matter, especially with reference to the traditional games, where the starting PUs are equal to the starting productions, thus it is nonsensical that players would get more units to buy on round 2 onwards, for the same total production, while not having any bonus on their purchases on round 1. This would have a continuity-breaking feeling as, in the normal games, the PUs the players start with is supposed to be the PUs they would have collected in the round before round 1 (most games don't start at the start of the referring war, but sometimes in the course of it, usually 1942).
                So, I think you should add this point as one of the ones at the starting post of the Topic (a point I would have surely added myself, amongst the ones you pasted, had I not just overlooked it totally!):

                - Having it multiplying all starting resources, assigned to the respective players (in resource initialize) (particularly important when we multiply placement abilities too).

                This is particularly important relatively to the other point about the multiplication of placement capabilities, otherwise, in standard games, the placement multiplication would be not justifiable for the first turn of the benefitted players. Probably not much of a big deal, practically, but it would be a nonsensical element, in the system, making it unrefined.
                Moreover, if all starting PUs are multiplied, I think this would be generally more sound for the general impact of the AI bonuses, and lowering the perceived need of assigning both the percent bonus and a bid, too, as the starting PUs multiplication would partially cover the popular balancing-through-bid concept, making the AI bonus alone more self-sufficient, at least as a matter of the feel of it.
                Of course, this should apply to other resources, than PUs, just as much as the regular multiplication would.
                I think this is practically a regression from the old system, that has to be corrected by assuring the multiplication of all PUs (and any resources) assigned at start game (in the resource initialize).
                I actually now think that the main, or maybe only reason, why the old AI bonuses worked that strange way of multiplying what you have before purchase (instead of what you collect) was exactly to assure multiplying the starting income too! I'm not even sure if moving the multiplication from stock to flux (which I suggested) can be considered a net improvement, if we lose this dynamic.
                A warning, just in case, is to avoid multiplying the PUs earned when not using some of the assigned bid (the bid getting saved should not be multiplied; only the resources in resources initialize).

                redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • redrumR Offline
                  redrum Admin @Cernel
                  last edited by

                  @Cernel So that is correct that it currently isn't multiplying starting PUs just PUs produced during turns. I'm aware of this and not sure how I feel about it. My initial thought is that the new system is simpler as it just focuses on giving bonuses to actual income and initial balancing would be handled through bids. But I can see your point as well.

                  I think I'll add a comment to the first post around starting resources and see what other players think.

                  TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                  HeppsH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • HeppsH Offline
                    Hepps Moderators @redrum
                    last edited by

                    @redrum Starting could be handled easy enough by the map maker by the map maker or the player with an Edit.

                    Either a mod(s) could be made which adjusts the starting income based on the scenario... it could simply be referenced in the game notes.

                    "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
                    Hepster

                    redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • redrumR Offline
                      redrum Admin @Hepps
                      last edited by

                      @Hepps True though my goal for TripleA as a whole is that Edit mode should be a last resort for regular games (mostly should just be used if a mistake was made or something isn't working properly).

                      I mostly just want the available AI bonus parameters to be straightforward and feel intuitive. So if you were to say I want my AI opponents to get '+25% income' would I expect the initial resources to be increased by that as well?

                      TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                      C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • C Offline
                        Cernel Moderators @redrum
                        last edited by

                        @redrum said in AI Bonus Settings Revamp:

                        I'm thinking the default will be something like the following but still up for discussion:
                        Level 1 - +20% income, +10% unit production limit
                        Level 2 - +40% income, +20% unit production limit
                        Level 3 - +60% income, +30% unit production limit
                        Level 4 - +80% income, +40% unit production limit
                        Level 5 - +100% income, +50% unit production limit

                        Uhm, I'm thinking it would be better to allow for defining the percentage, I mean having an almost continuous slider, giving the ability of setting +25%, if wanted, without having to jump from +20% to +40%. That would allow fine-tuning a challenge, trying to inch till the uppermost level you can manage to win vs the AI. If having steps, I suggest them being 5% each (5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%...).

                        Also, I don't see why having the placement increasing half than the income? As I suggested, I proposed a switch for having / not having a same placement bonus as the income bonus, but maybe, instead of a boolean, you can have a percent of how much the unit production should increase with the income (so, in your case, you would set it at 50, but you can set it at 0 or 100).
                        If the matter is not risking, due to the placement abilities being sometimes limited and forcefully integer, the placement factually increasing more than the income, in some territories, I'd go for just having both increasing by the same percentage, but the income approximating normally, while the unit placement always rounding down. Thus, if you have 25% bonus income, you would have the following placement changes:
                        1->1
                        2->2
                        3->3
                        4->5
                        5->6
                        6->7
                        7->8
                        8->10
                        9->11
                        10->12
                        I would still suggest just approximating both the same ways, but I think this alternative solution would be better than having the placement increasing half than the income, which I can't really see a reason for. As you can see, the above system is already pretty modest; a 25% is pretty strong bonus, if the AI plays well, and, in common maps, would just give a +1 placement from 4 to 7 and a +2 placement for 8 or more.

                        Tho I'm not sure I really understand, the rest of the system / concept sounds cool, but I'm personally against having a default different from no cheat. I think a game should not have AI bonuses default, unless it is clearly presented as an AI challenge. Noobs (and not only noobs!) might overlook, and you would have to wonder, in some cases, if they were using a bonus or not, if they don't have to actively choose one.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • C Offline
                          Cernel Moderators @redrum
                          last edited by

                          @redrum said in AI Bonus Settings Revamp:

                          So if you were to say I want my AI opponents to get '+25% income' would I expect the initial resources to be increased by that as well?

                          Of course waiting for others, as you already know my answer, but, just to formalise: yes, especially in the basic games in which the starting PUs are the same as the starting productions and especially (but not only) if on round 1 I get a bonus to my placement abilities.

                          C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • C Offline
                            Cernel Moderators @Cernel
                            last edited by

                            A related note, since we are also talking about that in
                            https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/128/resource-system-assessment-and-improvements
                            is that we might have collection at start turn (but I don't even know if it currently exists a map that does it, actually). In that case, not multiplying starting resources would not be a big deal (the starting resources would be what the players are supposed to have saved the theorical round before the start of the game only), but I think it would be still fine to do it, or at least I would not make exceptions.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • FrostionF Offline
                              Frostion Admin
                              last edited by

                              @redrum
                              Yes, please keep the AI bonus system simple and correspond as much with what players would intuitively expect when the AI is getting bonus. That is also why the current multiplilying of the bank PUs is kind of wired.

                              Please don’t forget my concerns about ALL resources types being multiplied by a factor and how it might not fit the map and the purpose of the special other resources. An XML option to turn on / off multiplication would be very welcome. 😀

                              A % slider would be cool. And If a player was to get +20% bonus through the entire game, why would it be a problem that this also meant to any starting PUs? I would think that if a player was to be boosted during the entire game, then it might as well include the stating money.

                              Also, I like the idea about a general level setting that could raise a player’s chances, but I do have concerns about a placement bonus thing. If placement amount is a part of the map rules, like in Iron War where players might expect factories to only produce 5 units, or Age of Tribes and Dragon War where different factories also have fixed production stats, I would not like players to get confused by seeing some of these factories produce more than they should. I would prefer advantages / handicaps be “hidden” when playing, in the sense that players could just feel a bit more pressure from the player getting bonuses, not that the player getting bonus could also do stuff that normal players could not do.

                              Map maker of: Star Wars: Galactic War + Star Wars: Tatooine War + Caribbean Trade War + Dragon War + Age of Tribes + Star Trek: Dilithium War + Iron War + Iron War: Europe + Warcraft: War Heroes

                              C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • C Offline
                                Cernel Moderators
                                last edited by

                                Ideally, the best would be a "production bonus" (like you place 6 armours at the cost for normally placing only 5, and taking only 5 placement abilities), but, since you cannot really have that working well on an integer base, then my suggestion was to indirectly obtain it by boosting the income collection and starting resources; this is also why the suggestion of scaling back income when you capture it from the AI.
                                Probably the best would be if the AI gets the income bonus right when spending it, but only for the income actually spent (thus, like the old system, but excluding to multiply saved income). I don't know if this would be feasible, but I'd rather suggest going that way, if it is (for example, when the AI has 24 PUs and a bonus of 25%, it will be able to spend 30 PUs using 24 PUs or spend 27-28 PUs using 22 PUs and saving 2 PUs). This would remove the need of multiplying any starting resources, as well as not worrying about capturing income, and would work the best in case you switch a player between human and AI, during the game, as the income would be just multiplied right before spending it and only if you spend it, not in the bank.

                                @Frostion Not sure, but I tend to agree. Likely better to apply the placement bonus only to factories following the rule of placing depending on what the territory allows (usually placement equal to territory production), not to those factories that have a fixed production per turn, regardless of the territory they are in. For example, in 270bc, the city should get the placement bonus, but not the legionaire (building 1 fort per turn regardless). This means that factories like Age of Tribes, in which you have the caves producing 1 in any, the forts producing 2 in any etc., would probably better not get any placement bonuses, as it would really make sense only if you are using them at 100% (doubling all). However, I believe this can be argued both ways; it is just a problem relative to having to round it to integer levels, while factories may be just production 1, 2 or so, so it would take some thinking at what level they get the +1, eventually (plus people may wonder if a 2.5 would be rounded up or down).

                                Yeah, I saw that this topic would have been not that easy to sort out.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • C Offline
                                  Cernel Moderators @Frostion
                                  last edited by

                                  @Frostion said in AI Bonus Settings Revamp:

                                  Also, I like the idea about a general level setting that could raise a player’s chances, but I do have concerns about a placement bonus thing. If placement amount is a part of the map rules, like in Iron War where players might expect factories to only produce 5 units, or Age of Tribes and Dragon War where different factories also have fixed production stats, I would not like players to get confused by seeing some of these factories produce more than they should. I would prefer advantages / handicaps be “hidden” when playing, in the sense that players could just feel a bit more pressure from the player getting bonuses, not that the player getting bonus could also do stuff that normal players could not do.

                                  In a map where all factories always produce 5 units I guess this can be left just totally to the players if they want a +20% bonus to raise factory production to 6 or not.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • redrumR Offline
                                    redrum Admin
                                    last edited by

                                    So I've decided to get rid of the idea of increasing unit production for now. I think it ends up complicating things a lot as many maps have different unit production systems.

                                    @Frostion Yeah, the plan is to move the AI bonuses to the player selection window instead of settings window. So they would be alongside the dropdowns where you select AI vs player for each nation. I do also plan for the bonus to apply to all resources by default but have the ability for mapmakers to disable bonuses for certain resources where it doesn't make sense.

                                    TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                                    C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • C Offline
                                      Cernel Moderators @redrum
                                      last edited by

                                      @redrum
                                      Another idea, going a very different way, may be having a % chance of unit duplication upon placement.

                                      Meaning that if you set it at 25%, each time the AI places 1 unit there is a 25% of another unit being added up for free (not taking placement spots, either).

                                      Otherwise, I agree that adding (or not) placement expansion should be left for for a second time, after the system is otherwise in its final form. And, it should definitely be an optional choice if to have any bonus placement or not.

                                      C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • C Offline
                                        Cernel Moderators @Cernel
                                        last edited by

                                        @Cernel said in AI Bonus Settings Revamp:

                                        @redrum
                                        Another idea, going a very different way, may be having a % chance of unit duplication upon placement.

                                        Meaning that if you set it at 25%, each time the AI places 1 unit there is a 25% of another unit being added up for free (not taking placement spots, either).

                                        Nevermind about this weird idea. There is the problem that additional fighters may not have a carrier to land on, tho they could be redirected to the land territory, if they don't. But probably this is just too random a bonus; duno. Tho it could like apply to the starting setup too, besides the new placement. Probably just too strange / random a bonus tho, on a second thought (maybe noone would like such a thing).

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • redrumR Offline
                                          redrum Admin
                                          last edited by

                                          Next set of changes are submitted: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/1791

                                          Highlights:

                                          • Bonus income now works for all resources
                                          • Starting resources are increased by bonus as well
                                          • Updated wording of bonus in history and end turn report
                                          • Adjust bonus income range to only be positive (0-999)

                                          TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback

                                          HeppsH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • HeppsH Offline
                                            Hepps Moderators @redrum
                                            last edited by

                                            @redrum Well done sir. That was a very quick turn around. Very impressed.

                                            "A joyous heart sours with the burden of expectation"
                                            Hepster

                                            redrumR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0

                                            Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.

                                            Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.

                                            With your input, this post could be even better 💗

                                            Register Login
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 3
                                            • 4
                                            • 5
                                            • 2 / 5
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Copyright © 2016-2018 TripleA-Devs | Powered by NodeBB Forums