Screen centering/cycling around map UI idea

[Frostion]

@Cernel The player's turn should keep starting out at the players capital (as it is now), as a way to let the player and everyone watching their screen know that this specific player has turn. I can't think of a good argument to stop this practice, no matter if a specific map has factories or unmoved units at capital or not. If there is indeed no capital, then it is ofcours another another story.

[Cernel]

@Frostion Actually, I was just pointing out that it is not always true that capital territories have factories (or the like) in them.

I tend to agree on keeping pointing at the capital, though, when you have multiple capitals, it points at the one that is listed first in the game file (xml). I guess it is about time to think and decide what should be pointed at when you have no capitals.

[RogerCooper]

I am actually finding this feature rather annoying. It takes up screen space which I would rather retain to see more actions which can then be undone. Unlike some other games, there is nothing unusual about unmoved units and no real need to cycle between them.

[Cernel]

@RogerCooper said in Screen centering/cycling around map UI idea:

I am actually finding this feature rather annoying. It takes up screen space which I would rather retain to see more actions which can then be undone. Unlike some other games, there is nothing unusual about unmoved units and no real need to cycle between them.

I think the feature is useful enough to justify its encumbrance (though I use it almost only at end turn, just like I could already do with the cycle hotkey), but, as I said, I think everyone would be happy if you could hide it, preferably being hidden as default, but with a big button to show it, that also centres on the first given territory when you open. The only thing I would surely remove is that flag button. The centre button could be substituted by clicking on the units image, instead.

[Frostion]

I agree that the feature takes up too much space. And I would guess that most players would find it a bit too much. However I also imagine the territory scroller be made more compact. A lot of players might get a better impression.

The current version might not be such a good ambassador and might not sell the concept that well.

Maybe it can be made into something like this (OLD / NEW design):

This is the icons used for buttons in the picture: v6-icons-37x37.zip

EDIT: I also think it might be a good idea to combine a more compact territory scroller with an option to minimize it, more or less permanently. So players that use the scroller has it shown every time combat move starts, but players that chose to minimize it have it minimized until they open it up again. (?)

[Cernel]

@Frostion said in Screen centering/cycling around map UI idea:

I agree that the feature takes up too much space. And I would guess that most players would find it a bit too much. However I also imagine the territory scroller be made more compact. A lot of players might get a better impression.

The current version might not be such a good ambassador and might not sell the concept that well.

Maybe it can be made into something like this (OLD / NEW design):

This is the icons used for buttons in the picture: v6-icons-37x37.zip

EDIT: I also think it might be a good idea to combine a more compact territory scroller with an option to minimize it, more or less permanently. So players that use the scroller has it shown every time combat move starts, but players that chose to minimize it have it minimized until they open it up again. (?)

Having space between the buttons is good, so I would put the unit images in between of the first 3 buttons and the last 3 ones.

I think you should still say how many units you have left to move in the specific territory.

I don't understand what the Finns are doing there, since TripleA doesn't currently allow units of other players being moved (beside cargo).

This new disposition is compact enough that I believe you should, then, certainly reduce the minimum minimap wideness implied to 200 pixels (allowing for a narrower spacebar that current, if the smallMap is narrow enough).

Where is the centre button, or how is that done (I think it can be done by clicking on the units image).

[Hepps]

@Frostion The idea of trying to condense down the area seems like a good direction to go with this.

One of the things I have noticed is the buttons for this feature are excessively large.
2nd thing is to have them more condensed rather than all around the units displayed.

Here is a quick example...

[Frostion]

@Hepps I can see the Idea and logic behind your suggestion, however I think that the button size you present is too small for comfort as well as quick and easy usage of the scroller. At least I just by looking at it think the buttons would be too small to easy and constantly click. But maybe this needs to be tested.
Another thing is, that if your mock up button layout was to become reality, then I would most difinatly prefer the arrow buttons be the far right and the far left buttons.

[Hepps]

@Frostion Was just a quick mock-up. I didn't scale anything or do any ordering of buttons as a polished design.

[LaFayette]

We've some new options for getting rid of icons:

• flags: now the menu is a simple radio button selection. We can bind the three actions from the menu: {no flags: ctrl+1, small flags: ctrl+2, large flags: ctrl+3}. With that, we can remove the "L" key listener. Given the hotkey will be indicated from within the menu options, we no longer need a button to tell players about the hotkey functionality.

(recall that previously in 1.9 the flag option in menu was a compound menu: one menu for one/off, and a second menu item for large or small flags. In 2.0 so far, this is updated to be a single menu with three radio buttons for off, small and large flags)

• unit highlight: if we move this to a menu, we can remove the button similarly:
  1. Make the unit highlight a toggle, on until you turn it off.
  2. As soon as the unit highlight is a menu option, we can show the hotkey from the menu listing

Recall the purpose of these two buttons is to give discoverability to the hotkeys. If the hotkeys are listed in the menu, we no longer need these two buttons.

---

Side-note, coming back to this for some time, the new 'skip unit' icon was not very clear to me when I first looked at it. I think the old 'check mark' perhaps is a stronger icon.

[LaFayette]

Also for consideration, place-units is always visible and has a button to hide the panel. I think it could make sense for the unit-scroller to be similar: always visible during move phases (regardless of which action tab is selected), and have a similar button to the placements panel to hide/show the panel.

[Frostion]

I would really like to see this territory scroller be developed and optimized. It would be a shame if it was removed from pre-release/development because of a lack of development and/or because it is (for some players) more of an irritating feature at the moment than a UI and gameplay improvement. I think this feature is potentiality one of the bigger and most important improvements to TripleA that we have seen in a long time. It especially makes large maps with many units and territories more fun and playable.
I think we have seem some need for at least some basic changes. As the pictures show, there is a huge potential in reducing the used space of the scroller. At its current state, many find it annoyingly huge. I would say:

1. Stick to 6 buttons in to rows.
2. Keep buttons relatively small
3. Only have "unplaced units" show during placement (this info is not really more important or sort after than politics, unit info windows etc. These are currently opened via the top bar menu. An unplaced units window could potentiality show all nation's unplaced units?)
4. Consider if the info "units left to move" is worth the space. I mean, if a game like Civilization can live without it when scrolling through units, Triple A could also. Maybe let it be pop-up info when hovering the arrows?

This should make the territory scroller much more compact.

[Cernel]

If the buttons would not be anymore left and right of the images, please reduce the minimum wideness to fit for 200 pixels wide minimaps, or, even better, as few as the space needed for the buttons, as there would be no reasons not to, then, I believe.

I still don't understand why displaying allies, as the scroller is only for the turn player, and allies can never attack (aside some edge cases).

[Frostion]

@Cernel I am not advocating showing allies, even if the mockup show an allied unit. I agree and find it logical that only own units that have movement left is to be shown.
And a minimum width that corresponds with the need of the buttons would make sense.

[LaFayette]

Any thoughts what should happen when there are many unit types? Say if there are 15 different units, should they all be rendered and appear as a crowd, or cap at something like 7 or 9?

Second, I've thought total units (in territory) is a useful indicator to help the notion that you have more units than displayed. It also helps in case a small territory is crammed with units. In such situations I've used the battle calculator to simply get unit counts before.

We could do no total at all, a single total, or put a total count next to each unit image.

Units left to move I can see as being questionable. The key I think is messaging somewhere when all units have moved so it's clear why there is no next territory and that it is safe to end turn.

[Captain Crunch]

@Frostion ya thats a screenshot from my last game where these Territory Scroller "quick buttons" are too big ... lol if you look at an old post of LaFayettes 3 months ago the Unit Scroller area is huge and shows several moves where as in my screenshot you can only see 1 move (and the Undo Move button is cut off) BECAUSE THE TERRITORY SCROLLER BUTTONS ARE WAY TOO BIG for the 2 smallest resolutions which most people probably play because thats when you can see your units easiest because they are big and you don't have to change your unit size settings if you want to use higher resolutions for the game

So if Frostions point was to make the Territory Scroller buttons smaller then ya I already said that in 1 screenshot and the rest I dunno I doubt they'll do those changes

[LaFayette]

It's a rendering bug the scroller is taking up that much area, note the excessive vertical gaps:

If you resize the right hand bar those gaps should collapse down as the area is re-rendered and takes up the right/intended amount of space. Creating a similar panel for unit scroller as the 'purchased-units' panel perhaps will help solve this by creating a fixed size area.

It's pretty convincing to have two rows of buttons and an area for the images. In theory it would not save space as there are two rows of buttons and a row for the image already. Though the aesthetic is certainly improved because we can space out the units in a very cool V-formation.

At this point I'm most curious about distinct unit image count limits and rendering of unit counts. Beyond that, there are a lot of 'must-do' items to get 2.0 finally ready (any QA work on it to test and find bugs is really solidly appreciated), that has been taking up most of my time.

[Captain Crunch]

@LaFayette V - formation what? You make about as much sense as Cernel (aka "mr. comma")

Anyways, I'm not even a coder yet I already told yous that there is a "height" and "width" setting number you can change for Icon sizes (I already said reduce the "height" size) or the whole palette the buttons are on should have a lower height because those Territory Scroller buttons are clearly way too big so that's the easy fix and any coder would tell you that ...

I'm sure a person that knows how to code will eventually show up here and repeat what I said

[Cernel]

@LaFayette said in Screen centering/cycling around map UI idea:

Any thoughts what should happen when there are many unit types? Say if there are 15 different units, should they all be rendered and appear as a crowd, or cap at something like 7 or 9?

As many as the current wideness of the bar can display. I would not overlap, but I think they can overlap up to 50%, so almost twice as many can show with the same wideness. It's really not important, as you just look at the map to see the units, when it centres, not at the scroller, anyways, I believe.

[Frostion]

@LaFayette
I would say display all units (every unit type that has movement left) as an experimental beginning. I would also say overlap if needed. Display like a big harmonica, with few units having the luxury of standing side by side, but many units are forced to be stacked like a deck of cards. Maybe later, if there is a need to show less, display the five to ten most numerous units, with the most dangerous/most valuable/units be placed to the left and having lesser units possibly overlap.

Would it be possible to have units disappear from the territory scroller display and disappear "live" as they are moved? That would be a good feature indicating how done the current selected territory is.

Also, if the last "unit left to move" is moved, could it be possible to "grey out" all the buttons, indicating that the player is all done moving.

If there is a need, the info text "units left to move" could perhaps stay right above the top of two rows of buttons, between the unit pictures and buttons. Perhaps it could stay as a relatively discrete text also function as the only "space" between units pictures and buttons. Same goes for unplaced units collapsed bar (with "None" text removed to free more space) , but I think we should really test it out before we can judge it.