Cold War 1965 - Official Thread

  • Please can someone confirm recommended AI setup for a 2 human game? Eg is it AI Hard for China and Sinopact, with AI Does Nothing for the USA-Neutrals and USSR-Neutrals?

  • And should Trucks be able to LandTransport?

  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel said in Cold War 1965 - Official Thread:

    @Lord-Bevan However, now that I think about it, you may be right that this is a bug. If an ICBM alone attacks a territory with an ICBM (and possibly other units), the defending ICBM has no actual targets to fire at (since suicide units can never target other suicide units, normally), thus it should not fire (for nothing), thus not suicide, in this case. Opinions on this? Is this a wrong behaviour?

    CC: @Panther

    I am not familiar with this game and its units., so I am not sure I understand this. So an ICBM is a nuclear weapon intended to attack an enemy territory and while doing so is removed? A defending ICBM on the other side is not intended to attack a territory but attacking units instead? Except that it can't hit the attacking ICBM so it has no valid target to fire at (in the situation in question)? And in case it had a valid target would be removed after shooting?
    Is the attacking ICMB something like strategic or tactical bombing? When and how does it fire? And the defending ICMB is always a tactical weapon intendend to fire when?

  • I note there's a duff link between SZ10 and SZ13 if anyone has time for repairs please.

  • Admin

    @mattbarnes Yeah, I would recommend setting AI-China and AI-Sinopact to Hard AI. The other neutral players probably just set to Does Nothing AI (but doesn't really matter since they don't have any phases so won't do anything no matter what).

    Trucks are just used for cheap, high movement fodder units and don't have isLandTransport currently.

  • Admin

    @Panther said in Cold War 1965 - Official Thread:

    A defending ICBM on the other side is not intended to attack a territory but attacking units instead?

    FWIW, a defending ICBM when attacked always suicides and is removed. It's in part meant to represent nuclear first strike. There can be a house rule whether AA fire can prevent this or not. It introduces a dynamic where producing an ICBM can in turn cause the opponent to use any they have in stockpile thereby trading them. If someone can get ahead by more than 1 ICBM then they have an advantage. Being able to place nuclear bombers (which have quite massive range of 10 IIRC) in position to be able to strike at a factory that could build a ICBM is a valuable suppression technique to trade an expensive nuclear bomber for an even more expensive ICBM, typically preventing an opponent from building one in that case (which makes kamikaze even more potent of a setting, which AFAIK is somewhat often toggled to on for this map)

  • Moderators Admin

    @Panther ICBM can indeed perform bombing raids, but this is not relevant to the matter at hand. Therefore, I'll ignore such ability, from now on.

    Aside from bombing raiding, the ICBM, both when offending and when defending, is a suicide unit that fires before all other units, but after AA attacks (thus doesn't fire if shot down by AA), being able to target all targetable (non-targetable are only aaGun and factories, as usual in any games before v5) enemy units except other ICBM (an ICBM can never target other ICBM). All units taken as casualties or removed because of hits from ICBM are removed from the battle before they can fire back.

    Assuming using an ICBM on a territory containing one or more enemy ICBM and other targetable units, and that the territory has no aaGun units (or all AA defensive attacks miss), what should be the behaviour of defending ICBM.

    1. The defending ICBM don't fire, since they have no targets, but are lost anyway for being a suicide unit involved in a battle (this appears to be the program's behaviour).

    2. The defending ICBM don't fire, since they have no targets, thus they don't suicide, thus surely survive the battle (as the territory is being attacked by ICBM only, that are unable to hit defending ICBM just like defending ICBM are unable to hit offending ones).

    3. The defending ICBM fire, despite having no targets, thus they suicide (while actually hitting nothing).

  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel @LaFayette Thank you for the explanation.

    I would tend to option 2. I would understand a "suicide unit" as being a unit that "commits suicide" by taking any 'fighting action'.
    In the given scenario the defending ICMB cannot take such an action (it is simply present), so there is nothing that would cause 'suicide'.

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