Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread
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@jtmayes1963 I am not looking at the map right now but I think the Serbian cruiser represents the Greek navy since as I remember it Greece is lumped in with the Serbians.
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@jtmayes1963 By class I meant BBs, BCs, C, DDs, and subs.
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@jtmayes1963 said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@majesticfeet Since the game doesn't make distinction between class, I don't worry about that. I simply go by battleship, battle cruiser, cruiser, destroyer.... as the game does. As far as land percentage, I'll leave that research to you, What caught my attention when I first started playing this game is Serbia has a cruiser on the board while the US nothing navel. America had the famous White Fleet in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.
This map is sometimes a bit . . . figurative in how it interprets history.
When WWI began, the U.S. started off as neutral. It gradually became more pro-Entente, and provided Entente nations with weapons. Eventually it entered the war. Based on that track record, America's contribution to the Entente war effort could be viewed as close to zero at the start of the war, but increasing over the war's duration.
The U.S. starts off with no navy, no air force, and only a small army. The small army is not in a position to venture outside Entente borders, unless it wants to invade Mexico. Also, the U.S. starts off with only a small amount of cash. Its initial contribution to the Entente war effort is pretty much zero, just like the real war.
A number of U.S. players, including myself, do a lot of neutral farming. That decreases the U.S.'s short-term contribution to the Entente war effort, because the U.S. is pouring a large share of its resources into farming neutrals instead of fighting against the Centrals. But it increases the U.S.'s long-term contributions, because it will have higher income. That also is a reasonably good proxy for what actually happened: namely escalating levels of American involvement.
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CP would lose all its navy very quickly which didn't happen in WW1 despite being outnumbered due to several reasons. I would suggest finding some ways to prevent CP losing all its navy within rounds.
Making some naval units default more defensive, giving Germany a bit bigger navy (their navy was overall newer than the British), introducing sea mines etc... might be solution.
Also there is a lack of the Battle of Atlantic maybe someone would want to address it in their mods.
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@schulz I have distributed the US fleet to where it takes at least 7 turns to land an effective ground force in Europe. Also, CP naval units are still on the board, including Germany, after Berlin is taken. I don't think there will be a Battle of the Atlantic because we are looking at it from a hind sight perspective.
I also placed neutral destroyers near Japan.
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I've just made an alternative skin with new national colours and flags if anybody is interested.
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I love this map given all the strategy options. Curious if there are ways to make the Hard AI more challenging in this game?
I have played a few times as CP and have no problem capturing UK turn 4 or Paris turn 6 with Germany. I’m sure a human would easily counter. These aren’t full on Zerg rushes. I’m still sending units to the other lines to keep a defensive posture.
AI doesn’t seem to understand it needs to protect its capitols and that factory placement limitations are important to manage. Also the United States AI will spam 30+ fighters instead of building transports and sending soldiers to Europe.
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@strategery The only currenty way to make AI more challenging is giving bonus income to AI as percentage. Also CP AI seems better than Allies AI.
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@schulz How is the Domination 1914 AI different than for example Steampunk Advance AI (the closest thing to it) since Allied AI doesn't do that
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@board-3659 I don't know Steampunk, but almost in all maps, AI performs better with factions that have less naval stuffs.
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@schulz I mean entente AI beats central powers AI despite having a lot more naval units. Nemo Pirates AI sucks. Martains is decent but usually still loses
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@schulz said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@strategery The only currenty way to make AI more challenging is giving bonus income to AI as percentage. Also CP AI seems better than Allies AI.
You could do an edit each turn, replacing an excessive number of American fighters with an equivalent value of transports and infantry. You could also give the Allies some extra static units in their capitals.
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@board-3659 Maybe it is because the entente is too strong to offset AI's relative weakness of the seas?
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@schulz Could be though the US player is pretty competent at balancing ground units and naval units. The Alliance player is the same. Nemo pirates for some reason just build planes
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Fixed Italy buying armour without researching Tank tech: https://github.com/triplea-maps/domination_1914_no_mans_land/pull/11/files
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Hey!
I love this map though I havent played it a lot. Do have some questions about what everyone thinks in regards to Bids here.Personally I love to play with no rules in regards to "capturing neutral territories" and no rules in regards to gas.I cant remember what side gas benefits the most but if I remember correctly neutrals in especially Asia but also Spain benefit the Allies a lot.So what would be your recommended bid in regards to a LL game with no other rules?I know 1 sub is common, what about 1-2 techs? Maybe even for Germany and Austria each?Im also curious how you´d rate dice vs LL. In Global, which Im far more familiar with, the bid difference is about 6-10 PU. That is, the allies get LESS bid when there is Low Luck than when there is dice.Same would apply here I assume, especially due to the curcial german sub play.How would you compensate? I know once when me and Kurt played he gave me +3 PU per turn for the rest of the game as Germany, but he may have just been nice since I was new to the game then. Though it is not that much, in essence its one average neutral territory extra.edit: Epinokon told me that there had been big changes to the map in the past year or so that means at least the LL bids and other house rules no longer are used.
Does anyone know what version / since what version those changes came so I can browse them through a bit?
Also still curious about what if any bid youd put for dice, or in other words how dice affects the balance?
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@ondis Its pretty balanced in my experience after the changes made (you can see the change log in the first post of this thread). Those mostly addressed a lot of the past issues around neutral territories, gas, etc. Centrals probably are a bit stronger in LL and a bit weaker in dice as naturally whoever is on the offensive benefits a bit from LL as things are more predictable.
Kurt is an experienced player and probably just giving you some help.
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@ondis said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
Hey!
I love this map though I havent played it a lot. Do have some questions about what everyone thinks in regards to Bids here.Personally I love to play with no rules in regards to "capturing neutral territories" and no rules in regards to gas.I cant remember what side gas benefits the most but if I remember correctly neutrals in especially Asia but also Spain benefit the Allies a lot.So what would be your recommended bid in regards to a LL game with no other rules?I know 1 sub is common, what about 1-2 techs? Maybe even for Germany and Austria each?Im also curious how you´d rate dice vs LL. In Global, which Im far more familiar with, the bid difference is about 6-10 PU. That is, the allies get LESS bid when there is Low Luck than when there is dice.Same would apply here I assume, especially due to the curcial german sub play.How would you compensate? I know once when me and Kurt played he gave me +3 PU per turn for the rest of the game as Germany, but he may have just been nice since I was new to the game then. Though it is not that much, in essence its one average neutral territory extra.edit: Epinokon told me that there had been big changes to the map in the past year or so that means at least the LL bids and other house rules no longer are used.
Does anyone know what version / since what version those changes came so I can browse them through a bit?
Also still curious about what if any bid youd put for dice, or in other words how dice affects the balance?
Balance changes to the map mean that bids are no longer used.
There are still two house rules which are in somewhat wide effect. One is a gass limit of 12 per nation. The other is a zeppelin limit of 2 per nation.
A gass limit serves to help prevent 3 things.
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Germany and Austria picking an Entente capital, such as Paris, to try to zerg rush. One of the two uses normal units for its aggression, while the other sends a huge stack of gass.
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Germany or Austria building a huge stack of gass, and moving it back and forth between various fronts to threaten Entente in more than one place.
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Later in the game, no gass limit means the U.S. could put nearly all its money into gass. American gass would be in conjunction with a French or British offensive.
The zeppelin limit exists to prevent the U.S. from buying large amounts of zeppelins, and sending them against the communists. Without a zeppelin limit, Russia could send units to try to take the communist capital, while the U.S. sent large numbers of zeppelins.
There are no longer widespread house rules restricting neutral farming. The modifications to the map included income reductions for some neutral territories, or increases in the number of units defending them, or both.
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@redrum said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@ondis Its pretty balanced in my experience after the changes made (you can see the change log in the first post of this thread). Those mostly addressed a lot of the past issues around neutral territories, gas, etc. Centrals probably are a bit stronger in LL and a bit weaker in dice as naturally whoever is on the offensive benefits a bit from LL as things are more predictable.
Kurt is an experienced player and probably just giving you some help.
Yo. Thanks. But if the central powers are weaker by dice then naturally there should be some kind of bid to them, no? But very few seem to play dice so I guess its not really been tested either. Regardless of niceties
Also that was in the old version so it somewhat compensated the neutral farming I guess.
About Gas, there was a big discussion on the chat earlier last evening about it, whether or not to have a limit. It seemed evenly split.
I think the problem obviously occurs when there are so large stacks that any manoeuvre warfare is made impossible.
I think the limit of 12 is perhaps too small if there should be a limit. And probably since dice allows for more flanking (as you can´t attack flanking stacks down to 1-2 units and always expect not to move to that territory) stacks don´t become that big of an issue.
But in LL I could see a reason for a limit like @KurtGodel7 says.
About Zeppelins I don´t know. It seems like a more legitimate strategy. I guess its partly countered by moving to Mexico with Germany. But I can see how it can look a bit exploitable to do it to a one province powerhouse like the Communists.
There are several workarounds that may be better than having limitations imposed on the player by house rules. One would be to give the communists off-map income for a portion of that province value - reducing the province by as much.
Russia could be compensated with a national objective to take the province capital and then gain the same amount of PU.
An other to limit how many zeppelins can be used on one province.
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@ondis said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@redrum said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@ondis Its pretty balanced in my experience after the changes made (you can see the change log in the first post of this thread). Those mostly addressed a lot of the past issues around neutral territories, gas, etc. Centrals probably are a bit stronger in LL and a bit weaker in dice as naturally whoever is on the offensive benefits a bit from LL as things are more predictable.
Kurt is an experienced player and probably just giving you some help.
Yo. Thanks. But if the central powers are weaker by dice then naturally there should be some kind of bid to them, no? But very few seem to play dice so I guess its not really been tested either. Regardless of niceties
Also that was in the old version so it somewhat compensated the neutral farming I guess.
About Gas, there was a big discussion on the chat earlier last evening about it, whether or not to have a limit. It seemed evenly split.
I think the problem obviously occurs when there are so large stacks that any manoeuvre warfare is made impossible.
I think the limit of 12 is perhaps too small if there should be a limit. And probably since dice allows for more flanking (as you can´t attack flanking stacks down to 1-2 units and always expect not to move to that territory) stacks don´t become that big of an issue.
But in LL I could see a reason for a limit like @KurtGodel7 says.
About Zeppelins I don´t know. It seems like a more legitimate strategy. I guess its partly countered by moving to Mexico with Germany. But I can see how it can look a bit exploitable to do it to a one province powerhouse like the Communists.
There are several workarounds that may be better than having limitations imposed on the player by house rules. One would be to give the communists off-map income for a portion of that province value - reducing the province by as much.
Russia could be compensated with a national objective to take the province capital and then gain the same amount of PU.
An other to limit how many zeppelins can be used on one province.
Good post.
It's possible for the U.S. and Britain to prevent Germany from taking Mexico City.
Round 1:
- Germany moves its Pacific transport + 2 land units as far east as possible.
- Britain moves two colonials to Montana.
- The U.S. buys 2 trenches and 3 - 4 gass. Of the units in the western U.S., it keeps 1 infantry in San Francisco. At the end of the U.S. turn, there will be 3 infantry and a cavalry in New Mexico. 2 trenches are placed in San Francisco (prevents Germany from conquering it/building a factory). The gass is placed in Charleston.
Round 2:
- Germany uses its Pacific transport to take Guadalahara.
- The UK moves 2 colonials from Montana to New Mexico.
- The U.S. attacks Chihuahua with 3 infantry and a cavalry from New Mexico. If the U.S. gets decent dice, it conquers Chihuahua. If it gets bad dice it needs to retreat before it loses its cavalry. It moves the Charleston gass west to Louisiana.
Round 3:
- Germany moves 2 units from Guadalahara to Mexico City.
- If the U.S. took Chihuahua, Britain doesn't need to do anything. If the U.S. failed to take it, Britain attacks Chihuahua with the 2 colonials in New Mexico.
- The U.S. uses its cavalry + gass to kill the Germans in Mexico City.
