Proposal: Always-shown "Purchased Units" panel

LaFayette

Good point on the different contexts, in light of that suggestion I would lean towards the "placements" suggestion I made earlier. What are "units-to-place" other than "placements?" I think it's a more direct name for the same.

At this particular moment though we probably should put a pin in the naming and agree if the feature is ready to move beyond beta-testing, or if there any problems with the latest that must be fixed first.

On a larger scale, the next set of fixes/problems I think are probably with the unit scroller, for now we should focus on this new feature to be sure it's ready.

Cernel

@LaFayette I think "Placements" would be very unclear, and actually makes me think you are referring to your placement actions.

Strict pos2 terminology for what at this feature would be "Units held in the inventory".

Alexei Svitkine

Other ideas:

"Reinforcements"
"Produced"

prastle

@Alexei-Svitkine Produced Units or maybe Produced Reinforcements. Both terms help explain the other but perhaps to long? Either way if two words can be used Produced Units is probably the most correct. Any thoughts here @redrum ?

redrum

@prastle honestly most of the suggestions are fine IMO. "Units to place" is pretty accurate and covers all the various situations. Purchases or purchases units is probably fine as well even though you can have triggered or free units to place as well.

Cernel

@redrum said in Proposal: Always-shown "Purchased Units" panel:

Purchases or purchases units is probably fine as well even though you can have triggered or free units to place as well.

I already said it, but (even if all units to be placed would be always purchased) the other wrong item for any such terms is the fact that now that panel has also taken over what was called the "Units left to place:" insert, listed before any "Placements", in the "Actions" panel, during placement. If you would call this new panel something like "Purchased Units", that would make no sense with the fact that, during placement, you would see those units progressively decreasing in number, the more you place them. During placement, you would, then, see in the action tab that you have, for example, 5 placed units and 5 purchased units, and what you should understand, from that, is that you placed all your purchased units, not only half of them!

The problem of wrongly assuming all units in the inventory must have been purchased can be circumvented by calling those units, for example, "Produced Units", instead of "Purchased Units", or whatever that is at least not clearly referring to some specific actions or phases, but this would not address this second problem I mentioned.

Cernel

@redrum said in Proposal: Always-shown "Purchased Units" panel:

@prastle honestly most of the suggestions are fine IMO. "Units to place" is pretty accurate and covers all the various situations.

To be clearer, it should be "Units to place" when you are not in the placement phase and "Units left to place" or "Remaining units to place" when you are.

Cernel

Some decent options, from my point of view, with what is in between parentheses meant to be present during placement, but not otherwise:
"Units (left) to place"
"Units waiting for placement"
"Units in inventory"
"Held units"
"Units held in inventory"
"Units (left) to mobilize"
"Unplaced units"
"Units under production"

Cernel

@Cernel A visual example of what I said:

What would you understand, if that panel called "Units to Place" would be, instead, called "Purchased Units"? What I would understand is that I purchased 4 units and placed all of them, while, instead, I purchased 8 units, and placed half of them.

prastle

@Cernel gd point cer

LaFayette

Let's put a hold on the naming discussion, there are more important elements to consider for right now. Keep the big picture in mind guys.

LaFayette

We need feedback if this feature is ready to go out from behind the 'beta' testing flag and if there are any other mechanical problems that should be fixed. I suspect this is ready for prime time and then we can discuss the finer details.

Cernel

I'm playing with the new stuff, and, sorry, but, maybe it's the abit, but I'm so irritated by the fact that the "Units to Place" during placement now is at the bottom. Previously, you would have seen the units left to place right at the top, and this felt much better. Now, each time I go to placement I feel like I have no units to place (and sometimes for a moment I wonder I didn't purchase anything), then I recall that now I have to look at the bottom, and then again upwards as the actions are made.

Though the fact that I have been used to see them there may be the main reason why I feel I need them there. Not sure if I can get eventually used to this new disposition and I'm curious if anybody else is bothered.

Also, I have to say I virtually never look at this panel, but, right now, I'm playtesting a 270BC mod against myself, so it's not a very busy game.

Hepps

@Cernel Looks as though you bought 8 and had placed 4 so far.

As long as the count goes down while you are actually placing units during the placement the name seems fine.

Frostion

I have tested out this feature and here are my thoughts (copied over from another thread )

It it OK if this unplaced unit information is shown throughout the players steps and other phases than placement. But when the player has his placement phase, I feel very annoyed having to look down in the buttom right corner of the screen to see what I still need to place. On this tab/during this step I would prefer unplaced unit be displayed where it used to, above already finished placements. The reason is, that unplaced units are during this step the most important info and player eyes would like it to be near minimap, "done" buttons. Anyone else have experiences, feelings and opinions on this?

I think @Cernel feels the same.

LaFayette

Bump on this topic:

consideration to move this to the top of the action bar during place units
consideration to rename the text 'placements'. I know it does not 100% match, but IMO it's better to have something that 95% matches and uses words that people would want to use. I certainly call this panel the "placements panel", and not the "units to place panel", which strikes me as very annoyingly wordy

Cernel

@LaFayette said in Proposal: Always-shown "Purchased Units" panel:

consideration to rename the text 'placements'. I know it does not 100% match, but IMO it's better to have something that 95% matches and uses words that people would want to use. I certainly call this panel the "placements panel", and not the "units to place panel", which strikes me as very annoyingly wordy

I don't like "placements", as that is already used to define the "place on gameboard" actions you made. I gave a set of alternatives to "units to place", despite the fact that I believe that name is good:

@Cernel said in Proposal: Always-shown "Purchased Units" panel:

Some decent options, from my point of view, with what is in between parentheses meant to be present during placement, but not otherwise:
"Units (left) to place"
"Units waiting for placement"
"Units in inventory"
"Held units"
"Units held in inventory"
"Units (left) to mobilize"
"Unplaced units"
"Units under production"

Of course, the "units" part can be omitted. For example, the box can be just called "Under Production".

simon33

In 1.9 it has "Units left to place:". Seems fine to me. Clear and unambiguous. I never thought it was annoyingly wordy. I suppose above that it has "Italians place" as a heading. Done button is between.

If it isn't broke...

Frostion

I will be pretty strange if it is to shuffle between top and buttom, depending on if it is placement phase or not. I hope this is not the case.

If this is the case, I would suggest an alternative solution. Have the current display method in right sidebar only show during the player's purchase/place phase (at top ofcours). Pursue the mini-icons implementation bellow the mini map and have one of them be "Unplaced Units" (I can make the icon) This icon could open up an informing window containing unplaced units, if there are any and the player wants to look at them out of the purchase/placement phase. It could be greyed out, blank or something if there are no units. Or a pop-up saying this.

BTW: I think the terms "Unplaced Units" is the most precise and short, if there is a need to change the term. I feel that the word "Placements" more refers to the acts done when placing or the areas/points where placements have already been done.

Cernel

@simon33 Don't you think that "Units left to place" is really a good definition only when you are in the placement phase itself, as it implies you are doing what is left to do? Wouldn't it sound strange to be, for example, in the Combat Move phase and have a panel called "Units left to place", like if you were right in the process of doing that (placing units)? That is why, in my suggestions, I pointed out that, if so, the name would have to be "Units left to place" during the placement phase and "Units to place" in any other moments, during your turn, instead.

@Frostion "Unplaced Units" has maybe the mild issue that units thus called in TripleA are usually only those that you have in your inventory because you didn't place them during a previous placement phase (but having any such units should be very rare, legally, as before v3 they were always lost, while from v4 onwards they are supposed to be refunded, thus v3 is the only ruleset that allows retaining unplaced units, but overpurchase is virtually impossible, since TripleA gives you warning, and you are obliged to always place anything you can, so that can only happen if you purchased more than you can possibly place, and I've never seen this actually happening, in a rules compliant way, in even a single one of all WWIIv3 games I played (it might very rarely happen that you would want not to place something you purchased, because of dice results or previous miscalculations, but the rules (albeit not the program itself) oblige you to do so, anyways)).

In particular, we have this property, that can be offered as editable settings to the user:
Unplaced units live when not placed

However the "unplaced" part here is completely redundant, as that property could have been just "Units live when not placed", and the "live" part is a weird way to say that they are kept in inventory.

Of course, as being one of my suggestions, I'm fine with "Unplaced Units", but I think "Units (Left) to Place" is clearer and unambiguous, especially for people new to the game.