Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread
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@wirkey: well thx for the picture, but you really ignoring the problem
epi
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Germany is roughly %17-%25 stronger than Germany in GW map but relatively very weak compared to its main foes. And taking into account the facts that how big the German navy in GW and easier to protect German coasts.
In GW its not unusual to see France+UK total income is only slighly higher than Germany (%8-%10) while in NML UK can still outproduces Germany alone. That's big issue.
France is also %50 stronger than GW France. The issue is like other major Entente nations you have enogh income to fully place all starting factories. I mean just being able to putting 20 French unit per rounds mean you have no troble to find out your priorities. As Russia you can perfectly keep Commies and Eastern front with conscript spawn. UK also has plenty of income to keep and go everywhere.
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@epinikion I created a separate thread to discuss any dice issues.
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I have a few ideas on how to address the balance issues Schultz is pointing out:
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Add a German factory to Silesia. Add +1 to the value of Silesia. This territory is only 2 steps away from Belarus. A factory here would increase the strength of Germany's early game anti-Russia push. Because the territory does not border the ocean or the Baltic, you don't have to worry about it being used to build transports to zerg rush someone's capital.
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Replace merchant marine with a tech called sub. This tech allows you to build subs. Germany (and perhaps Austria) start with sub tech, all other nations must research it.
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German neutral farming in South America. This is a renewal of an idea I'd mentioned earlier. With proper starting unit setup, you could ensure that Germany gets a good foothold in South America before the Entente has a chance to do anything. You could even reduce the value of Panama down to 1 PU if necessary to nerf a potential American factory in the area.
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Propaganda as a starting tech for communists. Historically, if the communists were good at one thing, it was propaganda. Starting them out with this tech is very realistic and conducive to game balance.
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What about this set up:
Baluchistan and Formosa become 2. Removing -4 Income from UK, -6 from USA.
-1 tranny from sz 20-21, Removing one units in each of these territories: Algeria; Franche-Comte, Naples, Apulia, Calcutta, Western Australia, Vologda, Naryan-Mar, Petersburg, Scotland, Greece.
Also I liked Silesia factory too.
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@epinikion there is a huge difference between ignoring a problem and not seeing one. To ignore something to first have to notice that something is there. But i don't want to go into that any further.
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@wirkey my issue is that i saw one special unit in a lot of games hitting way over average. That might sound silly, but when you answer with the stats for the rolls per nations i dont get how that refers to my issue. I am just saying there is one unit (not one nation) that hits in tons of games over average.
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Also it would be nice to set up all options ll as default in next update.
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@redrum said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@wirkey While I agree that the mass neutral farming feels a bit strange, its essentially a core part of this map and creating lots of small countries would really turn this into a complete different map. That being said, your exact idea is what @Hepps and I are working on for the new WW1 map: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/1063/power-of-politics-1914-a-wwi-scenario
I know it would make a complete or almost complete new game and I know that most likely nobody will make all the work. It's probably the only way to get me to play this map (again). I just don't get over the fact, that those neutrals are not defending themselves. It's the same for NWO and WAW (really bad in South America, too). I've played with house rules and I like that way better.
About your and @Hepps game:
will you have real neutral nations that join others (becoming something like the minors in TWW) or are those just neutral territories, that become "true" german/french etc when attacked? -
@wirkey Totally inactive but hostile neutrals is a TripleA only feature, inexistent the basic games, that has found a lot of favour amongst mapmakers, and that figures extensively in almost all the most popular custom games.
Regarding its silliness, you would say it about whatever historical modern maps having any of those, comprising Total World War (for example, Mongolia, that should actually rather be a minor of Russia since start game or even just part of Russia) (on the other hand, for example, you would probably agree it is acceptable in 270BC, instead).
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@Cernel said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
@wirkey Totally inactive but hostile neutrals is a TripleA only feature, inexistent the basic games, that has found a lot of favour amongst mapmakers, and that figures extensively in almost all the most popular custom games.
Regarding its silliness, you would say it about whatever historical modern maps having any of those, comprising Total World War (for example, Mongolia, that should actually rather be a minor of Russia since start game or even just part of Russia) (on the other hand, for example, you would probably agree it is acceptable in 270BC, instead).
Sure I know it's been an feature for many maps and sure I know it makes a lot of sense in most games. I just don't like it that much...
About Mongolia, I tried to make them a minor in TWW, but I just suck with xml. All I could do was to get Tac Bombers being able to land on carriers. My preferred option for Mongolia would be the same as I suggested for NML: if Axis (most likely Japan) attacks them, all other territories with all other units turn Russian. You have to think twice about that teleporting deep into China (I do that move, too. But I always feel a bit ashamed)No clue about 270BC. Never played that map (no airplanes...). But just by the name I'd say there were a lot of tribes around, so it seems fine for me
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@wirkey Kind of in between the 2. Each major WW1 power has colonial minors (just like minors in TWW) and the various neutrals will join a designated major or one of its minors through politics or war: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/1063/power-of-politics-1914-a-wwi-scenario/6
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I've set 60 battles (2 art+1 inf vs 1 conscript) as testing and only 6 times conscript hit while statistically it was supposed to be even slighly closer to 10.
I don't think there is a mechanical issue.
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ok, thx schulz. we let it be.
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@wirkey said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:
I know it would make a complete or almost complete new game and I know that most likely nobody will make all the work. It's probably the only way to get me to play this map (again). I just don't get over the fact, that those neutrals are not defending themselves.
I've been working on a rules set for a WWII map, and have combined that work with historical study of the war itself. During WWII, military aircraft production was a fairly decent proxy for overall military production. Between 1942 and 1944, the United State doubled its production of military aircraft. The Soviet Union almost doubled its production. Germany nearly tripled its military aircraft production, and Japan more than tripled its production.
Dramatic increases in military production also occurred during WWI. During the first five months of the war Britain produced an average of 100,000 shells per month. In 1916 it produced an average of 1.37 million shells per month. Increases in French shell production were even more dramatic. Germany produced four times as many shells in 1916 as it had in 1915.
Granted, these increases were not achieved by neutral farming China, Central or South America, the Caribbean, or the South Pacific. As far as I know, the TripleA engine does not (yet?) support a mechanism to allow nations to increase their production over time, as happened in both world wars. In the absence of such a mechanism, neutral farming allows nations to achieve a steady increase in their income over time.
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@KurtGodel7 You could easily simulate increased production over time in TripleA in a variety of ways.
You could have triggers that actually just increase territory production values by a certain amount in certain rounds or even just give a certain flat amount to each nation. You could create a building system like in Civil War to simulate building up of industry/factories. You could decrease unit costs or have new units be more cost efficient.
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v1.4 is now released
- Reorder tech display to match new categories
- Allow Germany easier capture of Mexico City (replace inf with field gun on Caroline Islands)
- Update AA gun cost from 6 to 5
- Change Working Women gas reduction from 1 to 0.5
- Remove several Russian units (Bessarabia, Nizhni-Novgorod, Pskov, Volgograd)
- Remove several Italian units (Rome, Naples)
- Remove several UK and Greek units (Scotland, Calcutta, Western Australia, Greece)
- Increase several German territory production (Munich, Nassau, Posen, Westphalia)
- Decrease several UK territory production (Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan)
- Adjust several neutral territories
Goal was to nerf strat bombing and late game gas a bit as well as buff CPs vs Entente.
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@KurtGodel7 As you are hinting, the biggest purchases were for artillery shells (meaning overtime the shells your artillery is firing will cost you much more than what you paid for the artillery itself), and there is no ammunition consumption system in TripleA, so anyways in the moment you don't even get the main production item to start with, decreasing costs or increasing productivity are of secondary concern, I would say. A similar matter is for infantry, where maintaining them for years will cost you much more than the cost of the rifle they are wielding and what little else they got, but here at least TripleA roughly supports upkeep.
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@redrum and thats alltogether is not more than 1-2 central starting techs? i doubt its balanced now. Centrals should be ahead. Thats, why i said, don`t change too much. But we will see. However, thanks for all your work on updates.
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@epinikion I don't think so. I think the changes counter the no free techs for Germany, WW gas cost change, and no house rules on farming. Essentially the changes are +4 production for Germany, -3 production for UK, and -25 TUV starting units for Entente (in non-border territories that don't really impact the game til round 3-4). It looks like more on paper then it is when you play the game. If I hadn't pointed out the removed starting units, most players wouldn't even notice.
But the only way to tell is on the battlefield so hopefully folks play some games (preferably with no house rules) and upload the saves here.
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