Drop: Substance UI "Look and Feel"?

[redrum]

@Hepps Currently, all the themes available are default themes (we didn't make or design them). Not sure that I know the answer on how much effort it would be to either create our own custom theme or modify one of the existing ones. I think the hope here is we can use one of the available ones that is maybe similar to the old default one that we'd like to retire.

[Hepps]

@redrum So then am I to understand the existing themes are all bright?

[redrum]

@Hepps It does appear on the non-substance options are on the lighter side. I think the best solution here if we do want to move forward removing substance UI would be to customize the "Nimbus" theme to have darker colors as its probably the nicest looking (here is the default Nimbus that we could make darker):

@Frostion Did you try out the "Nimbus" theme?

@LaFayette Thoughts on a darker version of "Nimbus" as the default? If we are looking to replace this anyways does it make more sense to just leave substance L&F for now?

[Hepps]

@redrum That seems decent...if it could be darkened a little it seems like it would work.

[Frostion]

@redrum The Nimbus theme would also look good if darkened (for the people wanting darkness I have no idea what kind of files the themes are made up of, but might it be as simple as to scan the files for hex colour codes? And then alter them? The light grey of this theme seems to be color #D6D9DF, if this is the right track.

Anyway, the Nimbus theme has some strange looking scroll bars. You can see them if you go to the "select map" windows, and also in the bottom of the "view history" frame.

I think the Nimbus theme has wider scroll bars than the standard theme has been using and maybe all other themes too. I have seen you devs fix the minimum sizes of frames, alter margins, spacings etc. So fixing scroll bar widths would hopefully be possible. I would guess the Nimbus scroll bars are made to need a fixed width available, so that the scrolling button are fully displayed, and currently Triplea is not set to follow that width. As a side effect, if it got fixed/adjusted, then other themes might look weird. And then I would again suggest to aim for 1 Triplea theme, with a few colour options/variations.

[Hepps]

@Frostion Here you go. Just as a concept.... I know everyone is going to want my Avatar as the back drop.

This was really more just about examining a darker background colour and having a buttons the same width.

[Frostion]

@Hepps Well, seems like most things are possible That's a great start.
Tell me if you need me to make some PNG files with menu titles like in my mock up pictures in my previous post.

[Hepps]

@Frostion I don't know if a typewriter font is necessarily the way to go since we want to emulate buttons.... But if we are creating Headings... I like the typewriter font and then do it on a paper background.

[Cernel]

@Frostion said in Drop: Substance UI "Look and Feel"?:

I have testes out the new default theme that was chosen automatically by TripleA_1.9.0.0.6112.

What was that?

I've installed and started .6115 and the default I have is still the same SubstanceGraphiteLookAndFeel for me (or at least I guess it is the same as old, as it looks the same).

And if I click on Reset To Default, it goes to "SubstanceGraphiteLookAndFeel".

?

@redrum said in Drop: Substance UI "Look and Feel"?:

@Cernel There are still lots of options.

The options no substance I have are:

Metal
Nimbus
Motif
Windows
WindowsClassic

So, total 5, which would mean the default and 4 alternatives, Is this all? Not saying that are too few; just wondering I'm missing something, since you said "lots". Are the two windows available for whatever other systems too?

How can I know what is the new default if for me it is still the old?

[Cernel]

@redrum Why metal is called metal? It is just almost pure white.

Anyways, as a matter of first impression, I dislike them all, or at least they look to me much worse than current.

If I must name a favourite, as a matter of first impression and colour, I would say the only bearable one is "Motif".

Anyway, that one is weird about the buttons and stuff (just try it yourself, I guess you'll see), but the main annoiance is that all the buttons and stuff are so very small. Also the politics screen looks very bad in that one.

So, at the end, all considered, I agree that "Nimbus" is the best all around.

Problem! When I click on the purchase screen in any games it opens the good one only after you close an initial empty pointless one. This happens both with "Motif" and "Nimbus". Do you or anybody else have this problem too (I guess not you)?

[Cernel]

I actually like and approve that in the "Territory" tab the writings are so small. That minimises the space taken by stuff like "Current Owner: AustrianEmpire" and leaves more room to display the units.
So this is a thing that I prefer over current.
Also, the small text allows reducing the right bar more, as long as the minimap is small enough, allowing more room for the board, which is good too.
So, I'm personally in favour to the very small writings of the "Nimbus" theme.
Another thing is that the notes (Help/Game Notes) look better on white (it is customisable, like in the case of NWO and WAW, but most maps don't).

So I think the two main problem of "Nimbus" are that purchase bug (anybody else?) and the fact that it is too bright, aside from the notes display and such, that it is fine being bright.

[Frostion]

@Cernel I don't know what the white theme I tested and took some screen shots of was named. But I guess if you looked themes through you have seen it by now.
When I deinstalled a version TripleA_1.9.0.0.5somthing and installed TripleA_1.9.0.0.6112, then my theme was automatically changed to the white theme. I have never previously changed themes before, not even tried it out.
I have Also seen some weird stuff happening with buttons and windows in relation to changing themes.

[Cernel]

@Frostion So you don't have that purchase bug?

[Cernel]

Also, I believe that only a very small fraction of users ever change options or look after them at all or even realise they could.
So, I warn you that customisation doesn't mean much for most, as they would just use the default only, even if they hate it.
Of course, this is just my general impression, but I'm fairly sure of this.
So, whatever it is the default, it is going to be over 90% what it is at all, in my opinion.
Meaning that, when we talk of the default theme, we talk of over 90%; when we talk of anything else, we talk of less than 10%. Pretty sure of this. Just saying.

[Cernel]

@redrum Also, I see that in "Nimbus" the lobby chatlog is pure white.

That I definitely believe won't look good to most.

[prastle]

@Hepps I can see we are going to have your avatar everywhere!

[ssoloff]

@Cernel said:

Problem! When I click on the purchase screen in any games it opens the good one only after you close an initial empty pointless one.

Unfortunately, it's a regression not related to any particular theme: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/2184

[prastle]

@ssoloff yes thanks for working on it! GL but i have faith

[Cernel]

@redrum I'm using the "Nimbul" and, have to say, it is not bad, and can be default. I actually like the small letters: leaves more room for the good stuff. I particularly like that the small letters allow for having thin left and right sidebars (tho the right one requires an accordingly small smallmap).

I think the only definite problem is that the lobby chatlog is pure white, but I think it is bearable, for me (it is just like reading notepad or somesuch), tho it is going to be highly subjective.

Also, the other things that are pure white, like the history left sidebar of game notes, would be better if being silver coloured, as the left history bar being pure white is kinda distracting, but all bearable and acceptable, I believe.

So, I think you can go ahead having the current "Nimbul" as default, already, removing the current default as an option, but I still suggest you opening a dedicated topic in forum clearly about this default change, maybe with a poll. It is not easy to understand what this topic is or is not about.

[LaFayette]

Lots of good feedback. Sounds like Nimbu is the winner for new default.

Thanks all for being receptive to dropping Substance. To clear up one item of confusion, the Look and Feel (L&F) are all either java built in or come as part of the Substance library. I'm not aware of a way to customize them further. I suspect the option to select L&F were initially offered largely because it was relatively easy to do so and the default L&F is not the best.

It's not trivial to change L&F cleanly without restart, I'm looking at ways in the background to allow a preview. I do suspect that will take a back seat to more pressing features, it does seem L&F is not a heavily used feature.

@Frostion many of the layout problems you pointed out are brand new and unrelated to "Look and Feel" , but it's all excellent feedback and good catches! You're a shoe-in for the testing group, that is exactly the stuff we would want, you should join.

@Cernel "Metal" I think is just the name used for the OS default, "metal" referring to your machine having metal and not being a virtual machine, it's a very sysadmin wy to refer to a physical computer (that has been my best guess).